How much could a person make in a day buying and selling stocks?

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Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
I remembering trying to dabble in day trading. Trends are easy to see...on yesterdays price chart.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Look at the stats - the vast majority of day traders lose their money. I'm sure a couple win, but most of them lose.

This, but some folks think they are in the camp who will win.

Long run investing has proven the most reliable way to make money in equities, even surpassing most fund managers.

Buy and hold.

There will always be the guy who goes for it on options on a stock like tesla with 50k and wakes up to a million bucks in a year. It's just more than likely not you or your 50k.

Beyond that, today's markets have been engineered away from fundamentals. So most rules and correlations and pretty much everything can be tossed out if you're investing/trading today.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
Beyond that, today's markets have been engineered away from fundamentals. So most rules and correlations and pretty much everything can be tossed out if you're investing/trading today.

That's one of the things I try to tell people who want to invest - the stock is based not on the company performance, but on where investors put their money.

That's why, for example, even if you think bitcoin is a horrible scam it could make sense to buy it - if it's going to catch on for investors, and sell when it does.

On the other hand companies who do great can see their stock go down. And yes the system is largely rigged for the big guys to drain from it.
 

Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
71
The problem is there is way to much insider trading. To many people conspiring inside and outside to make or break companies or manipulate their stock. People with billions who can change the stock price on a whim. They also have computers and software that knows the human psyche. They know the breaking points and fear points. I remember reading about a company that said they had hired over 100 people with PHD's to create their trading software. It can very much be a psychological game and they have the computers, inside connections, and money to manipulate the market how they see fit.

Some people can play off that and learn the system. But it's only a matter of time before the system changes and they suck you dry. How many times have we heard "I used to day trade and had a lot of money before I lost it all and started doing _________ (insert new company name here).

Isn't it something like only 10% of stocks are actually owned by normal people? The rest is hedge funds and companies. To much conspiring to play that game.

I was watching a solar stock once and people were talking about it. They said "it's going to close at this amount". And sure enough is closed at that amount on the penny. And it wasn't something small or close to start. It was a massive drop. If you watch stocks to over a period you will see it start to drop or gain, you'll be like why?? What seems like no reason. Then all the sudden you'll hear an announcement one day in the news paper. The KNEW that announcement was coming even though it should have been secret. The whole system is total corrupt crap.

This. There are basically two kinds of stock traders. Insider traders and suckers.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
The fastest way to make a small fortune day trading is to start with a large fortune...
 

baydude

Senior member
Sep 13, 2011
814
81
91
Why would someone sell if their stock goes down a few percent within a day? Why not just hold until it goes back up?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
Been there, done that. GasX (post 57) is correct. To the OP I suggest looking up studies of the overall profitability of daytraders-the vast majority lose money.

baydude: because little losses can turn into big ones quickly, especially if you are trading on the margin-which most daytraders do to maximize their wins.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,401
386
126
Why would someone sell if their stock goes down a few percent within a day? Why not just hold until it goes back up?

Can you guarantee it will come back? Nope. Imagine you bought FCX at ~$60 around Jan 1, 2011 because you felt Chinese demand for copper was going to increase further. Shortly after that date, it falls 7 bucks in a few weeks. Look at its chart. Should you have held after this several percentage drop? No way. If you look at the price today it is half what it was in 2011. The same can be said of APPL at $700. You might say never buy a stock at such a high valuation; however both AAPL and FCX where still pretty cheap at their peaks in terms of TTM P/E .

Thats why day-trading is so risky. You just can't hold a losing stock, because then not only are you losing value, you are losing opportunity to be in other stocks.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
That's one of the things I try to tell people who want to invest - the stock is based not on the company performance, but on where investors put their money.

That's why, for example, even if you think bitcoin is a horrible scam it could make sense to buy it - if it's going to catch on for investors, and sell when it does.

On the other hand companies who do great can see their stock go down. And yes the system is largely rigged for the big guys to drain from it.

Yep, 100% on these points. Particularly so in the short term which is where many people have been pushed recently as their savings rates shrunk to near 0% and they've had to move into riskier assets to gain a return.

Long term the schemes and "riggedness" of the markets get shaken off, but short term it can shake off the strongest of hands (or make them rich). The person doing the shaking has the huge upper hand in this situation.

Of course the problem is savings rates being pushed way, way, way down as a method of getting people (suckers) into the game.
 
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Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
The transactions today occur in milliseconds, so you can't possibly keep up with what is happening in "real time." So, only computers can truly handle this as ticker tape just doesn't cut it.


But, to answer your question: about tree fiddy.
Exactly.
You've got this project to spend a few hundred million dollars to shave a few milliseconds off their ping time, or people spending millions of dollars so that they get data 2 seconds sooner than the rest of the market does.
Hundreds of millions of dollars in trades can easily be done in well under a second.

These people react to trends before you would even be able to see them.

In the time it would take you to load a page of MSN Money, they could have traded a billion dollars of stock, and already turned a $10M profit. Meanwhile, you've just started to scroll down the page to begin to read it.


At what point in the trading chain does microseconds matter? Network latency is still measured in milliseconds, right?
Milliseconds are made of microseconds.

They're just worth a lot less money right now.

But hey, if your trade request got processed that tiny bit faster than the other one, well, yours was first, even if the computer system's default time reporting system only goes out to 3 decimal places.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,841
5,456
136
Most day trading is gambling rather than investing. I don't recommend it.

The stock market in general is basically gambling. Even if you bought an index fund, there's no guarantee that 10-20 years from now it'd be worth anything.

Isn't it something like only 10% of stocks are actually owned by normal people? The rest is hedge funds and companies. To much conspiring to play that game.

I think it's closer to 30-40% own stock, but that's either their employers or through something like a 401k.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,604
126
The stock market in general is basically gambling. Even if you bought an index fund, there's no guarantee that 10-20 years from now it'd be worth anything.



I think it's closer to 30-40% own stock, but that's either their employers or through something like a 401k.

There is indeed element of risk in the stock market. There is no question of that at all. However, you can make informed decisions and analyze risks to some extent.

Day trading is pretty much 100% pure gambling. It's left to chance.

Long term trading there is much more reliance on data/facts/knowledge and less on chance.
 

Tommy2000GT

Golden Member
Jun 19, 2000
1,832
3
81
you can win big at trading penny stocks. the ones at $0.00001 can't go any lower and they can only go up. most are volatile and can move to $0.00002 easily.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Why would someone sell if their stock goes down a few percent within a day? Why not just hold until it goes back up?

I did that once. I kept holding and hoping that it would come back up. I now have 14 years left (of 20) of stock loss carryovers for my tax returns. The nearly eternal reminder of how wrong things can (and did) go.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Depends on the stock. You sell off the dead cat bounce and take what you can get, you don't hold it forever until it goes back to the same price it once was. There is huge selling pressure as it gets back to its old price. Most stocks that crash have a bounce off the lows. Sell that top. A good example is when FB initially crashed and then Soros bought it at the bottom.

You should still try to time the sale of a looser stock the same as you would one of your winners as part of minimizing your losses, just as you would try to sell the market top with one of your winning picks, try to sell the dead cat bounce on a looser stock and save some losses. Selling just because it went down or holding it forever just because it went down are both bad ideas.

Only gotta be 51% right to make money in stocks :awe:

Don't continue to hold a stock if it doesn't meet your holding criteria. If you have a play in mind, stock XYZ will rise 10% in 6 months based on ABC, and in 6 months you actually lost 5% don't keep holding it for no reason until the position turns green. Get rid of it and find another play. No big deal. Only gotta be 51% right.

If what you thought was going to happen isn't happening then its risky to keep holding a position with no plan because not only do you not have a plan but your prediction when you bought it was wrong too.

Not that any one is going to read, heh.
 
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Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,695
4
0
I don't think I would ever actually do it. The thought of staring at a computer terminal for 12 hours a day endeavoring to buy and sell stocks for marginal profits doesn't sound appealing to me.

My whole point was - It could be possible if:

a) your expectations of profit per trade were not unrealistic

and

b) you had a big bankroll to finance your trades.

If a stock has been trending upwards for several hours how unlucky or stupid would you have to be to sell at exactly the wrong time (the exact moment the stock begins to lose value)?
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
You would be doing the same thing as the momentum ignition algos, except suck at it worse because you can't see the quotes, bids and offers to 0.0001 cents in 0.00001 seconds or whatever.

You can watch the real-time data and see the algos have a spaz-attack conniption on a minute by minute bases. It'll trade thousands of times at $30.101-$30.102 and then all of a sudden one trade will go at $28 and all sorts of crazy nonsense. They hunt for stop orders I guess when it senses zero volume for 0.000001 seconds.
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,695
4
0
Ok, I went to MSN money and picked the first recommended stock I could find: American Eagle.

It opened at $14.65 and spiked.

At about 9:40 it dropped to $14.60 and began a slow steady climb which peaked at $14.70 around 10:30.

If I had bought 5000 shares at $14.62 (after it started going up) for $73,100 and sold them at $14.68 (before the decline) I would have made $300. If I had been more cautious and sold at $14.66 I still would have banked $200.

Again - that's probably a margin most serious bankers would laugh at. But I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't. It's a great hourly wage for a few key clicks.
 
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