How much should a homebuyer spend on refurbishing a house?

[mithrandir2001]

In two weeks, I'll be signing the papers for my "new" house. My mind is on money, of course, because I will be spending a lot of it over the next month or so. The house I am buying is in above-average condition, but I still need to "dump" a bit of money into it to bring it up to my satisfaction. I'm wondering how much money a typical homebuyer spends on refurbishing an existing house.

For example, I will/may be:

1) replacing outdoor heat pump with a York HE 30000 BTU unit and replacing indoor blower unit with matching equipment. Estimated installed cost: $3500. The seller is giving me a $1300 credit for the heat pump because it got vandalized and it cannot be fully repaired to new condition. I made the decision to replace the unit.
2) replacing 1 single- and 3 double-wide windows with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood double low E replacement windows. Estimated installed cost: $3000
3) replacing aluminum sliding glass door with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood sliding glass door. Estimated installed cost: $1500
4) replacing upstairs carpet with similar synthetic carpet. Estimated installed cost: $1250
5) repainting about 60% of house to reflect a desired color scheme. Estimated cost: $1250

I'm not necessarily going to do all these things, but that's a potential $10K+ for a $130K 2 bedroom townhouse. Of course, new heater/AC, windows, doors, carpet and paint are some major improvements, certainly increasing the value of the property, but I don't want to get ridiculous and have to sell for a loss should I have to move within 2-3 years. What's reasonable?

 

[BoberFett]

Unless you got an amazing deal on the place (like a HUD house) don't fix it up for an investment. Fix it up so that you'll like living there. You will almost never get back what you put into a house. The value will go up, but not as much as it costs to do.

Check this page

I don't know how accurate it is, but I've seen similar articles and lists before.

 

[Cerebus451]

The heat pump and windows are definitely worth a little investment, since they will give a definite return on investment through lowered utility bills, but only give marginal gain when selling. As far as painting and carpets, unless you really cannot stand what's there, you can generally leave that stuff alone to do at a later time (and they won't likely add much value - actually, painting will reduce the value because your color scheme will never match that of a potential buyer and you will have to repaint in neutral colors before selling, and unless the carpet is completely worn, that's something you can put off until you decide to sell). The carpet in the master bedroom of my house looked like total crap. However, after running a steam vac over it and putting in furniture, I don't notice it much so I have not bothered to replace. I also don't care about color schemes, so my walls have stayed off-white since I moved in.

Overall, you aren't looking at much. It's when you start ripping out bathroom fixtures, or redoing the kitchen, or adding an addition that you are talking about a serious investment (I think finishing a basement is typically the holy grail as far as ROI when selling a house).

 

[Ornery]

Hmmm, I see I have a difference of opinion with Cerebus. I'd say you'll get more ROI for the windows and sliders when you sell, than you'll realize in fuel savings. Either way, I wouldn't bother with replacing them unless they don't function at all.

The AC will need replacing every 7-10 years anyway, so go for it. Same with carpet and paint.

"carpet and paint are some major improvements"

Uh, not really. Those are just standard upkeep. major improvement is kitchen or bath remodel. A room addition also would be. Siding might be, but a roof is normal wear and tear.

 

[XZeroII]

depends what kind of computer you want to put in there...

 

[mithrandir2001]

The tough part is that everything "passed" inspection, i.e. nothing needs to be replaced absolutely. I'm just thinking that if there's a very good chance an item will need to be replaced within the next 5 years (best guess for how long I expect to live at this house), I want to do it now because the house will be unfurnished and unoccupied and I can enjoy the improvements immediately. It sucks to replace stuff and spend money on major items just before you sell.

No, carpet and paint aren't "major" improvements, but they aren't majorly expensive and they can have a major impact on the way a house looks. I shouldn't have said color scheme, I should have said paint finish...what I don't like about the current paint is that most of it has a satin finish and I can't stand shiny walls, even if they are resistant to marks and dirt. I like the look of flat paint. In terms of upstairs carpet I'm thinking: the place is empty...it would be a piece of cake to replace them now than later, though frankly I have not truly looked at their condition; they could be fine wearwise, but their color isn't my preference. I guess I just have the remodelling bug.

They recommend you upgrade your house to your specifications rather than whomever buys it afterwards, but since most durable products I buy end up on eBay when I get tired of them, I have an instinctive acuteness about salability: "I don't own this; I'm merely keeping care of it for the next person, who will pay me top dollar".

 

[meister]

Spend only what you can afford. If you are buying it at appraised value, don't thing that your 10k improvement will add 10k to your future sell price. More than likely it will add to your satisfaction while living there and when you sell, improve the way people look at your place over the others in the neighborhood.

Mark

 

[Evadman]

Home depot empolyee here

2) replacing 1 single- and 3 double-wide windows with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood double low E replacement windows. Estimated installed cost: $3000

I hope you aer doing these estimates, and not from an outside company. That $3000 is HUGE for what amounts to 7 windows. The windows themselves would run you about $1500 for Andersen. They are hugely easy to install, take a day off and do it yourself. IF you want soemone else to do it, have HD install for about $500 a hole, for a total of between 2300-2600.

3) replacing aluminum sliding glass door with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood sliding glass door. Estimated installed cost: $1500

That is a little low. A wood interior vinyl exterior clad door from andersen is $1181 if you want a brass handle, 1007 for white ( yes I have those memorized. Guess what dept I work in ) Look for a $500 install labor for about $1700 or so total.

Make sure to get low/e ( also called low/e^2 ) glass. That glass has almost 2x the insulating efficency of std IG glass ( regular 2 pane thick glass ) Andersen comes std with low/e Pella is extra.

One thing to remember on your patio door. You will never notice this untill it is too late, so I will say it now. Pella puts the siding panel on the outside of the stationary pnl. This is so it seals better when the wind blows ( yes it works, but not by any meningful margin ) The problem is, that means the screen has to be on the inside. Screen on inside + pets = wrecked screen. Also (and this makes perfect sence) you have to open the screen to close the door. ( and let all the bugs in ) Also, witht he moving pnl on the outside, that means the track is unprotected, so if you get snow ( or cold winters ) the crack will be full of snow so it will not open.

<---- Recomends Andersen!

If you want other info on either andersen or pella let me know. I have been selling them for a long time Or if you have any questions on anything home related. If I don't know, I will find someone who does.

 

[mithrandir2001]

<< 2) replacing 1 single- and 3 double-wide windows with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood double low E replacement windows. Estimated installed cost: $3000

I hope you aer doing these estimates, and not from an outside company. That $3000 is HUGE for what amounts to 7 windows. The windows themselves would run you about $1500 for Andersen. They are hugely easy to install, take a day off and do it yourself. IF you want soemone else to do it, have HD install for about $500 a hole, for a total of between 2300-2600. >>


I'm using the estimator tools on improvenet.com and I picked the high value of the range they suggested. I will pay to have them professionally installed simply because I am a "full-service" type individual.


<< 3) replacing aluminum sliding glass door with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood sliding glass door. Estimated installed cost: $1500

That is a little low. A wood interior vinyl exterior clad door from andersen is $1181 if you want a brass handle, 1007 for white ( yes I have those memorized. Guess what dept I work in ) Look for a $500 install labor for about $1700 or so total. >>


I was at Lowe's last weekend (eeeew, the competitor) and I saw a nice Pella Pro-Line sliding door for $722 stand-alone or $1147 installed. I added some extra $$$ for colonial slat inserts, screen door, track lock, etc. A comparable Andersen door costs that much more? The guy at Lowe's says they had some contract with Pella that gets them very low prices.

I am aware of the Pella's "backwards" orientation and didn't think too much of it, but you DID bring up something I hadn't considered: snow/ice. I live in the northeast so getting ice in that exterior track could be a problem. Something for me to think about.

 

[GermyBoy]

Sell as is with no warranty and tell them they can have your fridge, "FREE OF CHARGE!!!" That's how we sold my grandmas house, and boy is it small. $500k in da pockets!

 

[rahvin]

<< 2) replacing 1 single- and 3 double-wide windows with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood double low E replacement windows. Estimated installed cost: $3000
3) replacing aluminum sliding glass door with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood sliding glass door. Estimated installed cost: $1500
4) replacing upstairs carpet with similar synthetic carpet. Estimated installed cost: $1250
5) repainting about 60% of house to reflect a desired color scheme. Estimated cost: $1250 >>



I would do all these myself. When you pay someone to do it, they will do a worse job than you can (generally) and you will pay way more than it's worth for them to do it. Painting is one of the easiest things in the world to do and putting in windows and doors is EASY if the sizes match.

You rarely get what you pay for in the construction business.

 

[Evadman]

The Pella doors that Lowes sells are the same ones Home Depot sells ( we sold them in the chicago land area for $729 ) They do not have the low/e glass. Ask about it.

Even ask them on the low/e. It will pay for itself in as little as 3 months ( the upcharge to go to low/e ) What part of the country do you live in? We have a chart at work to figure out just how much $$ you would save per year with 21 sq feet of low/e vs. ig glass. ( 21 square feet is about 2/3 the amount on one patio door. )

The prices I quoted are the prices with allt he "optional" stuff that is not in the base price. here is andersen's break down here in chicago...

andersen Door $963
Brass hardware $129
Screen $ 89
Total = $1181. ( if you want to know, the grilles for andersen would be $121 )

Pella door $781
Screen $113
Handle $0 (included, but is not brass )
total = $894

The Andersen door is the FWG model ( French wood glider ) It has MUCH more wood than the pells does ( the frame around the glass is almost 7 inches vs pella's 3 1/2 wide ) so it is more expensive. Andersen started to feel the heat and released a "200" series door that has the same frame size as Pella, and in out area it is exactly the same price as the pella. We sell the crap out of them, but the FWG model is still mroe popular.

And I do not mind people shopping at Lowes, I own stock in them

P.S. when I started, I sold more pella till I started getting the complaints. I never thought about the door orentation before either, but now I know better. I found that customers can be useful on occasion

 

[Farmall]

Install the windows and slider yourself - would give you roughly $2000 to put somewhere else in your house rather than pad someone else's wallet.

You also stated the possibility of moving in 2-3 years, I don't think you will have gotten your closeing costs back by then so if its the case I wouldn't do anything to it until you know for sure its a keeper. unless the market is going up fast.

 

[hammer01]

Yeppers I actually installed new carpet throughout my house, replaced several windows, and replumbed as well as rewired my home, I got it for such a great price though that all of it was worth it. I spent approximately 1/2 of the cost I purchased the house for but I am selling it for approximately 2.5 times the amount I purchased it for.

 

[mithrandir2001]

I see a bit of encouragement to do most of the installation work myself. But I'm no handyman in either skill or desire. I think along the lines of what someone posted in a home repair forum: "I like to throw money at a problem. The work is done in a day and it's done right and looks right."

My father does most home upgrades himself. He's far more adept with home repair than I am, but it takes him forever to fix or refurbish anything and there's always problems that come up in the process, sometimes remedied by "rigging" something. I'm risk-averse and I just don't want to spend my free time doing that kind of stuff. Sure, I might save money but my time is worth a lot. I also believe in the division of labor: I develop software, so-and-so installs doors and windows and so-and-so paints walls and installs carpets. I keep laborers employed.


<< Even ask them on the low/e. It will pay for itself in as little as 3 months ( the upcharge to go to low/e ) What part of the country do you live in? We have a chart at work to figure out just how much $$ you would save per year with 21 sq feet of low/e vs. ig glass. ( 21 square feet is about 2/3 the amount on one patio door. ) >>


I live in PA and I have a corner unit that has southern and western exposure, which means sun coverage most of the day. The slider will face almost due south, so I'd definitely want to get the low E glass for that application.


<< The Andersen door is the FWG model ( French wood glider ) It has MUCH more wood than the pells does ( the frame around the glass is almost 7 inches vs pella's 3 1/2 wide ) so it is more expensive. Andersen started to feel the heat and released a "200" series door that has the same frame size as Pella, and in out area it is exactly the same price as the pella. We sell the crap out of them, but the FWG model is still mroe popular. >>


I've seen Andersen's FWG on their website and it certainly looks aesthetically appealing, but I'm not sure I want more wood. Since I'm in a townhouse, you want as much light as possible and a slider with lots of wood may block that desired sunlight.

I'm kinda partial to hinged patio doors because they look more dramatic and are more secure and if I got outward swinging models, I wouldn't lose any dining room space when opening them. But I rarely see hinged patio doors with screens and that's a requirement because I plan to use the door for ventilation. Hinged doors are also a bit more expensive, I think.

 

[docmanhattan]

<< Hmmm, I see I have a difference of opinion with Cerebus. I'd say you'll get more ROI for the windows and sliders when you sell, than you'll realize in fuel savings. Either way, I wouldn't bother with replacing them unless they don't function at all.

The AC will need replacing every 7-10 years anyway, so go for it. Same with carpet and paint.

"carpet and paint are some major improvements"

Uh, not really. Those are just standard upkeep. major improvement is kitchen or bath remodel. A room addition also would be. Siding might be, but a roof is normal wear and tear. >>

My wife and I just bought a house and someone told us that Kitchen and master bathroom improvements/remodeling yeild the most gain to a house's value. Is that true?

 

[amdskip]

Do the painting yourself and save a bundle of money. I understand you don't want to tackle the windows and slider yourself so you need save money somewhere and the painting is the best place. On the carpet, you may be better off going to a lesser retailish carpet store that only sells carpet, not installs it. Then, find a local carpet contractor and have them install it. Big carpet retail stores offer installed prices because this looks more appealing to the average home owner because all they have to do is pick out the color and style and the store takes care of the rest of the details. Just go to Wal-mart and get your paint. The paint has a 15 year warranty and is $8.94 a gallon for flat. I know this because I work there. The paint is manufactured by valspar which is actually pretty good paint.

 

[vi edit]

<< My wife and I just bought a house and someone told us that Kitchen and master bathroom improvements/remodeling yeild the most gain to a house's value. Is that true? >>



I have no empirical evidence here, but the master bathroom and kitchen are two of the most common places that I personally, as well as friends and families have always wished to be bigger. If you remodel your bath/kitchen and make them bigger, and with more storage and better accessability, I would imagine that it would be the best sort of remodeling you could do.

This is assuming that you don't have a basement that could be finished off. I agree that the unfinished basement would be the best thing that you could do if it wasn't done already.

 

[notfred]

<< How much should a homebuyer spend on refurbishing a house? >>



That's determined by how long this homebuyer lives in the house. Most decent people will be constantly upgrading thier house, or at the very least, keeping it nice in it's current state (cleaning, fixing things that break, etc)

My parents bought thier house about 5 years ago now for $245,000. They've put at least $100,000 into upgrades since then. They put in a driveway and lawn, removed a pool, took out some trees, put in wood floors, built a $50k garage, got a new dishwasher, remodelled the kitchen, repainted the entire inside, etc...

You can spend a lot on your house. If you plan on selling in two years, well, you probably won't want to do that. BUt, my family has the oidea that this house is staying ours for good. If my parents want to move, they'll buy another house and rent this one out. Real Estate makes good investments.

 

[Jerboy]

<< In two weeks, I'll be signing the papers for my "new" house. My mind is on money, of course, because I will be spending a lot of it over the next month or so. The house I am buying is in above-average condition, but I still need to "dump" a bit of money into it to bring it up to my satisfaction. I'm wondering how much money a typical homebuyer spends on refurbishing an existing house. >>



For example, I will/may be:



<< 1) replacing outdoor heat pump with a York HE 30000 BTU unit and replacing indoor blower unit with matching equipment. Estimated installed cost: $3500. The seller is giving me a $1300 credit for the heat pump because it got vandalized and it cannot be fully repaired to new condition. I made the decision to replace the unit. >>



Well I've yet to hear HVAC equipment getting vandalized on residential property. You might want to consider the possibility of another shot of vandalism before considering a large investment on it. Are you sure you need a heat pump as opposed to standard A/C and a gas heater?



<<
2) replacing 1 single- and 3 double-wide windows with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood double low E replacement windows. Estimated installed cost: $3000 >>



Whats wrong with your current window?

3) replacing aluminum sliding glass door with Pella/Andersen vinyl-clad wood sliding glass door. Estimated installed cost: $1500
4) replacing upstairs carpet with similar synthetic carpet. Estimated installed cost: $1250



<<
5) repainting about 60% of house to reflect a desired color scheme. Estimated cost: $1250 >>



I don't think this is worth it. I'd put this on lowest priority.



<<
I'm not necessarily going to do all these things, but that's a potential $10K+ for a $130K 2 bedroom townhouse. Of course, new heater/AC, windows, doors, carpet and paint are some major improvements, certainly increasing the value of the property, but I don't want to get ridiculous and have to sell for a loss should I have to move within 2-3 years. What's reasonable? >>



Personally, I feel that your returns on the windows will be far less than your investment.

 

[Cerebus451]

<< I live in PA >>


Eeek. And you are talking about heat pumps? Ouch. I lived in Virginia in an apartment with a heat pump and that thing could not keep up with a Virginia winter. I guess you are kind of stuck with it since it would be a major job to try and get a real furnace into the place, but I hope you like cold drafts in the winter.

As for the carpets and paint, I'd repaint if all the walls had a satin finish on them. Just keep in mind that if you choose colors, you will likely have to repaint with off-white before you sell the house again. With the carpets, it's a matter of what you can live with. The carpet in my master bedroom is right nasty by carpet standards, but by the time I added a bed and dresser into the room, you just don't notice the carpet at all. If I sell the house I'd leave the carpet in there, but I would tell any potential buyers that I would buy the new carpeting for them before they moved in. That way the buyers get the best of both worlds - they get new carpeting, and they get to choose the color they want.

 

[Ornery]

"My wife and I just bought a house and someone told us that Kitchen and master bathroom improvements/remodeling yeild the most gain to a house's value. Is that true?"

Those are the most expensive remodeling projects you can do. Not sure how much they'll return later when you sell. The most bang for the buck improvement is painting and cleaning. Those remodeling jobs could range from $3,000-$8,000+ for a bathroom and $10,000-$25,000 (and more) for the kitchen.

All in all, it doesn't seem like too much of a waste to put money in your house, when you compare that to the price of cars. Hell, people don't think twice about having a couple cars worth $25,000 each, which are merely going to rust away over the years. You spend a hell of a lot more time in that house to enjoy the improvements and will get a good part of that investment back in the end.

 

[Cerebus451]

<< Those are the most expensive remodeling projects you can do. Not sure how much they'll return later when you sell. The most bang for the buck improvement is painting and cleaning. Those remodeling jobs could range from $3,000-$8,000+ for a bathroom and $10,000-$25,000 (and more) for the kitchen. >>


Actually they do studies on this all the time. It used to be finishing a basement had the best ROI when it translated to resale value, but I think that has actually been surpassed by a kitchen/bathroom remodel. Of course, this really depends on the state of the kitchen/bathroom being remoded, but if you've got a 70's kitchen, not remodeling could prevent you from selling the house.

Of course, painting is almost a necessity these days. For some reason a person can walk into a house for sale, see all off-white walls and be able to picture the paint scheme they want. But, if even one wall is actually colored, they just can't picture living in the house.

 

[mithrandir2001]

When you have a townhouse, the amount of improvements you can perform is a little limited: I can't build an addition or a garage. I can't knock down walls. There is no basement to refinish. In terms of structural improvements, I'd like to do something with the master bath since it is basic (vanity, toilet, shower tub), somewhat small and has 4 interior walls; no skylights or windows. But frankly, I don't know what I could do without spending a ton of money. The bathroom's appeal is limited because of the floor plan design; condition-wise, it's fine.

The kitchen was refurbished 2 years ago: it has new cabinet doors (internal frames look original) and vinyl flooring and the range and dishwasher are newer. It also has a 21.4 cu ft side-by-side fridge, which is massive for a single person (not that I'm complaining). The kitchen is nice and usuable and part of the reason why I bought the house, so here's a case where doing something with the kitchen pays dividends.

I'm going to have a pull-down staircase put into the attic, since there is already flooring up there. It may be an $300-$500 investment that more than pays for itself since I don't have a basement and this would provide fairly easy and plentiful storage access...a selling feature, plus I'll really use it myself.

As for the heat pump, my house is completely electric and I cannot get oil or gas heating. I know how people moan and groan about heat pumps, but I don't know if they are talking about a 1985-era heat pump or a 2002 heat pump. I personally do not like a really warm house...I rarely set the thermostat past 65 degrees in the winter; sometimes I set it to 62. I'm not terribly concerned about coldness.

The windows are originals, so they are about 15 years old. At such an age, they could stand replacing since builders generally use cheap windows for standard construction. They are the kind that require pulling these spring-loaded tabs inward to move the window up and down...incovenient and they don't look like they provide a nice, tight seal. And they're single panes + storms. I want double-hung double-pane windows. But maybe I don't need Pella/Andersen grade windows. My parents have vinyl CertainTeed windows that have performed fine in the last 5 years.

 

[Evadman]

Andersen and Pella windows are what are called "new Construction" windows. They have a frame. You tear out the old window, frame and all and put in the new window.

CertainTeed windows ( and most vinyl windows) are "replacement windows". With these you leave the old frame in and just replace the "guts" of the old window. As long as the old frame is ok, you can do this, and get 90+% of the energy efficency of an andersen with only 60-70% of the cost.

If you go with those, a blind monkey with one arm can put them in. I install them on occasion, adnt hey take me less than 30 min per window to install because they are custom sized to the 1/4" to fit in your opening. they are held in with 4 screws and sealed with caulk. If you do decide to go with these windows, I would sugjest you buy them from Home Depot / Lowes or someone who is not going to go out of buisness any time soon ( anyone but sears, they are $$ as all hell ) as a lifetime warrantee ( which 99% of all vinyl windows have ) is only good for as long as the company is in buisness.