How many Americans deaths will Trump be directly responsible for due to COVID-45

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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I don’t have to offer you anything. You’re making the claim, you back it up.

Are you saying that Obama’s response was similarly incompetent because he didn’t implement social distancing and should have? Just trying to make sure I’m getting the basis for your claims. Are there any other things you think he should have done or not done?



It’s not important what I think he did, you’re making the claim, not me.
Dude Atreus is like that other poster who only posted his opinion with no links and nothing to back up his outlandish opinioon, until he was called out and told to post links or quit posting, to which he wuit posting in that other thread! That is what Atreus is doing! Because he knows there are no links that support his premise!
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
I don’t have to offer you anything. You’re making the claim, you back it up.

I made no claim at the outset. I asked a question, whether Obama was responsible for the cost of the swine flu outbreak, since Trump was allegedly responsible for the C19 outbreak.

If your answer is no, then you need to say why. But you've avoided answering that directly.

Are you saying that Obama’s response was similarly incompetent because he didn’t implement social distancing and should have? Just trying to make sure I’m getting the basis for your claims. Are there any other things you think he should have done or not done?

I don't think Obama's response was incompetent in handling the outbreak. As far as I can tell he left the heavy lifting to the CDC, as well he should've. But if I were a hopeless partisan, I could scour the web for actions which I could interpret in the worst possible light, under the pretext of calling him incompetent.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I don't think Obama's response was incompetent in handling the outbreak. As far as I can tell he left the heavy lifting to the CDC, as well he should've. But if I were a hopeless partisan, I could scour the web for actions which I could interpret in the worst possible light, under the pretext of calling him incompetent.
Thats is the point...you would literally have to scout the web and you would find notrhing!
Yet with Trump you don`t even need to scout the web......it is so obvious...
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,129
18,602
146
I made no claim at the outset. I asked a question, whether Obama was responsible for the cost of the swine flu outbreak, since Trump was allegedly responsible for the C19 outbreak.

If your answer is no, then you need to say why. But you've avoided answering that directly.



I don't think Obama's response was incompetent in handling the outbreak. As far as I can tell he left the heavy lifting to the CDC, as well he should've. But if I were a hopeless partisan, I could scour the web for actions which I could interpret in the worst possible light, under the pretext of calling him incompetent.

I remember when Obama called H1N1 the Republican hoax, claimed it was just like the common cold, and made plans to dump money into saving corporations not based in the US, all the while encouraging millions of loyal followers to go about their lives as usual. This was a right after he got done gutting government agencies for 3 years.

Oh, We all remember.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,642
136
I made no claim at the outset. I asked a question, whether Obama was responsible for the cost of the swine flu outbreak, since Trump was allegedly responsible for the C19 outbreak.

If your answer is no, then you need to say why. But you've avoided answering that directly.

I would love to answer this question but I need information from you first. I’ve asked you over and over and you just keep refusing. This is because you never actually wanted an answer to begin with, of course.

I don't think Obama's response was incompetent in handling the outbreak. As far as I can tell he left the heavy lifting to the CDC, as well he should've. But if I were a hopeless partisan, I could scour the web for actions which I could interpret in the worst possible light, under the pretext of calling him incompetent.
[/QUOTE]

But you do apparently believe Obama and Trump’s responses were similar. Are you instead trying to claim that Trump’s response to this has been competent? Really?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,642
136
Dude Atreus is like that other poster who only posted his opinion with no links and nothing to back up his outlandish opinioon, until he was called out and told to post links or quit posting, to which he wuit posting in that other thread! That is what Atreus is doing! Because he knows there are no links that support his premise!
Haha I’m very aware of what he’s trying to do. Basically he’s seeking to undermine criticism of Trump’s incompetence by insinuating it is due to partisanship and not that Trump has done anything wrong.

That’s why asking him to back up his stance is useful - we both know he can’t.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,517
15,399
136
...because of exactly what I just said. You're avoiding the question by asking for specifics you should offer me, not I you. If Obama is not to blame for 60 million infected by swine flu, but Trump is to blame for the 60,000 infected from C19, I'd like to know why that is.

Do you think Obama's response to swine flu was adequate, given the fact that 60 million Americans were infected and 10,000+ died? Why did Obama or other segments of government not implement social distancing as has happened under Trump, for example?



I'm not sure, as I don't recall much of what he did at all beyond declaring a national emergency in October 2009. What do you think he did?

It’s weird that you are trying to compare Obama’s response to trumps when you aren’t even aware of what Obama’s response was.

Don’t you think that in order to make your point you would need that information? Just imagine how much stronger and valid your point would be if you could point to specific failings by Obama to show how trump is no different.

So let’s explore your claim instead of blindly approving or dismissing trumps response to this pandemic.

Let’s start with what was Obama’s initial response. Can you post up a link to how he initially responded to the crisis?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
I would love to answer this question but I need information from you first. I’ve asked you over and over and you just keep refusing. This is because you never actually wanted an answer to begin with, of course.

I'm sorry but it's not incumbent upon me to make your case. If your answer is no, tell me why.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
...because of exactly what I just said. You're avoiding the question by asking for specifics you should offer me, not I you. If Obama is not to blame for 60 million infected by swine flu, but Trump is to blame for the 60,000 infected from C19, I'd like to know why that is.

Do you think Obama's response to swine flu was adequate, given the fact that 60 million Americans were infected and 10,000+ died? Why did Obama or other segments of government not implement social distancing as has happened under Trump, for example?



I'm not sure, as I don't recall much of what he did at all beyond declaring a national emergency in October 2009. What do you think he did?
You have been aske to support your position with facts and links .......you fail to do so!
When you are asked to support your position with links according to what I understand things to be you can play ignorant for only so long before you must provide support for your opinion!

You don`t skirt your opinion by attempting to pretend to be ignorant by saying -- m not sure, as I don't recall much of what he did at all beyond declaring a national emergency in October 2009. What do you think he did?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,517
15,399
136
I'm sorry but it's not incumbent upon me to make your case. If your answer is no, tell me why.

We’ve already made the case about trumps incompetence, you are the one that responded, “but Obama”. So it’s you that needs to show that Trumps response has been similar to Obama’s.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,642
136
I'm sorry but it's not incumbent upon me to make your case. If your answer is no, tell me why.

You're right, it's incumbent on you to make your case. You have insinuated that the responses of Trump and Obama are comparable. In this thread alone is listed dozens of catastrophic errors by Trump so if you want to make that case then you must identify what errors Obama made that are similar.

Again, this is YOUR argument, not mine. You asked me to answer a question and this is the information I need from you to answer it. Why do you keep refusing to supply it?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
We’ve already made the case about trumps incompetence, you are the one that responded, “but Obama”. So it’s you that needs to show that Trumps response has been similar to Obama’s.
nice try...you can`t reason with a child.....
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,129
18,602
146
I remember when Obama called H1N1 the Republican hoax, claimed it was just like the common cold, and made plans to dump money into saving corporations not based in the US, all the while encouraging millions of loyal followers to go about their lives as usual. This was a right after he got done gutting government agencies for 3 years.

Oh, We all remember.
We’ve already made the case about trumps incompetence, you are the one that responded, “but Obama”. So it’s you that needs to show that Trumps response has been similar to Obama’s.

You don't remember?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,642
136
We’ve already made the case about trumps incompetence, you are the one that responded, “but Obama”. So it’s you that needs to show that Trumps response has been similar to Obama’s.

Exactly. Atreus21 made the 'but Obama' argument and is now trying to demand everyone else disprove his argument, which is not how rational and logical discussion works.

You make a claim, you back it up.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,927
8,132
136
Was Obama responsible for the 10,000+ deaths which occurred during the swine flu outbreak?

Of course not.
Your lack of reading comprehension is showing, probably a symptom of more serious cognitive functions.

The questions is not how many will die, but how many MORE will die because of Trump's complete incompetence and indifference.

Additionaly every time you say "but Obama, or Clinton, or whomever" you are proving you don't have a point, nor facts to back it up. "BUT ..." is just a feeble excuse by someone that can't rationalize the reality that Trump is a narcissistic, mentally deranged, pathological liar.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,517
15,399
136
Exactly. Atreus21 made the 'but Obama' argument and is now trying to demand everyone else disprove his argument, which is not how rational and logical discussion works.

You make a claim, you back it up.

I’m willing to accept his claim if he can support it. Obama’s response could have been incompetent and the media could have simply brushed it under the rug but he’s going to have to bring some evidence to the table. The fact that he has admitted that he wasn’t even aware of what Obama’s response was doesn’t give me high hopes though.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,498
50,642
136
I’m willing to accept his claim if he can support it. Obama’s response could have been incompetent and the media could have simply brushed it under the rug but he’s going to have to bring some evidence to the table. The fact that he has admitted that he wasn’t even aware of what Obama’s response was doesn’t give me high hopes though.

I mean that's why I asked him from the beginning, I knew he had no idea what Obama had or had not done. Ironically, it turns out his argument seems entirely based on partisanship, haha.
 

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,255
2,272
136
People are saying Steven Miller is urging people with covid 19 to visit nursing homes.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,927
8,132
136
Given certain folks’ infatuation with all things Clinton and Obama, you bet your ass this thread would exist with a much more “Benghazi” tone.
No, it wouldn't need to. The office that was responsible to prepare for a pandemic would still be in place, filled with competent people, plus the fact Obama (and every other president for that matter) would have listened to the knowledgeable experts and heeded their advise., But no, we have this sick fuck that thinks this is all a plot to cause him to loose the election.

Hell you might even be smarter since you have clearly lost the ability of rational thought after 3 years of chest thumbing and lying his ass off.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,927
8,132
136
I remember when Obama called H1N1 the Republican hoax, claimed it was just like the common cold, and made plans to dump money into saving corporations not based in the US, all the while encouraging millions of loyal followers to go about their lives as usual. This was a right after he got done gutting government agencies for 3 years.

Oh, We all remember.
Prove it or STFU!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I remember when Obama called H1N1 the Republican hoax, claimed it was just like the common cold, and made plans to dump money into saving corporations not based in the US, all the while encouraging millions of loyal followers to go about their lives as usual. This was a right after he got done gutting government agencies for 3 years.

Oh, We all remember.
TRUMP: “For decades the @CDCgov looked at, and studied, its testing system, but did nothing about it. It would always be inadequate and slow for a large scale pandemic, but a pandemic would never happen, they hoped. President Obama made changes that only complicated things further… Their response to H1N1 Swine Flu was a full scale disaster, with thousands dying, and nothing meaningful done to fix the testing problem, until now. The changes have been made and testing will soon happen on a very large scale basis. All Red Tape has been cut, ready to go!”

THE FACTS: His newfound disdain for the CDC’s actions and his criticisms of Obama and Biden are based on a faulty description of what happened in the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, initially called “swine flu.”
 
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