How much do you think piracy is affecting the PC Gaming market?

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
I'm pretty sure theft or not, it's still evil. You're profiting from someone else's labors, without their permissions - and in fact in direct opposition to their wishes, without compensating them, with complete knowledge that they are in fact dependent upon sales of those products for their livelihood. You are absolutely doing harm, and taking things to which you have no claim.

You are not necessarily doing harm, excluding voluntary mental infuriation (which you should not be accountable for). How does downloading something that you weren't going to buy anyway cause harm? Either way, the outcome for the developer is the same.

While it may be rude (in this society), it is far from evil. I don't even see how your can make that claim. An arbitrary idea of infringing upon IP is evil? That is like saying running a stop sign is evil.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
As can I. So? The fact that murder is worse then assault doesn't make assault not evil.

Yes, because murder and assault is pretty much the same thing as copyright theft. Jay walkers are evil? Pillow tag removers evil? People who fart in public are evil? Trolls are evil? People who eat meat are evil? Bad tippers evil?
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
No, it isn't a moral issue. Imagine if the first man to start a fire patented it, or someone had IP ownership of a sandwich.

And no, it isn't theft. Neither legally or morally.

Most people would consider breaking the law a moral issue. If the law is unjust, then work to change it.

BTW patent law is entirely different than copyright.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
You're forgetting priests that molest little children and don't get so much as a slap on the wrist are evil. Let's put copyright infringement in the same catagory, apparently it's ok then.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
You are not necessarily doing harm, excluding voluntary mental infuriation (which you should not be accountable for). How does downloading something that you weren't going to buy anyway cause harm? Either way, the outcome for the developer is the same.

While it may be rude (in this society), it is far from evil. I don't even see how your can make that claim. An arbitrary idea of infringing upon IP is evil? That is like saying running a stop sign is evil.

Here here.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
4
0
You're forgetting priests that molest little children and don't get so much as a slap on the wrist are evil. Let's put copyright infringement in the same catagory, apparently it's ok then.

One act has a victim. The other does not.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Yes, because murder and assault is pretty much the same thing as copyright theft. Jay walkers are evil? Pillow tag removers evil? People who fart in public are evil? Trolls are evil? People who eat meat are evil? Bad tippers evil?

You seem a bit confused. Legality and Morality are separate issues. Piracy isn't immoral because it's illegal. It's immoral AND illegal.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I'm pretty sure theft or not, it's still evil. You're profiting from someone else's labors, without their permissions - and in fact in direct opposition to their wishes, without compensating them, with complete knowledge that they are in fact dependent upon sales of those products for their livelihood. You are absolutely doing harm, and taking things to which you have no claim.

See the SimCity thread. How much as EA profited from others labor without compensating them by providing the agreed upon entertainment? At $150,000 per infringement, I'd say EA owes several trillion dollars. Anything less than that is evil.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
See the SimCity thread. How much as EA profited from others labor without compensating them by providing the agreed upon entertainment? At $150,000 per infringement, I'd say EA owes several trillion dollars. Anything less than that is evil.

Yes. Exactly. The rules go both ways. I agree.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Most people would consider breaking the law a moral issue. If the law is unjust, then work to change it.

BTW patent law is entirely different than copyright.

So jaywalking is immoral and evil? Letting your grass grow too long is immoral/evil? Etc. Legality and morality are not the same thing, although many things are both immoral and illegal (like murder).

People are working to change the law. There are IP protests all over the world and discussions over how piracy should be treated legally. In some countries piracy is even legal.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
You seem a bit confused. Legality and Morality are separate issues. Piracy isn't immoral because it's illegal. It's immoral AND illegal.

That is where I believe you are wrong.

Yes, it is illegal.

No, it is not immoral. No, it is not evil. And I don't see how you could think that without deluding yourself to thinking the piracy is theft and causes direct harm (which has been proven multiple times to be false).
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
A game is the product of the labor of many people. If those people are fired because their game doesn't sell enough yet is pirated many times more than it is sold how can you say piracy is not immoral?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
I don't think piracy is hurting as much as bad release's, bad drm, and silly shit like "always on"
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
You seem a bit confused. Legality and Morality are separate issues. Piracy isn't immoral because it's illegal. It's immoral AND illegal.

Morals depend on who you ask. 46% of Republicans in Alabama want to make interracial marriage illegal. Its morally wrong to them. In the middle east they can kill a woman because she shows too much skin. There was a whole part of a generation that grew up on file sharing. Doesnt make them the same kind of evil as a child molester or I dunno...Hitler. You devalue the meaning of evil when you associate it with copyright theft.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
A game is the product of the labor of many people. If those people are fired because their game doesn't sell enough yet is pirated many times more than it is sold how can you say piracy is not immoral?

You're assuming that it didn't sell because of pirating. Everything is pirated. Yet not everything fails. What does this tell you? If piracy is a global thing destroying every IP out there, then shouldn't everything fail?

Also, you might want to look at the history of some of these beloved companies you are defending for doing things such as fancy bookwork so that it looks like the item made no money, while it actually made 100's of millions, all while not paying and/or letting go those involved with the creation of said product. There have been plenty of said cases of the labor of people going unrewarded due to things like this.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
That is where I believe you are wrong.

Yes, it is illegal.

No, it is not immoral. No, it is not evil. And I don't see how you could think that without deluding yourself to thinking the piracy is theft and causes direct harm (which has been proven multiple times to be false).

No, I think it causes indirect harm. Pretty sure that's still harm.

Less like theft, more like a stowaway on a passenger plane. The plane was going that way anyway - but they're not paying their way, so really everyone else on the plane is paying for them to fly. Leeches, basically.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Most people would consider breaking the law a moral issue. If the law is unjust, then work to change it.

BTW patent law is entirely different than copyright.

Breaking the law is not automatically immoral.
It is morally right to break an immoral law.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
You can try to rationalize it all you want, but to attempt to say piracy is not immoral requires a suspension of logic you should be ashamed of.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
So, at the risk of going WAY overboard, should we go back to slavery? Or prohibition? or any other number of "laws" that are no longer in effect that were once considered good and just and perfectly in line with what people considered moral? What about when the use of marijuana is eventually legal everywhere? Gay marriage? There are so many examples. Those who broke those laws were also deemed immoral. Hell, the USA is founded on people doing what other people thought was immoral. Judging others is what simple minds do best.

So rationalize all YOU want. It is not the be all end all. Laws change, just because YOU think something is wrong, doesn't mean it is. When enough people rail against them (and I'd say alot of people have an issue with this) but it doesn't mean there is anything immoral about breaking it.

These holier than thou people make me chuckle.

People who actually think for themselves can rationalize multiple sides of subjects, not just the one they believe in.
 
Last edited:

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
No, I think it causes indirect harm. Pretty sure that's still harm.

Less like theft, more like a stowaway on a passenger plane. The plane was going that way anyway - but they're not paying their way, so really everyone else on the plane is paying for them to fly. Leeches, basically.

Stowaway passengers on a plane use up expensive fuel while also causing a safety hazard for other passengers. It isn't nearly the same thing.

A game is the product of the labor of many people. If those people are fired because their game doesn't sell enough yet is pirated many times more than it is sold how can you say piracy is not immoral?

Who says that if those people didn't pirate that it would translate to more sales? Nearly every game is pirated, yet game development continues to be a very profitable industry (if you are lucky and develop a quality product). Yes, it is risky, but to blame your failure on piracy is just shifting it.

"Oh our game only sold 100k copies. We have failed as developers and are now out of business." <- How devs should think

"Oh our game only sold 100k copies, but according to our tracking it was pirated 100k times as well! We should have had 200k sales!" <- A delusion thought process

Look at humble bundle. Those games have literally no DRM, are pirated out the ass, yet it is still extremely lucrative.

Look at Minecraft. It was the same way.

Look at dwarf fortress. The game is free yet it still churns enough profit to live on through donations.

People will pay for a product they value. Devs should make their products valuable.
People will either skip or pirate products they don't find valuable. Should they just skip the product instead of illegally downloading it? Yes. Does it cause harm to the developer if they download it illegally? No.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
You can try to rationalize it all you want, but to attempt to say piracy is not immoral requires a suspension of logic you should be ashamed of.

No, it is trying to say that our current IP laws are moral that demands a unhealthy amount of denial.
 

Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
1,918
89
91
I'm sorry, but it seems like some people's 'intelligence' is getting in the way here. This is very simple. Follow me now.

Piracy = stealing somebody else's work, their intellectual property, and their time.

stealing = wrong.

wrong = people come up with all kind of wild fantasies to convince themselves that it's not wrong. It's how humans respond generally when confronted.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |