How old is the world according to Theologists?

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
can someone please quote the bible passage that says how old the Earth is?

I can't recall any specific passages, it's more of a calculation arrived at by tracing the lineage of modern man back to Adam. I do recall some passages in the apocalyptic books referring to the earth ending in the 7th (current) millenium, however.

but who's to say that the Earth was created the moment before Adam was created? IIRC, those were on different "days"

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
can someone please quote the bible passage that says how old the Earth is?

oh really? that's pretty interesting!!!

quoting yourself is pretty interesting

 

[Entity]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Ameesh


the bible also says the value of pi is 3 do you believe that too? or are mathematicians wrong about that too?

I hope this is sarcasm...

I think Ameesh is referring to this passage:

1 Kings 7:23 He [Solomon] made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim [diameter = 10] and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it

...but I've seen a number of sites that debunk this claim (or claim that it was misinterpreted). That gives you context on what Ameesh was referring to, though.

Rob

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

Perhaps you don't hate me but your words indicate otherwise. I don't dismiss science altogether, I dismiss scientists who are no less human than I and are just as fallible. Science is not perfect as it is a creation of man. Science can never explain everything. The day it does, is the day life ceases to have meaning.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
can someone please quote the bible passage that says how old the Earth is?

I can't recall any specific passages, it's more of a calculation arrived at by tracing the lineage of modern man back to Adam. I do recall some passages in the apocalyptic books referring to the earth ending in the 7th (current) millenium, however.

but who's to say that the Earth was created the moment before Adam was created? IIRC, those were on different "days"

The earth was created on the first day and man was created on the sixth. I wasn't at the creation so I can't say that the days referred to in Genesis were literal days from firsthand experience, but that is my belief.

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

yeah conjur, your words are very condescending. I suggest you keep this mainly to a debate and not a flamewar, or else this topic is pointless

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

Perhaps you don't hate me but your words indicate otherwise. I don't dismiss science altogether, I dismiss scientists who are no less human than I and are just as fallible. Science is not perfect as it is a creation of man. Science can never explain everything. The day it does, is the day life ceases to have meaning.

No one has ever said it is perfect. It is, however, pretty damn accurate given our current knowledge and technology. It's really quite obvious the universe (and the earth) are much older than 6,000 years.

Think about this, do you honestly think the first living creatures on earth were capable of language and writing???

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

Perhaps you don't hate me but your words indicate otherwise. I don't dismiss science altogether, I dismiss scientists who are no less human than I and are just as fallible. Science is not perfect as it is a creation of man. Science can never explain everything. The day it does, is the day life ceases to have meaning.

So....how is the bible anything buy imperfect then as it is the work of man?

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Ameesh


the bible also says the value of pi is 3 do you believe that too? or are mathematicians wrong about that too?

I hope this is sarcasm...

I think Ameesh is referring to this passage:

1 Kings 7:23 He [Solomon] made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim [diameter = 10] and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it

...but I've seen a number of sites that debunk this claim (or claim that it was misinterpreted). That gives you context on what Ameesh was referring to, though.

Rob

The problem with that is that no one alive today can truly say what the length of a cubit was. Besides that, I've never seen a passage in the Bible refer to *exact* figures such as 31.415926535 cubits

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
can someone please quote the bible passage that says how old the Earth is?

I can't recall any specific passages, it's more of a calculation arrived at by tracing the lineage of modern man back to Adam. I do recall some passages in the apocalyptic books referring to the earth ending in the 7th (current) millenium, however.

but who's to say that the Earth was created the moment before Adam was created? IIRC, those were on different "days"

The earth was created on the first day and man was created on the sixth. I wasn't at the creation so I can't say that the days referred to in Genesis were literal days from firsthand experience, but that is my belief.

Well there's the main thing then. I personally believe that they are not literal days. Such is the case with the millenium. Everyone thought in 2000, the rapture would come, but lo and behold, nothing. I don't think you can take those days to quite so literal

 

[Entity]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Ameesh


the bible also says the value of pi is 3 do you believe that too? or are mathematicians wrong about that too?

I hope this is sarcasm...

I think Ameesh is referring to this passage:

1 Kings 7:23 He [Solomon] made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim [diameter = 10] and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it

...but I've seen a number of sites that debunk this claim (or claim that it was misinterpreted). That gives you context on what Ameesh was referring to, though.

Rob

The problem with that is that no one alive today can truly say what the length of a cubit was. Besides that, I've never seen a passage in the Bible refer to *exact* figures such as 31.415926535 cubits

So the Bible isn't exact in its numerical reckoning, then? The length of the cubit wouldn't matter, of course, because it would still be 10 x Pi. I can see both sides of the argument, though.

I gotta go workout, but if you post any links I'll read them. While I definitely believe in the 4.55bill figure, I'd be interested to hear (or read) what evidence there is on your side of things -- if you can post it that would be great. If not, I guess this will stay as another ATOT religious vs. anti-religious thread.

Rob

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur


Yep, that's exactly what I think.

Whether or not you acknowledge it, your words speak for themselves. I don't need to put words in your mouth to demonstrate your hatred for me, you do that quite well on your own.

I don't hate you, dude. I hate the fact you dismiss science as a bunch of malarkey. It's insanity to do so but I guess that's what taking such a radically fundamentalist view of the Bible does to people.

Perhaps you don't hate me but your words indicate otherwise. I don't dismiss science altogether, I dismiss scientists who are no less human than I and are just as fallible. Science is not perfect as it is a creation of man. Science can never explain everything. The day it does, is the day life ceases to have meaning.

No one has ever said it is perfect. It is, however, pretty damn accurate given our current knowledge and technology. It's really quite obvious the universe (and the earth) are much older than 6,000 years.

Think about this, do you honestly think the first living creatures on earth were capable of language and writing???

The first living creatures on earth were not intelligent. The Bible even states otherwise (animals were created before man). I think this is why evolution is appealing even to Christians, because many people don't believe that the Bible is literal.
As for why I put my faith in G-d rather than man, I must yet again refer to my previous statements regarding the infalibility of man and science.

 

[conjur]

Guess I should have written that as the first Humans.

 

[matt426malm]

"'That is not an opinion. It is aliteral fact, which the bishop arrived at through carful computation of the ages of the prophets as set down in the old testament. Infact, he determined that the lord began his creation on the 23rd of october in the year 4004 B.C. at- uh, at 9 am,' stated Bryan."

"'Was that Eastern Standard time? Or Rockey moiuntiamn time? Or was it day light savings time? Because the lord didn't make the sun until the forth day!'says Darrow."

"That is correct."

"The first day was it a twenty four hour day?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"There wasn't any sun. How do you know how long it was?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"What do you think?"

"I do not think about things like that... I do not think about!"

"Do you ever think about the things that you do think about? Isn't it possible that the first day was twenty five hours long? There was no way to measure it, no way to tell! Could it have been a twenty five hour day?"

"It is... possible..."

"Oh. You interpret the first day recorded in the book of genisus could be of indertermined length."

"I mean to state that thje day referred to is not necessarilly a twenty-four hour day."

"It could have been thirty hours! Or a month! Or a year! Or a hundred years! Or ten million years!"

"Davenport says,'I protest! This not only irrelevant immaterial, -- it is illegal! I demand to know the purpose of Mr. Drummond's questioning! What is he trying to do?'"

"I'll tellyou what he's trying to do! He wants to destroy everybody's belief in the Bible and in God!"

"You know that's not true! I'm trying to stop you bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States!"

From one of my favorite books, quite relevant I believe.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp


Well there's the main thing then. I personally believe that they are not literal days. Such is the case with the millenium. Everyone thought in 2000, the rapture would come, but lo and behold, nothing. I don't think you can take those days to quite so literal

:beer: to each his own! You say tomaeto, I say tomahto

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: matt426malm
"'That is not an opinion. It is aliteral fact, which the bishop arrived at through carful computation of the ages of the prophets as set down in the old testament. Infact, he determined that the lord began his creation on the 23rd of october in the year 4004 B.C. at- uh, at 9 am,' stated Bryan."

"'Was that Eastern Standard time? Or Rockey moiuntiamn time? Or was it day light savings time? Because the lord didn't make the sun until the forth day!'says Darrow."

"That is correct."

"The first day was it a twenty four hour day?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"There wasn't any sun. How do you know how long it was?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"What do you think?"

"I do not think about things like that... I do not think about!"

"Do you ever think about the things that you do think about? Isn't it possible that the first day was twenty five hours long? There was no way to measure it, no way to tell! Could it have been a twenty five hour day?"

"It is... possible..."

"Oh. You interpret the first day recorded in the book of genisus could be of indertermined length."

"I mean to state that thje day referred to is not necessarilly a twenty-four hour day."

"It could have been thirty hours! Or a month! Or a year! Or a hundred years! Or ten million years!"

"Davenport says,'I protest! This not only irrelevant immaterial, -- it is illegal! I demand to know the purpose of Mr. Drummond's questioning! What is he trying to do?'"

"I'll tellyou what he's trying to do! He wants to destroy everybody's belief in the Bible and in God!"

"You know that's not true! I'm trying to stop you bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States!"

From one of my favorite books, quite relevant I believe.

Mildly amusing but quite meaningless. If you believe the Bible to be the word of God, you think God didn't know how long a day was without the sun there to show him?!

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Entity

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: Ameesh


the bible also says the value of pi is 3 do you believe that too? or are mathematicians wrong about that too?

I hope this is sarcasm...

I think Ameesh is referring to this passage:

1 Kings 7:23 He [Solomon] made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim [diameter = 10] and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it

...but I've seen a number of sites that debunk this claim (or claim that it was misinterpreted). That gives you context on what Ameesh was referring to, though.

Rob

The problem with that is that no one alive today can truly say what the length of a cubit was. Besides that, I've never seen a passage in the Bible refer to *exact* figures such as 31.415926535 cubits

So the Bible isn't exact in its numerical reckoning, then? The length of the cubit wouldn't matter, of course, because it would still be 10 x Pi. I can see both sides of the argument, though.

I gotta go workout, but if you post any links I'll read them. While I definitely believe in the 4.55bill figure, I'd be interested to hear (or read) what evidence there is on your side of things -- if you can post it that would be great. If not, I guess this will stay as another ATOT religious vs. anti-religious thread.

Rob

My thoughts on the whole pi thing have already been summed up. I can't think of a single passage in the Bible that one could truly derive the value of pi from. The writers of the Bible simply didn't go into hundredths and thousandths of a cubit when discussing such things. I don't believe they even had a decimal system back then (they being the authors of the OT).
Regarding the age of the earth: what more can I say? (to quote Jigga) If one took the Bible to be literal truth (as I do) then one could calculate the age of the earth based on the lineage of man traced back to Adam.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: conjur
Guess I should have written that as the first Humans.

I've already answered your question. The answer is yes. It is my belief that the first humans were intelligent (would they be humans if they weren't?)

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: matt426malm
"'That is not an opinion. It is aliteral fact, which the bishop arrived at through carful computation of the ages of the prophets as set down in the old testament. Infact, he determined that the lord began his creation on the 23rd of october in the year 4004 B.C. at- uh, at 9 am,' stated Bryan."

"'Was that Eastern Standard time? Or Rockey moiuntiamn time? Or was it day light savings time? Because the lord didn't make the sun until the forth day!'says Darrow."

"That is correct."

"The first day was it a twenty four hour day?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"There wasn't any sun. How do you know how long it was?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"What do you think?"

"I do not think about things like that... I do not think about!"

"Do you ever think about the things that you do think about? Isn't it possible that the first day was twenty five hours long? There was no way to measure it, no way to tell! Could it have been a twenty five hour day?"

"It is... possible..."

"Oh. You interpret the first day recorded in the book of genisus could be of indertermined length."

"I mean to state that thje day referred to is not necessarilly a twenty-four hour day."

"It could have been thirty hours! Or a month! Or a year! Or a hundred years! Or ten million years!"

"Davenport says,'I protest! This not only irrelevant immaterial, -- it is illegal! I demand to know the purpose of Mr. Drummond's questioning! What is he trying to do?'"

"I'll tellyou what he's trying to do! He wants to destroy everybody's belief in the Bible and in God!"

"You know that's not true! I'm trying to stop you bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States!"

From one of my favorite books, quite relevant I believe.

"Inherit the Wind"

I just have to sigh at people who insist that only their scientists are legitimate. Folks, unless you are one of these scientists you really have no cause to attack the research of either creation or evolutionist scientists, nor do you have any basis to rabidly support one scientific theory over the other. Everything you're arguing about is scientific hearsay, from both sides.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: matt426malm
"'That is not an opinion. It is aliteral fact, which the bishop arrived at through carful computation of the ages of the prophets as set down in the old testament. Infact, he determined that the lord began his creation on the 23rd of october in the year 4004 B.C. at- uh, at 9 am,' stated Bryan."

"'Was that Eastern Standard time? Or Rockey moiuntiamn time? Or was it day light savings time? Because the lord didn't make the sun until the forth day!'says Darrow."

"That is correct."

"The first day was it a twenty four hour day?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"There wasn't any sun. How do you know how long it was?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"What do you think?"

"I do not think about things like that... I do not think about!"

"Do you ever think about the things that you do think about? Isn't it possible that the first day was twenty five hours long? There was no way to measure it, no way to tell! Could it have been a twenty five hour day?"

"It is... possible..."

"Oh. You interpret the first day recorded in the book of genisus could be of indertermined length."

"I mean to state that thje day referred to is not necessarilly a twenty-four hour day."

"It could have been thirty hours! Or a month! Or a year! Or a hundred years! Or ten million years!"

"Davenport says,'I protest! This not only irrelevant immaterial, -- it is illegal! I demand to know the purpose of Mr. Drummond's questioning! What is he trying to do?'"

"I'll tellyou what he's trying to do! He wants to destroy everybody's belief in the Bible and in God!"

"You know that's not true! I'm trying to stop you bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States!"

From one of my favorite books, quite relevant I believe.

Inherit the Wind? Great book

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: matt426malm
"'That is not an opinion. It is aliteral fact, which the bishop arrived at through carful computation of the ages of the prophets as set down in the old testament. Infact, he determined that the lord began his creation on the 23rd of october in the year 4004 B.C. at- uh, at 9 am,' stated Bryan."

"'Was that Eastern Standard time? Or Rockey moiuntiamn time? Or was it day light savings time? Because the lord didn't make the sun until the forth day!'says Darrow."

"That is correct."

"The first day was it a twenty four hour day?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"There wasn't any sun. How do you know how long it was?"

"The Bible says it was a day."

"What do you think?"

"I do not think about things like that... I do not think about!"

"Do you ever think about the things that you do think about? Isn't it possible that the first day was twenty five hours long? There was no way to measure it, no way to tell! Could it have been a twenty five hour day?"

"It is... possible..."

"Oh. You interpret the first day recorded in the book of genisus could be of indertermined length."

"I mean to state that thje day referred to is not necessarilly a twenty-four hour day."

"It could have been thirty hours! Or a month! Or a year! Or a hundred years! Or ten million years!"

"Davenport says,'I protest! This not only irrelevant immaterial, -- it is illegal! I demand to know the purpose of Mr. Drummond's questioning! What is he trying to do?'"

"I'll tellyou what he's trying to do! He wants to destroy everybody's belief in the Bible and in God!"

"You know that's not true! I'm trying to stop you bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the education of the United States!"

From one of my favorite books, quite relevant I believe.

Inherit the Wind? Great book

cool down or your going to have a heart attack at the end of this thread and die

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur
Guess I should have written that as the first Humans.

I've already answered your question. The answer is yes. It is my belief that the first humans were intelligent (would they be humans if they weren't?)

And you think the first humans on earth had a conversational language and were capable of writing down their thoughts?

 

[Entity]

Flyer: you've made your side (regarding lineage) clear, and I can understand, though I don't necessarily agree. Regardless, you mentioned earlier that there were scientists who had explained artifacts such as the Grand Canyon, and explained them in such a way that their existence was not incongruous with the 6,000 year estimate. If you can point me to their essays, I'd be appreciative.

Rob

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: matt426malm


cool down or your going to have a heart attack at the end of this thread and die

LOL, sorry, I don't do anything half-assed. It's all or nothing with me!