How much did your paycheck go up from Trump's tax plan?

[ch33zw1z]

Investment isn't the enemy. My home community would probably be better off with some business investment than they would be with another TANF check.



I can agree that Democrats and Republicans alike pursue big government and deficit spending. I can't get behind the idea that conservatives are just racists who hate their fellow man. If you want to attack conservatism, do it for legitimate reasons. Their theocratic nature is dangerous. Their nationalism/militarism is dangerous. Their endless love of those professions that commit violence on behalf of the state, their anti-privacy agendas, etc. Those are all legitimate criticisms.

FWIW, I don't want smaller government because I dislike the poor or anyone for that matter. I have the same goals you do, I want to help the poor. I just think there's a different and better path.



They don't want the help you've been trying to give them because they don't view it as help. That's what you fail to understand. You view something like Obamacare as an awesome policy to reduce their healthcare costs and provide them with something they would otherwise not have. They see Obamacare in the context of large increases in their insurance premiums and government meddling in their lives.



It starts with rethinking education to improve outcomes. I have some unpopular views in this regard, but when every school in my home town gets an F grade I think it's time for radical thinking.

I haven't misunderstood what you're presenting this far. So a couple things...

1. Investment itself is not the enemy, I didn't say that. You seem aware enough to understand what I said, but I'll clear it up. 1.5 trillion borrowed to cut taxes for the wealthiest americans by a simply astounding sum. And again, on the backs of the middle class. Sure, the chump change coming our way for a year is fun, but silly to get all worked up about...especially with the bill right around the corner. And another torpedo to the ACA will hit in 2019.

2. I wasn't for the ACA. I knew it would raise my premiums for my direct family. I have many family members who benefit from it, and are just now finding out how much health insurance and care really costs. So I've madey peace with it, but I'm really for healthcare for all Americans. I also have family complaining about Medicare cost increases, and they voted R they're whole lives

3. The past 3 election cycles have brought racism and xenophobia to the forefront. Now, maybe it was that way before, but I'm only 37 and dont remember first hand any of the elections before '96 or so.

This isn't my choice, but it seems to hit home with many people. I'll agree that not all Cons are racists, and I'll submit that doesn't matter, because you're voting with them and for the same people pandering to them.

Much like the Charlottesville debacle. Where unwitting Cons marched shoulder to shoulder with nazis. Lol...sure they just didn't know.

4. Correct, they don't want the help. And openly mock others for wanting to.

5. I will not support degrading educational requirements to make grades look good on paper. If we want to be competitive, then we need to continue measuring our education system with those countries we want to compete with.

I'm not against adjusting educational programs, and this particular topic itself could consume much of my time. I have two kids with IEP's, one has ADHD and both have language and speech disorders.

I could complain at length about the lack of funding or misuse of funds in school districts.

But hey, fuck my feels.

At the end of the day money talks, losers walk.

 

[K1052]

Sure, but the point still stands that these people would be better off with work than aid. If investment goes to the urban areas, then I'm not opposed to making it easier for residents of these towns to move there. Combining economic growth with putting people where that growth is happening seems like the best solution to poverty.

Some of those people would yes. There are a huge number of sick/elderly/disabled people out there too who would not be able to make the move without major government assistance. This will probably be required anyway as rural healthcare continues it's implosion and younger people depart in search of work.

 

[BigDH01]

I haven't misunderstood what you're presenting this far. So a couple things...

1. Investment itself is not the enemy, I didn't say that. You seem aware enough to understand what I said, but I'll clear it up. 1.5 trillion borrowed to cut taxes for the wealthiest americans by a simply astounding sum. And again, on the backs of the middle class. Sure, the chump change coming our way for a year is fun, but silly to get all worked up about...especially with the bill right around the corner. And another torpedo to the ACA will hit in 2019.

Yes, I probably would've gone smaller on the tax cuts while slowly reducing taxes and spending simultaneously. Saying it's "on the backs" of the middle class is probably a little hyperbolic though. But we'll have to wait for longer than a month to see how things pan out.

3. The past 3 election cycles have brought racism and xenophobia to the forefront. Now, maybe it was that way before, but I'm only 37 and dont remember first hand any of the elections before '96 or so.

I'm slightly younger than you but even I remember strong debates about things like immigration previously. This is from 1995. The anti-immigrant stance is not really new. I also don't really feel that the racism issue is new either. I mean, Strom Thurmond was a sitting US senator until 2003 and he once filibustered the Civil Rights Act. I think social media, and hysterical media in general, has just made everything more sensational than it was when I was young. I grew up in the 90s when you still had to use the telephone to meet up to play Mario Kart. We just weren't as bombarded all day long with political messaging as people are now.

This isn't my choice, but it seems to hit home with many people. I'll agree that not all Cons are racists, and I'll submit that doesn't matter, because you're voting with them and for the same people pandering to them.

I just don't think this viewpoint is fair. It would be more fair, perhaps, if we had more than 2 parties but we just don't. So I don't blame someone for voting republican because there are conservative racists (just as I don't blame someone for voting democrat even if there are communists who do the same). There's just not enough choice in general to lay blame like that.

Much like the Charlottesville debacle. Where unwitting Cons marched shoulder to shoulder with nazis. Lol...sure they just didn't know.

Those conservatives are probably not good people, I'll grant you that, but there are plenty of people who voted Republican who are. I've known plenty that I've vehemently disagreed with, but who genuinely cared about and helped others. Including a step dad who spends a great deal of time volunteering at a soup kitchen. It's hard for me to jump on the "you just don't care about people" bandwagon with him knowing that he helps the needy far more than I do.

4. Correct, they don't want the help. And openly mock others for wanting to.

You just have different definitions of help.

5. I will not support degrading educational requirements to make grades look good on paper. If we want to be competitive, then we need to continue measuring our education system with those countries we want to compete with.

I'm not against adjusting educational programs, and this particular topic itself could consume much of my time. I have two kids with IEP's, one has ADHD and both have language and speech disorders.

I could complain at length about the lack of funding or misuse of funds in school districts.

I would say that the schools I went to didn't necessarily lack funding, it just wasn't put to practical purposes, if that makes sense. I would certainly say that funding per student didn't seem to be well-correlated to outcomes.

 

[senseamp]

Republican tax cuts are creating a huge deficit (aka supply of bonds), causing rates to rise, and crashing the markets now. This is the stupidity of creating fiscal stimulus at the peak of the business cycle.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, I probably would've gone smaller on the tax cuts while slowly reducing taxes and spending simultaneously. Saying it's "on the backs" of the middle class is probably a little hyperbolic though. But we'll have to wait for longer than a month to see how things pan out.

Just ignore what experts speculate. Don't mind the deficit spending...nothing to see here

I'm slightly younger than you but even I remember strong debates about things like immigration previously. This is from 1995. The anti-immigrant stance is not really new. I also don't really feel that the racism issue is new either. I mean, Strom Thurmond was a sitting US senator until 2003 and he once filibustered the Civil Rights Act. I think social media, and hysterical media in general, has just made everything more sensational than it was when I was young. I grew up in the 90s when you still had to use the telephone to meet up to play Mario Kart. We just weren't as bombarded all day long with political messaging as people are now.

our parents were, sans social media. we just notice now since entering adulthood. it was easier to disconnect then, I'll agree to that.

I just don't think this viewpoint is fair. It would be more fair, perhaps, if we had more than 2 parties but we just don't. So I don't blame someone for voting republican because there are conservative racists (just as I don't blame someone for voting democrat even if there are communists who do the same). There's just not enough choice in general to lay blame like that.

I'm pretty sure the last election cycle presented some very clear messages to this thought process. maybe like, life's not fair buttercup, suck it up snow flake, and fuck your feels.

Those conservatives are probably not good people, I'll grant you that, but there are plenty of people who voted Republican who are. I've known plenty that I've vehemently disagreed with, but who genuinely cared about and helped others. Including a step dad who spends a great deal of time volunteering at a soup kitchen. It's hard for me to jump on the "you just don't care about people" bandwagon with him knowing that he helps the needy far more than I do.

Then you should probably start getting some airtime on fox news.

You just have different definitions of help.

There's many different perceptual definitions, yet the definition of help is simple and clear. In the last 8 years, I've seen a shift on the Conservative side that turns my stomach, and it's clear they don't actually want help when it comes from a Dem. They want trickle down economics, jobs from employers that still GAF about them. Hard to come by now.

I would say that the schools I went to didn't necessarily lack funding, it just wasn't put to practical purposes, if that makes sense. I would certainly say that funding per student didn't seem to be well-correlated to outcomes.

Stupidity begets stupidity. When is it enough? The conservatives on this world say never.

 

[UNCjigga]

LOL, apparently Paul Ryan retweeted a woman who was praising the tax cuts for giving her enough extra pay to "more than cover" her Costco membership--$1.50 a week. After Democrats pointed out that regular Americans were getting pocket change and free hostess snacks while Ryan got $500k from Kochs, he deleted the tweet.

Didn't anybody tell him that the threshold for celebration was $42.50/week

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/03/politics/paul-ryan-tweet-tax-cut-backlash/index.html

 

[shortylickens]

You know how they saved 1 and a half trillion?

By borrowing 955 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.8a6b0e07d521

 

[ch33zw1z]

You know how they saved 1 and a half trillion?

By borrowing 955 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.8a6b0e07d521

Oh fun.

 

[Jhhnn]

LOL, apparently Paul Ryan retweeted a woman who was praising the tax cuts for giving her enough extra pay to "more than cover" her Costco membership--$1.50 a week. After Democrats pointed out that regular Americans were getting pocket change and free hostess snacks while Ryan got $500k from Kochs, he deleted the tweet.

Didn't anybody tell him that the threshold for celebration was $42.50/week

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/03/politics/paul-ryan-tweet-tax-cut-backlash/index.html

Yeh, the trickle down will be awesome, huh?

 

[UNCjigga]

You know how they saved 1 and a half trillion?

By borrowing 955 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-1-trillion-this-year/?utm_term=.8a6b0e07d521

C'mon, that's just Trump's way of doing business.

1. Borrow a ton of money - check
2. Build some shit - soon (The wall, infrastructure, etc.)
3. Stiff the contractors
4. Unload the property to some foreign interest (China, Russia etc.)
5. Run away with the money!

 

[outriding]

C'mon, that's just Trump's way of doing business.

1. Borrow a ton of money - check
2. Build some shit - soon (The wall, infrastructure, etc.)
3. Stiff the contractors
4. Unload the property to some foreign interest (China, Russia etc.)
5. Run away with the money!

Re: #4

And the GOP/Trump supporters will applaud Trump for it... and the property probably will be will be some random blue state..

Then the GOP/Trump supporters will bitch when some authority tries to investigate them.. then blame the Dems for some random nonsensical crap.

 

[sportage]

Like I keep saying....
Say one did get $85, BUT.... also on the horizon are states raising their fees and taxes to make up for that federal loss in revenue.
So, you get your $85 however in a few months your property taxes go up 15% from $3000 to $3450.
And your car registration fee from say $235 to $325.
And the state gas tax goes up a dime or two.
Followed by countless number of other higher state fees, higher state taxes, and new fees and taxes.
Add up those state increases then minus your Donald Trump $85 bi-weekly tax windfall and guess what?
You end up in the hole, which has been the typical trend for the middle class for many many years.
They call it wage stagnation. Queue the graph....
Then comes next year. More wage stagnation, higher state fees and taxes, new fees and taxes, higher living expenses, and that $85 just a short lived memory of so long ago.
What the republicans have once again pulled off on middle class Americans is simply amazing.
Their tax stunt where the people fall for it time after time after time.
Millionares becoming billionaires, corporations racking in billions in profits, and the middle class left with the memory of $85 all those years ago.
Hey.... if you find a sucker that you can constantly fool and cheat, that becomes your little hobby.
Fooling the schmuck over and over because it is so easy to do.The schmuck falls for it every time, and you just can't believe anyone could be that stupid.
Republicans are that lucky.
They know that fool all too well.
And its the same old schmuck as the time before.... middle class America.

 

[Bitek]

The free Twinkies were a pretty a good deal tho. A box is $3 from Target. Plus tax. Which is no longer deductible.

That's like, two weeks + worth of her raise.

Unless.. it was just a free $0.30 Twinkie, then yo, those Hostess employees got fuuuuuuuuckt.

She gets 5 Twinkies. Damn. Make it rain.

 

[mect]

Paul Ryan tweets and the deletes about a secretary saving $1.50 a week.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ry-saving-1-50-a-week/?utm_term=.2d644a2f7232

 

[UNCjigga]

Like I keep saying....
Say one did get $85, BUT.... also on the horizon are states raising their fees and taxes to make up for that federal loss in revenue.
So, you get your $85 however in a few months your property taxes go up 15% from $3000 to $3450.
And your car registration fee from say $235 to $325.
And the state gas tax goes up a dime or two.
Followed by countless number of other higher state fees, higher state taxes, and new fees and taxes.
Add up those state increases then minus your Donald Trump $85 bi-weekly tax windfall and guess what?
You end up in the hole, which has been the typical trend for the middle class for many many years.
They call it wage stagnation. Queue the graph....
Then comes next year. More wage stagnation, higher state fees and taxes, new fees and taxes, higher living expenses, and that $85 just a short lived memory of so long ago.
What the republicans have once again pulled off on middle class Americans is simply amazing.
Their tax stunt where the people fall for it time after time after time.
Millionares becoming billionaires, corporations racking in billions in profits, and the middle class left with the memory of $85 all those years ago.
Hey.... if you find a sucker that you can constantly fool and cheat, that becomes your little hobby.
Fooling the schmuck over and over because it is so easy to do.The schmuck falls for it every time, and you just can't believe anyone could be that stupid.
Republicans are that lucky.
They know that fool all too well.
And its the same old schmuck as the time before.... middle class America.

Don't forget, all signs are pointing to significant hike in the Federal gas tax (first in a long time) if Republicans pass an infrastructure bill.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Paul Ryan tweets and the deletes about a secretary saving $1.50 a week.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ry-saving-1-50-a-week/?utm_term=.2d644a2f7232

His tweet reads more like someone being sarcastic. I don't think that was his intention.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Don't forget, all signs are pointing to significant hike in the Federal gas tax (first in a long time) if Republicans pass an infrastructure bill.

Sounds a lot like a tax incentive to drive an electric car / hybrid. Wouldn't the left cheer this?

Who does a gas tax hit more, the guy with a Prius or the guy with a Lambo? The rich need to pay their fair share, the left also says things to that effect all the time.

 

[UNCjigga]

Sounds a lot like a tax incentive to drive an electric car / hybrid. Wouldn't the left cheer this?

Not really, because most Americans drive to work (public transit is shit in America) and gas taxes tend to hurt lower economic rungs more. Just another nail in the coffin for "trickle down."

But, who knows if they'll even pass an infrastructure bill...

 

[jackstar7]

Not really, because most Americans drive to work (public transit is shit in America) and gas taxes tend to hurt lower economic rungs more. Just another nail in the coffin for "trickle down."

But, who knows if they'll even pass an infrastructure bill...

Stop countering his dribble with facts and reality. That's just unfair.

 

[ch33zw1z]

His tweet reads more like someone being sarcastic. I don't think that was his intention.

Paul Ryan was mocking this person then? Or wasn't being sarcastic?

 

[soundforbjt]

His tweet reads more like someone being sarcastic. I don't think that was his intention.

Then why’d he delete it? What a cuck, Drumpf would never delete his.

 

[ivwshane]

Sounds a lot like a tax incentive to drive an electric car / hybrid. Wouldn't the left cheer this?

Who does a gas tax hit more, the guy with a Prius or the guy with a Lambo? The rich need to pay their fair share, the left also says things to that effect all the time.

The guy driving the lambo clearly doesn't care about the cost of gas while the guy driving the Prius clearly does. Your example, like most of your arguments, is stupid and totally invalidates your point.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Not really, because most Americans drive to work (public transit is shit in America) and gas taxes tend to hurt lower economic rungs more. Just another nail in the coffin for "trickle down."

But, who knows if they'll even pass an infrastructure bill...

Yes, people drive to work so if gas tax went up a few cents everyone would pay that. But the guy driving a car that gets good gas mileage, like a Prius, feels that less than the guy driving a 7 series. Do you think the guy driving the Prius makes more than the guy in the BMW? You guys normally cheer government pressure to move to greener ways. But this time it could be Trump and the GOP doing it, so its bad.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Paul Ryan was mocking this person then? Or wasn't being sarcastic?

I don't think he was, but it reads as if he was... Like... Yippee! Costco membership.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I don't think he was, but it reads as if he was... Like... Yippee! Costco membership.

I think he sincerely thought that example would be adequate.

It just proves Pelosi correct.

And as I linked earlier, the GOP tax bill almost cut out a deduction for teachers spending money on items for school, which is necessary in most school districts now.