How much money do you see yourself realistically making ten years from now?

[erwos]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
The average annual salary for a lawyer employed in the private sector is $120k. Assuming I graduate from law school okay, which I start in the fall, I expect to make at least $250k in today's money ten years from now. I am smarter and harder-working than most people, though.

You remind me of that little anecdote about driving: ask a random sample of people what skill their driving level is at, and 95% will respond "above average". Obviously, this cannot be true, and gives you a pretty good indicator of the obvious: most people dramatically overestimate their skills. Maybe you're really smarter and hard-working - but far more likely, you're closer to average. Just something to think about - you're hardly the only one on this thread with that problem.

If I were to use the fuzzy math that some people here seem to be using (largest raise ^ 10 * curr salary), I'd be making something like $175k. That's just totally unrealistic, so going with a far more likely scenario (1.05 ^ 10 * curr salary), it'd be more like $100k. That's a pretty reasonable salary for the DC area, given our relatively high cost of living. I'm also not counting any gains from 401k or IRA investments - just base salary.

I'm also going to be pursuing my MBA soon. Maybe that'll jack up my income, maybe not - but I don't bet on things I don't have. I've got a BS in CS and Economics, and so that's what I'll rely on.

I will say one thing: I'm not willing to trade my marriage or a good relationship with my (still theoretical) children for another hundred grand. Money ain't everything, and a nice paycheck isn't going to make up for a life empty of friends and family.

-Erwos

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: Armitage
Or we have an extraordinary collection of talent and ambition on here - many of whom still manage to have enough spare time from their high pressure careers and wildly succesful love life post lifer in 2 or 3 years

QFT ("ditto" for dullard).

Originally posted by: aswedc

I agree with 91TTZ's doubt, but I do not share his fervor or vitriol. I feel that I have had close personal contact with several successful and ambitious individuals (in finance, but not in law). Based on my experience, I believe that successful individuals would be predisposed against posting on ATOT.

Why is that?

• The time commitments of ambitious educational and professional paths cut back on leisure time.
• I personally assign a pleasure value of zero to posting. I believe this value would be near zero for most successful/ambitious individuals.
  I feel that ATOT provides diverse information (I wouldn't exactly call it a resource), but the benefits are recognized when reading. I don't gain much from posting, and I'm probably around zero benefit for posting when factoring in no replies and minor flames. Assuming that a $100K job provides satisfaction, the satisfaction/pleasure is most likely felt when a difficult task is completed or a paycheck is deposited, not when posting on ATOT to a "how much do you make" thread and getting a half-dozen "shens" replies.

lol...now this is good.

Do you think that people have no free-time at all?

I am married, 27. I have an mba from Florida International (not a huge accomplishment) with a 3.92gpa. While going to grad school I did reviews for a website and was an intern for the president of the university, I worked with McKinsey&co (consultants) to work on funding allocations to the entire FL higher education system.

I also have successfully gone through each CFA level and am hoping to pass level 3 in 3 weeks. If I do, that places me within the top 5% of CFA charterholders (assuming I get the charter). Now, if we take a swag, I would say that only the top 10% of finance professionals take that exam, which places me in the top .5% of finance professionals, if one were to assume that passing each exam in a row extrapolates into superior performance/intelligence (which isn't always true, since it does correlate into the desire and comittment to pass).

The time comittment for the CFA is ~3hr/day, I also work 10hr/day at a fortune 100 company. I also study the entire weekend. Salary has gone from 43k to well over 100k within 3 years.

Yet, I still find time to post once in a while. To apply your metric of everybody else only highlights the fact that you think little of yourself and your abilities. While many of the replies may be "shens", I am sure not even 20% are.

I might agree that many computer people are lazy, but then, as we have seen, not all people on here are strictly computer people. Furthermore, assuming that because somebody is on here *now* and *may* be a lazy computer geek doesn't always translate into what they will be tomorrow.

9 years ago when I started undergrad I was a lazy computer geek. I graduated from a Big10 school with a 2.72 in Psychology and history.

Who says people can't change or be successful if they were once lazy computer geeks?

 

[yhelothar]

Considering it's going to take me over 10 years to finish my Ph.D for my major(neuroscience/bioengineering), I'm still going to be in school in a decade.
But I probably will be a part time prof. with a masters in 10 years, so I'd say around $40k.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: Armitage
Or we have an extraordinary collection of talent and ambition on here - many of whom still manage to have enough spare time from their high pressure careers and wildly succesful love life post lifer in 2 or 3 years

QFT ("ditto" for dullard).

Originally posted by: aswedc

I agree with 91TTZ's doubt, but I do not share his fervor or vitriol. I feel that I have had close personal contact with several successful and ambitious individuals (in finance, but not in law). Based on my experience, I believe that successful individuals would be predisposed against posting on ATOT.

Why is that?

• The time commitments of ambitious educational and professional paths cut back on leisure time.
• I personally assign a pleasure value of zero to posting. I believe this value would be near zero for most successful/ambitious individuals.
  I feel that ATOT provides diverse information (I wouldn't exactly call it a resource), but the benefits are recognized when reading. I don't gain much from posting, and I'm probably around zero benefit for posting when factoring in no replies and minor flames. Assuming that a $100K job provides satisfaction, the satisfaction/pleasure is most likely felt when a difficult task is completed or a paycheck is deposited, not when posting on ATOT to a "how much do you make" thread and getting a half-dozen "shens" replies.

lol...now this is good.

Do you think that people have no free-time at all?

I am married, 27. I have an mba from Florida International (not a huge accomplishment) with a 3.92gpa. While going to grad school I did reviews for a website and was an intern for the president of the university, I worked with McKinsey&co (consultants) to work on funding allocations to the entire FL higher education system.

I also have successfully gone through each CFA level and am hoping to pass level 3 in 3 weeks. If I do, that places me within the top 5% of CFA charterholders (assuming I get the charter). Now, if we take a swag, I would say that only the top 10% of finance professionals take that exam, which places me in the top .5% of finance professionals, if one were to assume that passing each exam in a row extrapolates into superior performance/intelligence (which isn't always true, since it does correlate into the desire and comittment to pass).

The time comittment for the CFA is ~3hr/day, I also work 10hr/day at a fortune 100 company. I also study the entire weekend. Salary has gone from 43k to well over 100k within 3 years.

Yet, I still find time to post once in a while. To apply your metric of everybody else only highlights the fact that you think little of yourself and your abilities. While many of the replies may be "shens", I am sure not even 20% are.

I might agree that many computer people are lazy, but then, as we have seen, not all people on here are strictly computer people. Furthermore, assuming that because somebody is on here *now* and *may* be a lazy computer geek doesn't always translate into what they will be tomorrow.

9 years ago when I started undergrad I was a lazy computer geek. I graduated from a Big10 school with a 2.72 in Psychology and history.

Who says people can't change or be successful if they were once lazy computer geeks?

How much would you say your happiness is connected to how much money you are making?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: Armitage
Or we have an extraordinary collection of talent and ambition on here - many of whom still manage to have enough spare time from their high pressure careers and wildly succesful love life post lifer in 2 or 3 years

QFT ("ditto" for dullard).

Originally posted by: aswedc

I agree with 91TTZ's doubt, but I do not share his fervor or vitriol. I feel that I have had close personal contact with several successful and ambitious individuals (in finance, but not in law). Based on my experience, I believe that successful individuals would be predisposed against posting on ATOT.

Why is that?

• The time commitments of ambitious educational and professional paths cut back on leisure time.
• I personally assign a pleasure value of zero to posting. I believe this value would be near zero for most successful/ambitious individuals.
  I feel that ATOT provides diverse information (I wouldn't exactly call it a resource), but the benefits are recognized when reading. I don't gain much from posting, and I'm probably around zero benefit for posting when factoring in no replies and minor flames. Assuming that a $100K job provides satisfaction, the satisfaction/pleasure is most likely felt when a difficult task is completed or a paycheck is deposited, not when posting on ATOT to a "how much do you make" thread and getting a half-dozen "shens" replies.

lol...now this is good.

Do you think that people have no free-time at all?

I am married, 27. I have an mba from Florida International (not a huge accomplishment) with a 3.92gpa. While going to grad school I did reviews for a website and was an intern for the president of the university, I worked with McKinsey&co (consultants) to work on funding allocations to the entire FL higher education system.

I also have successfully gone through each CFA level and am hoping to pass level 3 in 3 weeks. If I do, that places me within the top 5% of CFA charterholders (assuming I get the charter). Now, if we take a swag, I would say that only the top 10% of finance professionals take that exam, which places me in the top .5% of finance professionals, if one were to assume that passing each exam in a row extrapolates into superior performance/intelligence (which isn't always true, since it does correlate into the desire and comittment to pass).

The time comittment for the CFA is ~3hr/day, I also work 10hr/day at a fortune 100 company. I also study the entire weekend. Salary has gone from 43k to well over 100k within 3 years.

Yet, I still find time to post once in a while. To apply your metric of everybody else only highlights the fact that you think little of yourself and your abilities. While many of the replies may be "shens", I am sure not even 20% are.

I might agree that many computer people are lazy, but then, as we have seen, not all people on here are strictly computer people. Furthermore, assuming that because somebody is on here *now* and *may* be a lazy computer geek doesn't always translate into what they will be tomorrow.

9 years ago when I started undergrad I was a lazy computer geek. I graduated from a Big10 school with a 2.72 in Psychology and history.

Who says people can't change or be successful if they were once lazy computer geeks?

How much would you say your happiness is connected to how much money you are making?

Quite a bit actually.

Take for example my new job. Had I not taken it for a vast amount more than the previous, my wife would have had to work right up until she had a surgery to remove cancer *AND* be working now. Instead, she has taken 4 months off of work to get better.

Add that to the fact that my hard work will enable her to stay home with the kids, providing nurturing and a warm houshold that will pay big time dividends down the road.

Then, consider that we will have more discretionary income, be able to pay down uber-high student loans, open doors to more and higher paying jobs that require less hours, I'd say my quest is pretty damn noble. I will consider my job done when I can put 4 kids through graduate school without them paying a dime or having to take out student loans, unlike me.

If I need to work my arse off and work 70 hour work weeks now to make sure my kids will have me working 40/wk when they grow up, bring it on! Both my parents were blue-collar union workers that worked a lot of OT to keep us fed and clothed, while my sister and I had to take out huge loans to get through school. If I can do what they did and prevent the loans, then I am happy. I need to work hard to do that, especially since I want 4 kids.

Overall, our happiness has greatly improved, as we worry much less.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: JinLien

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: JinLien

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Special K
Are there ANY other engineers posting in this thread? If so, do ANY of them that see any possible way to make big $$? Argh, I think reality hit me in the face much sooner than my other college friends. I knew a guy with an english major who was convinced he would be able to get a job soon after graduation paying $200k because his uncle's friends son did or some other BS.

Depends on what you mean by big $$
If you mean well above the national average and generally considered well off - then yes, it's very possible, and even likely.

If you mean being a millionaire or even breaking 6 figures/year before you hit 30, then no, it's not very likely. It can happen - particularly if you choose the right specialization in the right market, etc. But not likely.

FWIW I broke 6 figures about 12 years after finishing my masters - that's in the aerospace industry with an m.s. and a security clearance in an area with a moderate cost of living (Colorado Springs) and alot of competition for people with my skills. The downside is there are probably only about 6 or 8 areas of the country where I could hope to get a good job in my area of expertise - maybe fewer. At my company, with about 90% of our people in high cost of living areas, the pay seems to level off around $150K - that will likely go up at about the rate of inflation. Across all engineering disciplines, I would guess I'm in the top 10% of my undergrad class.

I have no doubt I could pass $100k as an engineer. I am familiar with the pay scales at a couple of big engineering companies, and they cap out at $170k and $200k. I don't know how representative that is of the industry as a whole, but I would imagine the companies stay relatively close to their competitors in terms of salary and benefits.

That sounds high to me - my company has a reputation for paying very well for the aerospace industry. I've seen scatter charts of the salaries of our entire technical staff and saw very few in that range. And most of our staff is in high cost of living areas. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

I guess the more interesting question raised by this thread, at least for me anyway, is how much money is required for happiness? I have been a student my whole life so far so I really have no idea how much it would take. Would I be 4x happier with $400k/year than with $100k?

If you define your happiness by how much money you make, you'll never be happy. Some of the happiest and most succesful people I've known were dirt poor.

All I know is I get EXTREMELY bitter when people start talking about money, particularly when it's people in fields that traditionally make more than mine.

Honestly I think I'd find something to bitch about no matter what field I had gone into. If I weren't complaining about the "low" pay (i.e. < $500k), then I would be complaining about the long hours and/or how boring the job is.

Does the sun rise in the east in your world also?

Seriously - you need a reality check. The median income in the US is about $40K. Describing less then $500K as "low" income is just absurd.

One of my friend make $91K per annum (in 2000) as a composite consultant/engineer contractor for Boeing in Seattle (don?t know what he is making now because we haven?t talked much since his relationship with my sister didn?t turn out).

What are his degrees? How old?

Composite Eng grad 1994 (he was my best college friend when I did my first deg in industrial design).

That's pretty good for just 6 years past a B.S. Not unreasonable though given the cost of living in the area and the fact that only a few schools have first rate programs in composite materials & structures (my educational background actually) so there's ussually good demand.

 

[fatpat268]

Well, I just finished my first year in college as an aerospace engineering major... so i'm not sure yet. I haven't really explored the possibilities, but I'm realistically hoping for $70K-$80K (not adjusted for inflation), but I could be way off.

Then again, my major isn't quite set in stone, i'm pretty sure it is, but i'm usualy indecisive.

 

[BlackTigers]

$40k a year is more than enough...

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: fatpat268
Well, I just finished my first year in college as an aerospace engineering major... so i'm not sure yet. I haven't really explored the possibilities, but I'm realistically hoping for $70K-$80K (not adjusted for inflation), but I could be way off.

I'm in the aerospace biz right now myself, and that's about what our mid-level engineers are making. This is a relatively high cost-of-living area, though. In fact, that's really kind of what's unstated in a lot of these posts - cost of living means that $100k in some places could be more equivalent to $250k in others, or vica versa.

I also suspect that if we started asking for _current_ salaries vs. the expected-in-10-years salaries that we'd see some interesting trends about the predictions.

-Erwos

 

[Patrick Wolf]

$10

...worthless bum living behind taco bell.

 

[monk3y]

Hopefully ~80K

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
I am the person with the 93rd percentile LSAT and I can confirm the other person with the 99 is real too. I know that is only two out of 100 replies, but let's just say I don't think it's all BS like you seem to.

I'll take you at your word, since candor without defensiveness is something that convinces me. I don't think this thread is all or even mostly BS, but I believe that there is a good amount.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Do you think that people have no free-time at all?

No, I stated that time is typically a scarce resource for successful/ambitious people, and that I believed its scarcity would predispose them against posting on ATOT, since posting on ATOT is a low utility activity, for myself. Granted, I do post (as I am doing now) when I see a thread that particularly interests me.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
To apply your metric of everybody else only highlights the fact that you think little of yourself and your abilities.

I think this comment was unnecessary, especially since your "fact" is nearly opposite the truth.

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
The average annual salary for a lawyer employed in the private sector is $120k. Assuming I graduate from law school okay, which I start in the fall, I expect to make at least $250k in today's money ten years from now. I am smarter and harder-working than most people, though.

While it may be true that average annual income for a family is less than $50k, you have to remember that this includes the lower class and people at the poverty level. It's just like IQ: an average IQ of 100 means that a person is probably quite dull. The average IQ score for normally functioning people is a good deal higher.

I hate to burst your bubble but wait until the 1st semester grades are posted before considering yourself "smarter and harder-working than most people". 1L grades usually lead to a reality check.

I'll bet that most (98%) of entering 1Ls consider themselves smarter than most people.

 

[mephiston5]

80-120k Maybe more if I get lucky.

 

[PrinceofWands]

$45-$55k tops. Absolute tops. Providing I can keep a position that is. Otherwise back down to $25-$35k.

There's nothing quite like spending $60k on a bunch of degrees to have a crapshoot to see if you can pay off the loans.

 

[jmcoreymv]

If I can afford a house mortgage here in CA, I'll be happy. (And not one of those fake interest-only ones either).

 

[yobarman]

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
$10

...worthless bum living behind taco bell.

Hey that's a good 3 meals off the value menu!

I'M FULL!

 

[Maximin]

How bad infaltion will be in the next ten yrs.? Honda Accord EX V6 will cost $60k by then?
I hope I will be no longer working. Lay low and have a place near the beach.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$45-$55k tops. Absolute tops. Providing I can keep a position that is. Otherwise back down to $25-$35k.

There's nothing quite like spending $60k on a bunch of degrees to have a crapshoot to see if you can pay off the loans.

What degrees did you get?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: yobarman

Originally posted by: Patrick Wolf
$10

...worthless bum living behind taco bell.

Hey that's a good 3 meals off the value menu!

I'M FULL!

where i'm from that's only 2 meals

edit: oh didn't see the taco bell reference... never mind me

 

[Maximin]

Originally posted by: jmcoreymv
If I can afford a house mortgage here in CA, I'll be happy. (And not one of those fake interest-only ones either).

I.O. payment is not that bad. you can always pay more than the minimum required when you want to. It's great if your income is not fixed. Your monthly liability is lower. Besides, you can pay I.O. on your first mortgage and pay more toward your higher rate second HELOC if you didn't put 20% down. What's wrong w/ that?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$45-$55k tops. Absolute tops. Providing I can keep a position that is. Otherwise back down to $25-$35k.

There's nothing quite like spending $60k on a bunch of degrees to have a crapshoot to see if you can pay off the loans.

What degrees did you get?

BA in History with a minor in Political Science, BS in Physics, and an MA in Education. All in progress still btw, though only 6 months left on the history. Secondary Ed teachers just don't make that much to start around here... $32-$45k depending, hence my projection of $55k in 10 years.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Maximin

Originally posted by: jmcoreymv
If I can afford a house mortgage here in CA, I'll be happy. (And not one of those fake interest-only ones either).

I.O. payment is not that bad. you can always pay more than the minimum required when you want to. It's great if your income is not fixed. Your monthly liability is lower. Besides, you can pay I.O. on your first mortgage and pay more toward your higher rate second HELOC if you didn't put 20% down. What's wrong w/ that?

the IO will only be for a certain period. After the period ends, you have to start paying principal, and your monthly mortgage will be HIGHER than if you used a normal fixed mortgage from the start since the principal you didnt pay down will be tacked on after the IO period ends.

So basically if your salary is still the same, or if your property doesnt appreciate, then u are screwed.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$45-$55k tops. Absolute tops. Providing I can keep a position that is. Otherwise back down to $25-$35k.

There's nothing quite like spending $60k on a bunch of degrees to have a crapshoot to see if you can pay off the loans.

What degrees did you get?

BA in History with a minor in Political Science, BS in Physics, and an MA in Education. All in progress still btw, though only 6 months left on the history.

you can live on 45k a year? and support a family on that salary?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
$45-$55k tops. Absolute tops. Providing I can keep a position that is. Otherwise back down to $25-$35k.

There's nothing quite like spending $60k on a bunch of degrees to have a crapshoot to see if you can pay off the loans.

What degrees did you get?

BA in History with a minor in Political Science, BS in Physics, and an MA in Education. All in progress still btw, though only 6 months left on the history.

you can live on 45k a year? and support a family on that salary?

I don't really have a family, just my daughter part-time, and my dad a little. But even when married with a kid full time we lived fine on $20-30k. Cost of living is nothing here, and I'm a very simple person with regards to expenses. After the divorce I was living on $8-16k a year with no real complaints. The average household income around here is probably in the $24k range.

If you avoid all debt (except arguably a home loan), live within your means, stay away from anything trendy or designer, eat at home primarily (or better yet, grow a little extra fruits and veggies, hunt and/or fish), and live in a non-metro area you honestly don't need much money to live.

Just remember that the national average household income (not individual) is what, $44k? Then think of everyone that makes more than that, sometimes billions more, and realize how many people have to make less than that to make it the average. Most people in America live on less than $40k a year. Period, and absolute fact. All the dreams and desires for six figure salaries are fine, but reality is reality.