how much did college prep you for your current job?

[chusteczka]

Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, contractors, HVAC, painters, Chefs, lab workers, medical techs, mechanics etc. all seem to do fairly well without college. Some do of course have degrees but, the point is that there are MANY people who are successful without a degree. Given our current financial problems, I suggest more people should investigate trades instead of degrees.

Sure, what you say can be true. Over time, these people become knowledgeable and good at their occupations. However, they are still often taken advantage of when dealing outside their specialty. Do those with a skilled trade deal effectively with loan applications, car purchases, or home purchases? Basically anything where negotiation is involved can allow them to be taken advantage of. Are such people able to think at a level high enough to understand the world around them, learn another language, read a news article on a semi-scientific topic and understand it? Sometimes but not always. Experience does not teach theory. Theory teaches conceptualization.

I used to be a skilled plumber, HVAC technician, and power plant operator as an enlisted submarine mechanic. I had learned the skills and acquired the experience for a very successful career in the navy. However, my mind was no where near as sharp and understanding as it is now after having received an engineering degree in computer science.

I have lived both worlds and my mind is far stronger now as an engineer than it was as a skilled submarine mechanic.

Engineers build and design. Operators maintain and operate equipment because they do not know how to build and design.

 

[HappyPuppy]

You forgot one thing, mechanics with no degrees fix all of your engineering fuckups. They do it on the fly because their jobs depend on it and they understand what you 'designed' better than you.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Sure, what you say can be true. Over time, these people become knowledgeable and good at their occupations. However, they are still often taken advantage of when dealing outside their specialty. Do those with a skilled trade deal effectively with loan applications, car purchases, or home purchases? Basically anything where negotiation is involved can allow them to be taken advantage of. Are such people able to think at a level high enough to understand the world around them, learn another language, read a news article on a semi-scientific topic and understand it? Sometimes but not always. Experience does not teach theory. Theory teaches conceptualization.

I used to be a skilled plumber, HVAC technician, and power plant operator as an enlisted submarine mechanic. I had learned the skills and acquired the experience for a very successful career in the navy. However, my mind was no where near as sharp and understanding as it is now after having received an engineering degree in computer science.

I have lived both worlds and my mind is far stronger now as an engineer than it was as a skilled submarine mechanic.

Engineers build and design. Operators maintain and operate equipment because they do not know how to build and design.

Where to start?

Negotiation is a skill taught in very few schools and is more often learned in the real world.

Learning theory is not the only way to conceptualize.

I'm sure you learned a great deal while in college but, it did not create a "stronger mind." You did that yourself and many do not need college to do that as well.

Many people create, build and, design in their jobs as tradesmen. You do not have to be an engineer.

Knowing how to build and design does not equate with choosing to make that your primary focus in your job. Sorry if I'm misreading your intent but, your statements smack of the worst kind of elitism ie. you don't know what you're talking about except in your own experience. I would have thought a tour in the Navy would have broadened your view.

 

[moshquerade]

100%

 

[IronWing]

HS helped more. How to write good.

 

[moshquerade]

HS helped more. How to write good.

wat? no.

how to write well.

 

[halik]

100% and then some, Grad school about as much as undergrad. Still could use a JD though.

 

[chusteczka]

School teaches the entire life experience of everyone who came before us in the area we study. Learning the life's lessons of many people provides a person with a better understanding of the world and an education.

Without school, a person is left with only the lessons they can personally learn in their own lifetime.

Mathematics seems abstract and maybe even useless for "life". However, it has taken the entire life experience of many highly intelligent and well educated people to create the ability to quantify and better understand life.

People have worked their whole lives to learn and create useful skills, and others have learned these skills and added to them, thereby validating the utility of these skills. Why would anyone turn their back on an opportunity to learn the life lessons of a group of highly intelligent people?

An education teaches everyone the best lessons learned through hard experience by those before us.

A chef may realize an unknown recipe for fantastic and tasteful bread that everyone around visits to purchase and eat. People will want to learn how this bread is made, what ingredients are added, and any special tricks to baking the bread. This chef may keep this secret to himself or teach others. When others are taught, then everyone can enjoy this bread, and everyone's life is improved. A person not interested in learning from others may be smart enough to figure out how to bake this bread but could take many years of attempts to figure out what others learned in a single class.

There is no substitute for an education. A single person's entire life experience is only a small subset of what may be learned in school.

 

[HappyPuppy]

What a crock of shit.

 

[QuantumPion]

so how do I get my foot in the door for a tech job? I want out of sales and customer service but have no idea how to get past the degree requirement.

For a technical job you need a technical degree. I'm an engineer and I use probably 75% of what I learned in college on a frequent basis. While you can learn how to do a particular task without a college degree, you won't have the versatility to either learn new aspects of that job, or fully understand what you are actually doing. It really depends on what kind of specific job you are looking for though. If it is something in the IT industry like server management, that's perhaps a different story.

 

[theevilsharpie]

There is no substitute for an education.

Absolutely agreed. However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that school (which I assume refers to a formal educational institute in your context) is the only place that provides an education.

 

[TecHNooB]

You forgot one thing, mechanics with no degrees fix all of your engineering fuckups. They do it on the fly because their jobs depend on it and they understand what you 'designed' better than you.

nah

 

[ModerateRepZero]

somewhat; I got to hone my writing skills, gained general subject knowledge (ie about government agencies), but as for the specific job roles such as interviewing, decision-making....that was mostly intuition, instinct, and previous job experience.

 

[Jadow]

not one bit

 

[MovingTarget]

4 years undergraduate (BS Applied Math), 2 years graduate (MS Mathematics), and continuing on w/ night courses for a masters in education.

<--Math teacher

 

[iGas]

Zero

 

[chusteczka]

Absolutely agreed. However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that school (which I assume refers to a formal educational institute in your context) is the only place that provides an education.

I think I understand what is happening now. There are three aspects of a person's education that work together:

• a formal education,
• knowledge in a skilled trade, and
• life/work experience.

An engineering student will graduate with both a formal education and knowledge in a skilled trade, able to acquire life/work experience through time.

A philosophy student (for example) will graduate with only a formal education, not having knowledge in a skilled trade, and will be at a disadvantage until such working skills are acquired.

A skilled tradesman (without a college education) will learn and develop knowledge in a skilled trade, able to get through life with that knowledge while acquiring enough life/work experience to substitute for a formal education.


For me, my military experience provided the knowledge in a skilled trade and enough life/work experience to satiate my curiosity for life's lessons. The opportunity to earn a formal education through college was a luxury that opened my mind to the world. Allowing me to break free from the need to rely on my ship mechanic skills to get through life on my terms.

I am no longer confined to working my butt off to possibly work my way up to a senior enlisted or even a warrant officer. With a formal education on top of the skills and life/work experience from the navy, I am now enabled to live life according to my own choices.

I am enabled to choose between returning to the navy as an officer, joining the FBI as a highly skilled agent, or working for a private company as a skilled knowledge worker. I am even able to start my own business, which is what I am doing now.

(The FBI recruiter really opened his eyes in amazement at my combination of military service with an engineering degree and minor in accounting. A weird combination anywhere else but almost exactly what the FBI seems to be looking for.)

Knowledge in a skilled trade allows a person to get through life within the confinement of that trade. Many people can start their own service based business supported by their highly defined skills in that trade. However, these people are not able to work outside of that trade. If times get tough in that industry, a skilled tradesman is stuck. A college education enables a person to work outside the parameters of any single skilled trade. The skills learned in one position often transfer easily to another.


After being stuck in a six year contract as a knuckle-dragging ship's mechanic, the opportunity to earn a college education was a dream for me that I am surprised more people do not cherish. Sometimes I feel like a born-again education nut.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

You forgot one thing, mechanics with no degrees fix all of your engineering fuckups. They do it on the fly because their jobs depend on it and they understand what you 'designed' better than you.

Just because there's some shitty engineers that make shit doesn't mean all mechanics are not shitty and can fix shit.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

HS helped more. How to write good.

How tha ironing

 

[PhaZe]

90&#37;

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Formal education comes in many ways. College is only ONE of them
Knowledge in a skilled trade does not equate with experience in that trade.
The primary goal of the University system is to broaden the perspectives of it's students. This is an admirable goal but, given our current financial situation, not a very economic one. Trade educations have limited scope but, are better suited to changing times due to less investment required both in time and money. When demand changes in trade industries, another trade can be learned in a reasonably short time and for less money. All this doesn't preclude seeking a formal degree either later or concurrently. I'm not saying one kind of education is better than another, I'm saying trade educations are a better value right here and right now. Too many kids have been brainwashed by their parents and peers into thinking that college is the only option. 'Only dumb kids go to trade schools.' It wasn't true in the '60s when I first heard it and it isn't true now.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I think I understand what is happening now. There are three aspects of a person's education that work together:

• a formal education,
• knowledge in a skilled trade, and
• life/work experience.

I don't think I'd separate knowledge of a trade and a formal education, but I generally agree.

An engineering student will graduate with both a formal education and knowledge in a skilled trade, able to acquire life/work experience through time.

A philosophy student (for example) will graduate with only a formal education, not having knowledge in a skilled trade, and will be at a disadvantage until such working skills are acquired.

A skilled tradesman (without a college education) will learn and develop knowledge in a skilled trade, able to get through life with that knowledge while acquiring enough life/work experience to substitute for a formal education.

I would suggest that anyone who obtains a formal education without the practical experience to match is in the same position as your philosophy student, but again, I generally agree with you.

Knowledge in a skilled trade allows a person to get through life within the confinement of that trade. Many people can start their own service based business supported by their highly defined skills in that trade. However, these people are not able to work outside of that trade. If times get tough in that industry, a skilled tradesman is stuck. A college education enables a person to work outside the parameters of any single skilled trade. The skills learned in one position often transfer easily to another.

ROFL, what a load of crap. An electric engineer is no closer to arguing court cases than a mail clerk. A lawyer is no closer to developing software applications than a plumber. A software developer is no closer to performing surgery than a grocery store cashier. A medical doctor is no closer to designing electrical circuits than a farmer.

I know. I work with professionals and business owners in these fields every day. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the accomplishments they've made in their industries, but suggesting that their college education allows them to jump into a skilled position in a completely different field has absolutely no basis in reality. They would start at the bottom, just like everybody else. You could argue that they'd have an easier time jumping into a field related to their area of expertise (e.g. anesthesiologist to organic chemist), but the same can be said for any job.

I'm not saying one kind of education is better than another, I'm saying trade educations are a better value right here and right now. Too many kids have been brainwashed by their parents and peers into thinking that college is the only option. 'Only dumb kids go to trade schools.' It wasn't true in the '60s when I first heard it and it isn't true now.

QFMFT. A 4+ -year college education is for two types of people:

1. The people who want to expand their knowledge solely for its own sake and have no expectation of a financial reward, or

2. The people who have worked for a while, have a clearly-defined career goal, and are using college as an opportunity to fill gaps in their knowledge and build up their network of professional contacts

Anyone else is wasting their money.

 

[TXHokie]

Met the requirement that I had to have a BS degree -- but that's about it. Current job completely unrelate to what I studied for. Oh, and also provide a subject to talk about when it comes to sport.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

ROFL, what a load of crap. An electric engineer is no closer to arguing court cases than a mail clerk. A lawyer is no closer to developing software applications than a plumber. A software developer is no closer to performing surgery than a grocery store cashier. A medical doctor is no closer to designing electrical circuits than a farmer.

I know. I work with professionals and business owners in these fields every day. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the accomplishments they've made in their industries, but suggesting that their college education allows them to jump into a skilled position in a completely different field has absolutely no basis in reality. They would start at the bottom, just like everybody else. You could argue that they'd have an easier time jumping into a field related to their area of expertise (e.g. anesthesiologist to organic chemist), but the same can be said for any job.

It's not baloney if you avoid the strawman argument; no sane person would expect a layman without any legal background (formal experience and/or training) to argue a case in court, much less before an appeals or international court. I suspect the poster was not talking about skilled/highly specialized field transfers, but moving from one job to another based on transferable skills and (general) subject knowledge.

I think what the poster was saying is that having general skills or a well-rounded education would ideally provide flexibility for someone who found themselves either unemployed or wished to change careers. I knew an acquaintance who was a double-E for her bachelor's and master's, and then graduated from law school with a JD in intellectual property. Someone who lacked good writing skills would certainly not make it thru law school.

 

[theevilsharpie]

It's not baloney if you avoid the strawman argument; no sane person would expect a layman without any legal background (formal experience and/or training) to argue a case in court, much less before an appeals or international court. I suspect the poster was not talking about skilled/highly specialized field transfers, but moving from one job to another based on transferable skills and (general) subject knowledge.

As I said, this can apply to any job. An electrician would have an easier time obtaining an EE than a lawyer. A nurse is closer than a software developer to becoming a medical doctor, etc.

Lacking a degree doesn't prevent skills from transferring, which is what chusteczka claimed.