How many did Bush save before the hurricane hit?

realsup

Senior member
Oct 10, 2004
357
0
0
Bush: Move To 'Safe Ground'

Nagin exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines have already canceled all flights.

Gov. Blanco said President George W. Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

Speaking Sunday, Bush said that he "cannot stress enough the dangers this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities."

"I urge all citizens to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground," he said.

WDSU meteorologist Dan Thomas said the dangers from the hurricane cannot be overstated.

"I've told some people in the newsroom, I think this is going to be the scariest moment of your life," he said.

Link


Good thing he pushed for action or else it could be even worse.


Also why didn't the Mayor or Gov. use these buses to help evacuate before the flooding?

Link to photo
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
91
I don't see that there's any way to know the answer to this.

It seems improbable to me that a large number of people left because of President Bush's message who would otherwise have stayed. Obviously if his statement saved lives, that's a good thing, but it hardly seems like an extraordinary act on his part, if that's what you're implying.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
I don't see that there's any way to know the answer to this.

It seems improbable to me that a large number of people left because of President Bush's message who would otherwise have stayed. Obviously if his statement saved lives, that's a good thing, but it hardly seems like an extraordinary act on his part, if that's what you're implying.

It's not an extraordinary act but prior to Bush's call neither the Louisiana Governor nor the New Orleans Mayor were pushing for evacuations. Even after all the calls they still only announced mandatory evacuations 24 hours before the hurricane hit. Lots of people obviously stayed but lots left after the mandatory evacuation call.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: DonVito
I don't see that there's any way to know the answer to this.

It seems improbable to me that a large number of people left because of President Bush's message who would otherwise have stayed. Obviously if his statement saved lives, that's a good thing, but it hardly seems like an extraordinary act on his part, if that's what you're implying.
I think the implication is that Bush had to coerce Nagin to evacuate. I've read the same thing:

Text

Mandatory evacuation ordered for New Orleans
8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT
The Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS (AP) ? In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

"There doesn't seem to be any relief in sight," Blanco said.

She said Interstate 10, which was converted Saturday so that all lanes headed one-way out of town, was total gridlock.

"We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Nagin said.

The storm surge most likely could topple the city's levee system, which protect it from surrounding waters of Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi River and marshes, the mayor said. The bowl-shaped city must pump water out during normal times, and the hurricane threatened pump power.

Previous hurricanes evacuations in New Orleans were always voluntary, because so many people don't have the means of getting out. Some are too poor and there is always a French Quarter full of tourists who get caught.

"This is a once in a lifetime event," the mayor said. "The city of New Orleans has never seen a hurricane of this magnitude hit it directly," the mayor said.

He told those who had to move to the Superdome to come with enough food for several days and with blankets. He said it will be a very uncomfortable place and encouraged everybody who could to get out.

Nagin said police and firefighters would spread out throughout the city sounding sirens and using bullhorns to tell residents to get out. He also said police would have the authority to comandeer any vehicle or building that could be used for evacuation or shelter.

The Superdome was already taking in people with special problems. It opened about 8 a.m. and people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks, began checking in.

In a neighborhood in central city, a group of residents sat on a porch. It was almost a party atmosphere.

"We're not evacuating," said Julie Paul, 57. "None of us have any place to go. We're counting on the Superdome. That's our lifesaver."

She said they'd spent the last couple of hurricanes there. They would wait for a friend who has a van to take them, because none has cars.

At a nearby gas station, Linda Young, 37, was tanking up her car.

"I'm really scared. I've been through hurricanes, but this one scares me. I think everybody needs to get out," she said.

She said they planned to leave Saturday but couldn't get gas, and didn't want to go without it, so got up early and got in a gas line.

In the suburbs, evacuations were under way.

"That sun is shining too bright for this to be happening," said Joyce Tillis, manager of the Holiday Inn Select at the airport in the suburbs as she called the more than 140 guests to tell them the hotel was under a mandatory evacuation. "It's too nice a day."

Tillis lives inside the flood zone in the community of Avondale. She said she called her three daughters and told them to get out. "If I'm stuck, I'm stuck," Tillis said. "I'd rather save my second generation if I can."
Yet certain people here claim Bush wasn't doing anything.

Edit: Queasy beat me to it.
 

blackwolf1975

Junior Member
Sep 2, 2005
18
0
0
While I think Bush is a complete fool for things like not truly supporting alternative fuels and using Jesus as an armpatch to win elections, I have to say this was not his fault. He said "Safe Ground" and somewhere else the system failed because what was to be "Safe" FAILED.

The levies and pumps not getting fixed, when this is done they need to look into where the system failed to get those fixed, and if it's a person or persons who prevented this from happening they need to be held RESPONSABLE for it. No free rides this round.
 

MicroChrome

Senior member
Mar 8, 2005
430
0
0
Does that make up for the ones he didn't save? Waiting 2-4 days to get his act together ot even draw up a plan? I would think having a plan would be better served then to call them and tell them what they already know. It's too late... Bush is still retarded ...

Anyone can make a phone call and tell you to prepare for the wose. No one knew it was going to hit. You can't predict the outcome. Tho, you can plan for the bad when it does hit. It's just sad how not on the ball our leaders our.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,128
2,167
136
Originally posted by: realsup
Also why didn't the Mayor or Gov. use these buses to help evacuate before the flooding?

Link to photo
Wow, if the local authorities had used all these school buses to transport the poor folks in the city to a safe location before the hurricane they wouldn't have been stuck like they are. That would have resolved the raging argument about the rich folks having the means to evacuate on their own but the poor folks could not and that's why they are stuck.

 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
91
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

I think the implication is that Bush had to coerce Nagin to evacuate. I've read the same thing:

That would indeed be interesting if true, but the article doesn't really say that it's so. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that the article doesn't say it.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs....cle?AID=/20050827/NEWS05/50827002/1002
Originally published August 27, 2005

NEW ORLEANS (AP) ? With forecasters saying Hurricane Katrina is likely to slam into southeast Louisiana or nearby on the Mississippi Gulf Coast early Monday, low-lying parishes called evacuations Saturday.

Skies were blue, with only a few clouds. That wasn?t likely to last. Katrina was a Category 3 storm with 115 mph winds, and likely to get stronger over the warm Gulf of Mexico, forecasters at the National Hurricane Center said.

?Right now, it looks like Louisiana is in line for a possible direct hit,? Gov. Kathleen Blanco said.

?We know that we?re going to take the brunt of it,? she said. ?It does not bode well for southeastern Louisiana.?

Mandatory or voluntary evacuations were called on Grand Isle, Louisiana?s only inhabited barrier island, and in the parishes of St. Charles, Lafourche, Terrebonne, Plaquemines and St. Bernard.

?We have good weather today and tomorrow. Now is the time to get your houses secured and get on out,? Steve Sirmon of St. Charles Parish told WWL-TV.

?This is not a test,? Mayor C. Ray Nagin said at a news conference. ?This is a Category Four.?

He said he would probably ask people to leave at daybreak Sunday.
Because the storm is so big, he said, the Superdome may be used as a shelter of last resort for people who do not have cars, and the bus system would set up pick-up points across the city.


People should ?start to look at their hurricane plans, get their supplies, get their medications in order, clean up storm drains and get ready. Because it looks as if we?re going to get hit,? he said.

At the Day Dream Inn on Grand Isle, owner Jeanette Gruboyianes (groo-buh-YAH-nees) wasn?t leaving. Most permanent residents don?t, she said.

?You have to have money to evavcuate. If you don?t have it, you ride out the storm,? she said. ?You know, at this juncture, all we can do is pray it doesn?t come this way and tear us up.?

Some houses have stood since 1896, she said. ?So by faith and maybe a little stupidity ? because we are intelligent people ? we have to ride the storm.?

Hurricane Katrina Takes Aim at New Orleans
By Cris Bergman
Aug 27, 2005
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726449.shtml
President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday as Hurricane Katrina draws closer to New Orleans. ''We're strongly advising citizens to leave at this time,'' New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin said Saturday afternoon, stopping short of ordering a mandatory evacuation for most of the below-sea-level city.

However, the mayor did issue mandatory evacuation orders for those living in the lowest-lying neighborhoods.

''We want everyone to not panic, but to take this very seriously. Every projection still has it hitting New Orleans in some form or fashion,'' he said.
Looks like the call to evacuate was set to be made before the Propagandist called.
 

GamerExpress

Banned
Aug 28, 2005
1,674
1
0
OK, sure he did urge people to leave, I am sure any other administration would have done the same thing.

I love how you right wing folks use everything to defend the administration, it's like you have blinders on to shield you from the gross mistakes of the administration.

THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE LEFT IN THESE AREAS DID NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO EVACUATE (maybe you can read that with your blinders on). So I guess since they are the lower classes of society it's deemed ok by the right wing peoples to just leave them there for a week with no relief effort, I guess you peoples think that since they are black why not just let them kill each other off right????

You FREAKO Bush Administration supporters keep on supporting him, I WILL LAUGH AT YOU AND THE ADMINISTRATION AS BUSH GOES DOWN AS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY.

Just so you understand this, I am a registered independent, and I choose to make my decisions based on the person's actions and what they stand for. I think someone who is locked into one party or the other is not a free thinker, this is part of the problem in this country today. Based on the Bush administration why would anyone vote for him, look at his track record as well as his Right wing christian dictatorship (that's what it's turning into people).

I could go on for ever, and I am sure I will get flamed for this but as much as you people don't agree with what I said it's great that we still have the right to argue these things.....Thank god Bush can't run again in '08, another 4 years of this sh!t and who knows if we would still have this right.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
I don't see that there's any way to know the answer to this.

It seems improbable to me that a large number of people left because of President Bush's message who would otherwise have stayed. Obviously if his statement saved lives, that's a good thing, but it hardly seems like an extraordinary act on his part, if that's what you're implying.

Standard disclaimer
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
A large part of the issue is people just don't believe the worst can happen. It'd take a pretty dire warning for me to abandon my home and all my worldly possessions even if it was at the threat of drowning or starving to death if I miraculously survived the first 24 hours. I just don't see people leaving because of what the President said might happen.

There's really not much the authorities could've done in the last week or so to evacuate the city any better, I think - short of ordering people onto buses with guns pointed to their heads. FEMA messed up, the local authorities haven't handled things very well, and obviously the levee construction wasn't up to snuff. All of that however can be looked at later when everyone is safely clear of the danger zone.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
It's a free country and people have the right to do what they want. Nobody ever thinks it's going to happen to them. I don't see what else the local authoorites could have done except declare marshall law and forced everybody out. Even if they did that, how long would it have taken to bus 300,000 people out of harms way and what safe place could they have put them to ride out the storm?

After the fact, it's obcvious to anyone that this was a disaster beyond the scope of anything we've seen in a long time. Worse the the WTC, worse then anything I can think of in my memory? What took the Fed's so long to do anything? I put the major portion of the blame squarely on Bush's shoulders. The buck stops there. He wanted the power, he's got the power, and he failed to act. What a miserable excuse for a leader.
 

luigi1

Senior member
Mar 26, 2005
455
0
0
People ride these things out. They allways have and I fear they allways will. I dont blame george for the storm, nor did he cause the levy to break. Weather they had the means or not, weather they tryed to leave or not. When the city flooded they were in a diaster and needed help. Its the fact it took 5 days to get a guardsman on the street corner and food and water to the peaple and start getting them out of there. Emergency management is a federal responcibility and george is gonna get blamed for the sloth in the responce.
 

mc6809e

Member
Aug 31, 2005
35
0
0
It seems improbable to me that a large number of people left because of President Bush's message who would otherwise have stayed. Obviously if his statement saved lives, that's a good thing, but it hardly seems like an extraordinary act on his part, if that's what you're implying.


Bush saved some people by kicking the governor in the ass to get her to declare a mandatory evacuation.

Mandatory evacuation ordered for New Orleans
8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT
The Associated Press


NEW ORLEANS (AP) ? In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

Why the hell should the president have to call the governor to ask for an evacuation? By Friday night the NHC had this storm going straight through New Orleans and yet the president has to personally call those in charge and say "hey, why the hell are you still there?"
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,128
2,167
136
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...



 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,128
2,167
136
Originally posted by: yllus
A large part of the issue is people just don't believe the worst can happen. It'd take a pretty dire warning for me to abandon my home and all my worldly possessions even if it was at the threat of drowning or starving to death if I miraculously survived the first 24 hours. I just don't see people leaving because of what the President said might happen.

There's really not much the authorities could've done in the last week or so to evacuate the city any better, I think - short of ordering people onto buses with guns pointed to their heads. FEMA messed up, the local authorities haven't handled things very well, and obviously the levee construction wasn't up to snuff. All of that however can be looked at later when everyone is safely clear of the danger zone.
I grew up and lived most of my life in the New Orleans area. You're right about people not wanting to leave. I have been through every hurricane since Betsy until I left 10 years ago.

 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...

Not every city just ones with leeves built for cat 3 storms but a cat 5 on the way. Everyone knew the leeves would fail if the storm hit. Bush as the commander and chimp should have made sure the ary corps of engineers had a plan in place.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,128
2,167
136
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...

Not every city just ones with leeves built for cat 3 storms but a cat 5 on the way. Everyone knew the leeves would fail if the storm hit. Bush as the commander and chimp should have made sure the ary corps of engineers had a plan in place.
Everyone knew some levees could fail in a cat 5 hurricane well before Bush was president. Your partisan statement makes it sound like Bush is the only pres / administration responsible. BTW, according to links in some of these hurricane related threads the part of the 17th street canal that broke had already been upgraded but it still failed so I guess Bush should have personally reviewed the COE plans to make sure the upgrades were adequate. :roll:


 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...

Not every city just ones with leeves built for cat 3 storms but a cat 5 on the way. Everyone knew the leeves would fail if the storm hit. Bush as the commander and chimp should have made sure the ary corps of engineers had a plan in place.
Everyone knew some levees could fail in a cat 5 hurricane well before Bush was president. Your partisan statement makes it sound like Bush is the only pres / administration responsible. BTW, according to links in some of these hurricane related threads the part of the 17th street canal that broke had already been upgraded but it still failed so I guess Bush should have personally reviewed the COE plans to make sure the upgrades were adequate. :roll:

No bush should have made sure when the hurricain was forcasted to hit NO that they were ready to fix any leeve breaches and deal with the flooding.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Originally posted by: yllus
A large part of the issue is people just don't believe the worst can happen. It'd take a pretty dire warning for me to abandon my home and all my worldly possessions even if it was at the threat of drowning or starving to death if I miraculously survived the first 24 hours. I just don't see people leaving because of what the President said might happen.

There's really not much the authorities could've done in the last week or so to evacuate the city any better, I think - short of ordering people onto buses with guns pointed to their heads. FEMA messed up, the local authorities haven't handled things very well, and obviously the levee construction wasn't up to snuff. All of that however can be looked at later when everyone is safely clear of the danger zone.
What? I still blame Carter for Harry Truman (click link, not the president).

 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,128
2,167
136
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...

Not every city just ones with leeves built for cat 3 storms but a cat 5 on the way. Everyone knew the leeves would fail if the storm hit. Bush as the commander and chimp should have made sure the ary corps of engineers had a plan in place.
Everyone knew some levees could fail in a cat 5 hurricane well before Bush was president. Your partisan statement makes it sound like Bush is the only pres / administration responsible. BTW, according to links in some of these hurricane related threads the part of the 17th street canal that broke had already been upgraded but it still failed so I guess Bush should have personally reviewed the COE plans to make sure the upgrades were adequate. :roll:

No bush should have made sure when the hurricain was forcasted to hit NO that they were ready to fix any leeve breaches and deal with the flooding.
I'm really trying to follow your logic here. So how would he have done that? Maybe call the local officials and COE to make sure they put portable concrete barriers near the levees and have helos on standby in the hurricane to move them into place? Also keep in mind that you can't predict exactly where the levee breach will occur under these harsh weather conditions and once it does occur, it's almost impossible to fix while the water is rushing out. Anyway, local officals and COE are normally the ones initially responsible for preparing for this type disaster. Now if they had called the pres and asked for specific resources and assistance for the levees and he didn't respond then I would be all over him. Sometimes you gotta ask for what you need. If you are going to place blame you will have a long list.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to add my Andrew story. I was still in NOLA back in 1992. I was one of the last tech support people for a data center in New Orleans east that housed critical computer systems for the regional telco. I had to be onsite during the hurricane. One of the possible scenarios for Andrew was that if it went in a certain direction the winds would cause the water in Lake Ponchartrain to be pushed south OVER the levees and flood all areas of East Jefferson and Orleans Parishes up to 20 feet. Luckily that did not happen but it could have and no one would have been able to do anything to the levee to prevent it immediately before the hurricane hit. Not even the president. Mother Nature can be a real Biatch sometimes.

 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Lanyap
Originally posted by: Spencer278
How many billions of dollars and lives where lost because bush didn't have in place a plan to fix leeves as soon as they broke?
Wow, that's a smart statement. So every president is supposed to individually plan disaster relief for every city in every state and make sure every levee system in the country has supplies to fix a levee break? DOH...

Not every city just ones with leeves built for cat 3 storms but a cat 5 on the way. Everyone knew the leeves would fail if the storm hit. Bush as the commander and chimp should have made sure the ary corps of engineers had a plan in place.
Everyone knew some levees could fail in a cat 5 hurricane well before Bush was president. Your partisan statement makes it sound like Bush is the only pres / administration responsible. BTW, according to links in some of these hurricane related threads the part of the 17th street canal that broke had already been upgraded but it still failed so I guess Bush should have personally reviewed the COE plans to make sure the upgrades were adequate. :roll:

No bush should have made sure when the hurricain was forcasted to hit NO that they were ready to fix any leeve breaches and deal with the flooding.
I'm really trying to follow your logic here. So how would he have done that? Maybe call the local officials and COE to make sure they put portable concrete barriers near the levees and have helos on standby in the hurricane to move them into place? Also keep in mind that you can't predict exactly where the levee breach will occur under these harsh weather conditions and once it does occur, it's almost impossible to fix while the water is rushing out. Anyway, local officals and COE are normally the ones initially responsible for preparing for this type disaster. Now if they had called the pres and asked for specific resources and assistance for the levees and he didn't respond then I would be all over him. Sometimes you gotta ask for what you need. If you are going to place blame you will have a long list.

This is a thread about bush. If you want to start a new thread asking how many people were saved by the local goverment calling for an evacuation I would ask the same qustion.

I'm sure that the heavy lift helecoptors have a long enough range so that the supplies don't need to be right on top of breach to be helpful. Bush should have positioned every vessial that could help resucue people or repair the leeves near NO so that they could be deployed as soon as it was safe.
 
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