How much GOD loves Us!

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: meltdown75
To be able to simply respect the beliefs of others is a lost trait in this world.

Its a two way street, and its a trait that never existed. At this point I view all gods based relgions as fictional works. Just as most people laugh at scientology (which was created by a science fiction author), I laugh at christianity. So how can I respect someone's beliefs?

Surely equating them to fictional works and degrading them as "science fiction" is not one and the same though, or is it?

I guess being cool with everything is just a state of mind...

It's only degrading because you hold them as above criticism. You can be "cool" with someone's beliefs and still question them. When I do so I'm not opressing you or forcing you to do anything, so stop trying to be a victim.

Religious ideas are ideas too. Your definition of tolerance is so one-sided it's laughable. Apparently to be appropriately "tolerant" I have to pander to your ideas by pussyfooting around your values. Jesus Christ, grow up. The scary ideas can't hurt you.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
YouPorn is a porn site.

Shows what you know...:roll:





:beer:

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
My responses are bolded.

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: tealk

If God were to remove all the bad things in this world he would have to take away our will. Then we would be machines. Then consciousness would be moot. No God gave us a will so that we might choose life or death.

Quite simply, this is a non-sequitur -- ignoring for the moment the incongruency of free will existing in a world where some being infallibly foreknows the future.

There is no incongruity. Stop pretending there is.

Argument by assertion. Care to explain how events can be simultaneously known and undetermined?

A - By choosing to know, and choosing not to know.

There already exists a literally infinite set of actions that humans cannot do. We cannot see infrared. We cannot hear 50KHz frequencies. We cannot digest diamonds. We cannot travel faster than light. The list goes on.

It does not follow from these facts that we lack the free will to choose among the possible actions available to us, (of course) nor does it follow that we would be deprived our free will were the actions declared to be "sins" members of the set of actions impossible for us to accomplish.

Yes it does follow. Considering we are the source of bad things (sin). We are allowed to do stuff that does not adhere to God's will. If we could not physically do anything to violate God's will, we would be "machines" as tealk said.

Already addressed. Bald assertions are not arguments.

A - Under the same token, your defined limit of free will does not match those set by the physics of our system. Your definition is your own definition.

All the sufferings of this world are temporary. There are millions of people in the world who have suffered, been tortured, raped and oppressed and they do not feel the need to blame God. Suffering is temporary.

Tell that to the souls your God has allegedly cast into the his lake of fire.

Don't be dense. You know he meant earthly suffering.

If he meant it, he would have said it.

A - Hell is not part of "this world". If you can get there, take some pictures for me.

If you aren't comfortable with the thought of your life on earth being the cake walk part of your existence, you'd better get right with God. That's not the only motivation, but it sure is compelling.

Argument by threat. Do you ever actually reason?

A - Not my place to comment.

People might be murdered but God is the net for the soul. If you create a being with its own will rebellion is inevitable. Sin is inevitable and therefor suffering is inevitable. God knew this before he created us yet he has a plan to save those who will humbly seek him.

HA! That's hilarious. If God knows already that he will not save certain people, then he created them for the sole purpose of subjecting them to eternal torment. What kind of a sick, sadistic sonuvabitch would do such a thing?

Don't forget God only physically created two people. The rest were products of man's procreational ability. God enabled us to bring new beings into existence. Granted, it's up to him to endow the forming human with life, but the act of generation is our call.

You are invited to explain how that affects the veracity of my argument.

Are you saying that nobody except for Adam and Eve are God's creations? Would you claim that God didn't know who would exist in the future of his creation?

A - Nobody but Adam, Eve, and Jesus were of God's perfect creation. Once Adam and Eve sinned (which was done prior to having children), we inherently were all sinners. And on the same token, we were all inherently of God's creation.

A2 - I think your next logical argument would be why would 2 perfect humans sin? Free will.

A3 - Then why were they given free will? Love.

You may have noticed the Bible says (2 Peter 3:9) that God is unwilling that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.[/b]

So? The verse is only another example of the Bible failing tests of rationality. Omnipotent beings get precisely what they want. Nothing happens against the will of a being with unlimited power. So either the verse is false, or nobody does perish.

EDIT: Must have missed this one:
A - He is unwilling by love. Certainly things happen against the will of God...but does he want them to? Could he just stop them? Sure. He actually did it once and promised to never do it again...I guess that doesn't go against himself when we see where we are today.

Not sure your ranting merited a response. People like you only see what they want to see.

Physician, heal thyself!

A - I think its safe to say we have 2 guilty parties there .

 

[DangerAardvark]

No point arguing specific religious dogma IMO. Religion starts with God and builds from there. In other words, it starts from the most complex, illogical thing IMAGINABLE, and uses that as a foundation. If a religious person can't even admit that the whole basis of religion rests on serious case of doublethink, of what use is the rest of the discussion?

 

[jinduy]

what a stupid video

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
No point arguing specific religious dogma IMO. Religion starts with God and builds from there. In other words, it starts from the most complex, illogical thing IMAGINABLE, and uses that as a foundation. If a religious person can't even admit that the whole basis of religion rests on serious case of doublethink, of what use is the rest of the discussion?

And do you think you could fully comprehend how we came to be? Whether it be by creation or by evolution? Its easy to just say what "happened" (meaning we can't define it one way or the other), but explain in detail, molecule by molecule and the order in which occurred - please. Didn't think so. I guess its probably a little too complex and illogical - and maybe not even imaginable by the minds we contain.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Tweak155
[
Argument by assertion. Care to explain how events can be simultaneously known and undetermined?

A - By choosing to know, and choosing not to know.

Ummm... what? 9 words hardly constitute a real explanation.

A - Under the same token, your defined limit of free will does not match those set by the physics of our system. Your definition is your own definition.

All definitions are our own respective definitions. Regardless, I don't see what you think is my "defined limit of free will." Care to elaborate?

If he meant it, he would have said it.

A - Hell is not part of "this world". If you can get there, take some pictures for me.

Semantics. He did not necessarily make the distinction you have.

{snip}

You are invited to explain how that affects the veracity of my argument.

Are you saying that nobody except for Adam and Eve are God's creations? Would you claim that God didn't know who would exist in the future of his creation?

A - Nobody but Adam, Eve, and Jesus were of God's perfect creation.

I refer you to earlier refutations of the idea that the adjective "perfect" has any kind of objective meaning whatsoever.

Once Adam and Eve sinned (which was done prior to having children), we inherently were all sinners. And on the same token, we were all inherently of God's creation.

A2 - I think your next logical argument would be why would 2 perfect humans sin? Free will.

A3 - Then why were they given free will? Love.

As demonstrated before, the ability to sin is not a prerequisite to free will.

So? The verse is only another example of the Bible failing tests of rationality. Omnipotent beings get precisely what they want. Nothing happens against the will of a being with unlimited power. So either the verse is false, or nobody does perish.

EDIT: Must have missed this one:
A - He is unwilling by love. Certainly things happen against the will of God...but does he want them to? Could he just stop them? Sure.

It is plainly inconsistent to say that a being has full, unimpeded power to directly affect the outcome of an event, but that some outcome would happen against that being's will. Nothing happens against that being's will. That's what it means to have unimpeded power.

{snip}

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
The #1 reason I'm not Christian is that I can do bad things and not go to Christian hell

I can steal candy from children, say FUCK, or even FUCK what I want when I want, and at the end of it all I will just end up a happy corpse. Beats the hell out of an eternity in hell, who the hell would want to sign that agreement is beyond me.

Belief does not necessarily equate with reality. I could be wrong, and entirely cease to exist when I die, despite the fact that I believe that won't happen. You know, people believed the world was flat for a long time, but their belief didn't make it flat.

This is obviously some kind of sarcastic way to make a point, but I don't quite get what your point is?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
No point arguing specific religious dogma IMO. Religion starts with God and builds from there. In other words, it starts from the most complex, illogical thing IMAGINABLE, and uses that as a foundation. If a religious person can't even admit that the whole basis of religion rests on serious case of doublethink, of what use is the rest of the discussion?

I just got excited to see doublethink Not all religions have gods though.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

jesus is a reincarnation of vishnu. lolz.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: rise
people should stop equating the church- any church, temple or mosque with God.

OP, cool link, thanks.

QFT

people should also stop getting faith and religion mixed up too.

There is a TON of F'd up religion out there. Even people of faith will admit that.

cool OP. Thanks.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Garth

Fine, but the point remains that if God didn't WANT sinners he wouldn't have created them.

Mmm, that assumes that God makes us who we are.

Well, he DID allegedly create the universe and the rules by which it operates. Thus, he allegedly decided what humans are and are not capable of doing. If he didn't want people to sin, he would've created a universe that included sinning among the set of actions humans couldn't do.

Suppose I gave my handgun to my infant nephew to play with, loaded and cocked, with a hair trigger. Should I be absolved of responsibility when the gun goes off in my nephew's hands? I mean, I didn't make the gun go off, right? It wasn't me that pulled the trigger.

No, if I really didn't want the gun to go off in my nephew's hands, I wouldn't have given it to him in the first place.

I don't believe God is like a clockmaker that sets the world in motion and makes it so that everything happens exactly as he wants, because in that case we really are talking about a jerk of a god, which doesn't fit the rest of what I know. I don't think anyone is born a murderer, or even a pacifist for that matter. You're right, I don't know why people choose to do the stupid and terrible things they do, but I don't believe God likes it or has to have those people go the wrong way in order to fulfill some greater good. Yeah, good things sometimes come out of terrible things, but I don't think terrible things have to happen in order to have good things.

Why do terrible things have to happen at all? Moreover, why must there be such dogmantic conditions and prerequisites set to qualify for forgiveness?

I've thought a bit, and have an answer. The world isn't set up to fail, but we "know just enough to be dangerous." I don't think anyone would ever sin if they realized that they really are shooting themselves in the foot; the trouble is we can think, but we just can't see the whole picture, so we make stupid mistakes.

So why didn't God give us total knowledge and understanding in the first place? Probably because he knew we'd figure we don't need him since we're so amazing, and we'd leave and, again, send ourselves to hell (separation) exactly like Lucifer (Satan) did.

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: McGyver
"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."

- Thomas Paine

How can you be absolutely certain that Thomas Paine was right? Isn't this argument, in fact, committing the fallacy of authority? I suggest you stop to think and consider every position with an open mind and not just blindly stick to your one position that's not even yours to begin with.

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
jesus is a reincarnation of vishnu. lolz.

You are closed-mindedly and intolerantly making fun of those who hold a different view than your own, Inspector Jihad. Every Hindu knows that Jesus cannot a reincarnation of Vishnu because the idea of the resurrection is absurd to Hindus who believes in reincarnation. I suggest you open your mind and think for yourself instead of letting others think for you.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor

Originally posted by: McGyver
"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."

- Thomas Paine

How can you be absolutely certain that Thomas Paine was right? Isn't this argument, in fact, committing the fallacy of authority? I suggest you stop to think and consider every position with an open mind and not just blindly stick to your one position that's not even yours to begin with.

Wasn't that the plot to an episode of the original Star Trek as well?

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
if god loved my gf he wouldn't have given her polymyositis, fibromyalgia, arthritis, and a host of other diseases before the age of 9.


bastard.

Why is it that whenever anything bad happens, we automatically blame God? Have you considered the possibility that God had nothing to do with causing your gf's sickness? On the other hand, have you ever considered the possibility that the only reason why your gf is even still alive, despite all those dreadful diseases, is because of God? I can't say one way or another but those are questions to ponder over before passing any sort of premature judgment.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
if god loved my gf he wouldn't have given her polymyositis, fibromyalgia, arthritis, and a host of other diseases before the age of 9.


bastard.

Why is it that whenever anything bad happens, we automatically blame God? Have you considered the possibility that God had nothing to do with causing your gf's sickness? On the other hand, have you ever considered the possibility that the only reason why your gf is even still alive, despite all those dreadful diseases, is because of God? I can't say one way or another but those are questions to ponder over before passing any sort of premature judgment.

That's not how it works. Doctors are the reason she is still alive, God is the reason she needs doctors. In a way, life is a struggle against God's cruelty.

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: So

Wasn't that the plot to an episode of the original Star Trek as well?

Maybe. Star Trek had so much philosophy that classes were made specifically to discuss them.

 

[Xyclone]

WTF?!

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

That's not how it works.

Where did you get the idea that you know how the universe works?

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Doctors are the reason she is still alive,

In the Bible, God is known to work through people. How can you be certain that God didn't send or work through the doctors?

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

God is the reason she needs doctors.

Prove it.

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

In a way, life is a struggle against God's cruelty.

That depends on your perspective.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor
Prove it.

I can't prove what doesn't exist silly I'm just being a stupid religious douche in reverse.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
jesus is a reincarnation of vishnu. lolz.

You are closed-mindedly and intolerantly making fun of those who hold a different view than your own, Inspector Jihad. Every Hindu knows that Jesus cannot a reincarnation of Vishnu because the idea of the resurrection is absurd to Hindus who believes in reincarnation. I suggest you open your mind and think for yourself instead of letting others think for you.

Is this some attempt to be as ironic as possible? Cause you win man. You totally win.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
jesus is a reincarnation of vishnu. lolz.

You are closed-mindedly and intolerantly making fun of those who hold a different view than your own, Inspector Jihad. Every Hindu knows that Jesus cannot a reincarnation of Vishnu because the idea of the resurrection is absurd to Hindus who believes in reincarnation. I suggest you open your mind and think for yourself instead of letting others think for you.

are you telling me that a omnipotent being cant resurrect himself if he fucking feels like it. dude could turn his own shit into unicorns if he felt like it. and anyway, how am i making fun of a different view, i'm just saying that we all believe in the same guy.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: meltdown75
To be able to simply respect the beliefs of others is a lost trait in this world.

Its a two way street, and its a trait that never existed. At this point I view all gods based relgions as fictional works. Just as most people laugh at scientology (which was created by a science fiction author), I laugh at christianity. So how can I respect someone's beliefs?

Surely equating them to fictional works and degrading them as "science fiction" is not one and the same though, or is it?

I guess being cool with everything is just a state of mind...

It's only degrading because you hold them as above criticism. You can be "cool" with someone's beliefs and still question them. When I do so I'm not opressing you or forcing you to do anything, so stop trying to be a victim.

Religious ideas are ideas too. Your definition of tolerance is so one-sided it's laughable. Apparently to be appropriately "tolerant" I have to pander to your ideas by pussyfooting around your values. Jesus Christ, grow up. The scary ideas can't hurt you.

I didn't define anything, and these are not "my" ideas. I'm not religious, folks...
That said, I don't hold anything above criticism! All I am saying is there is a difference between critical thought / discussion and trolling because you have nothing better to do and a chip on your shoulder when it comes to beliefs of others which affect you in no way whatsoever.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: meltdown75
To be able to simply respect the beliefs of others is a lost trait in this world.

You can have any belief you want, you don't ever have to even tell me what your belief is, it's a personal belief so keep it to yourself and we'll get along just fine.

The second you preach to me i'll have a problem with you though because like TallBill, i find your religious beliefs stupid and immature, like you need some kind of father figure because you're not man enough to take care of yourself.

Sounds harsh, i know but unlike preachers and churches and political nartics i'm at least honest, i don't smile and give you blessing with one hand while taking your hard earned money with the other.

^^

I would like to exhibit this type of religious troll as type A. He / she / it (some of them may actually be bots) automatically assumes that because you are simply speaking out about respect and tolerance of the various religions / creeds / beliefs here on Earth that YOU YOURSELF are in fact religious (they often brand you as Christian).

Let me get this straight, i say "You can have any belief you want, you don't ever have to even tell me what your belief is, it's a personal belief so keep it to yourself and we'll get along just fine." and your response is that i assume your religious and call you Christian?

I didn't call YOU anything, i meant the general you and if you don't feel that you belong in that group then you are not one of them i'm talking to.

Get that or do i have to type it slower for you?

No problem. I guess you'll just have to tell me when I was preaching or advocating any one belief. That's where you lost me. If I had a specific belief myself, perhaps I could preach about it...