There's been quite a few replies since I last checked the thread. Thank you all. I've elected to respond to the most critical ones since I last responded.
What city/state is it?
When I was long in SD the salaries on glass door and salaries.com didn't match most ranges I was finding, which surprised me. Even had some companies flat out say they don't pay as much because SD is so nice and the desire to move there is high.
Edit:
And no based on those numbers it is not unreasonable to ask for more. That is a lowball offer like shit imo.
It's in NJ, near Newark.
Like I said, based on what I make and where I currently live, $88k is the adjusted salary based on
https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/hartford-vs-newark-elizabeth .So essentially, $88k is really the bare minimum I should take.
Look at websites like Glassdoor (the best) or Salary.com.
They do a pretty good job in nailing down what the "going rate" for salaries will be in your chosen field and region (i.e. Dallas won't pay the same as SF, for instance).
Look at competing companies salaries as well to get a flavor of the "salary bandwidth."
There should be absolutely no shame in negotiating at the very, very high end of that bandwidth and then settling for something lower. Go for high and negotiate down. Don't start mid and then lower, b/c it'll always settle lower. It's like a court case....ask for a billion and settle for $5 million.
Also if you had RSUs at your old job, ask for that to be matched as well, apples to apples.
And always propagandize by talking highly of your desire to work there. Always pet the dog until the dog wags its tail. Negotiation is human emotion and them liking you a lot can get you that extra $5k or whatever in salary.
So this company is extremely small, I'm not sure if they are on Glassdoor, I will have to look. I also don't think this job title matches what industry typically associates the title with. It's for Application Engineer, which has nothing to do with computer applications... So finding comparable salaries in the state/nation has been hard.
I'm assuming you are still very actively looking for a new job and that you still have feelers out there and putting in a decent amount of daily time to that effort. I'm also assuming you've including benefits into this equation (insurance cost, 401k matching, vacation days other perks like education, health). Final assumption is that you looked at the city and not just the state for the COLA calculations.
With that said, I'd turn down this job based on this information for several reasons.
1. You are currently working, even though it's a shit job (your words), it is low risk and stable until you find something better.
2. This isn't the only opportunity that will come your way. Don't act like this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. If you are going with my assumptions, there will always be somebody out there looking for somebody like you.
3. You have to move for this job? Yeah, I'd factor in the cost, risk and pain-in-the-ass of moving even higher on the required compensation to make it worthwhile.
4. If you told them everything in the quote and they came back with their numbers, they either simply don't see your value or don't see the value in the position itself. Assuming you are a stellar employee with an amazing work ethic, they simply cannot see that or the position itself just doesn't need someone amazing, just someone ok.
5. If it's the fact they don't value their position they are hiring that high, convince them of your value and get them to offer you a higher level position instead. Persuade them that having you on board is very valuable to their company and your level of productivity will pay off.
6. When declining their offer, make it gracious and professional, never burn bridges. "I've strongly considered your offer and I am very grateful for your time. I must turn it down as it does not meet my minimum salary requirements. If at any time in the future you should reconsider the offer or a position with the required salary comes, I would be more than happy to consider it once more.
1) I agree. Problem is the reason it's shitty is not only because of shit management but because it's so niche and it literally makes you obsolete to industry if you stay here long enough. The longer I stay, IMO, the harder it will be for me to leave. Just sayin'.
2) One other factor I consider is that this job is close to my g/f. We broke up a little while back due to distance issues (She is three hours away right now) so the longer we stay apart, the harder it is on us. I totally agree with your statement though, there are plenty of other jobs out there.
3) Moving should be minimal. I'm planning on selling/donating/trashing all my stuff because I would be moving in with my g/f.
4) Basically their statement was, "We understand and respect your number. the $83k +12k bonus will get you to your $95k per year number. We just offer lower base pay and bonuses at the end of the year." However, I tecccchhhnically might not make $95k between this May and next May. I might only get ~93k since I won't be getting the full $12k bonus.
5) I think I did that in my interview. I'm not totally sure what else I can say that I didn't before... I'll have to think on this one.
6) Absolutely. Even at this job, there's a few people I hate working with. I'd never bad mouth them when I leave because who knows, I could come back at some point for any number of reasons.