How to best upgrade my entry level Haswell system...

[aaronking]

Currently have the cheapest Haswell 3.0 GHz processor paired with a MSI H81M-E33 V2 and 8 gigs of ram.

Using the PC as a music recording workstation and am beginning to experience some unwanted latency.

Thinking that upgrading to a quad core CPU is going to make a big difference. Is this true?

If so, not sure which route to go.

Looks like the cheapest Haswell compatible quad core runs $185ish.

AMD has a quad core for about $88, but I would have to add a mobo. Still, I could sell my current CPU/Mobo or use it for something else.

Additionally, I could look for an older used Intel Quad CPU/Mobo combo.

Finally, I could buy the new unlocked Pentium for $69 and theoretically overlock it, assuming my cheap Mobo would allow it. Still, that leaves me with 2 cores, not 4.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Burpo]

Spring for the i5 @ $185ish

 

[cbn]

That board will overclock the Pentium G3258:

http://www.jagatreview.com/2014/08/hands-on-review-overclock-pentium-g3258-dengan-msi-h81m-e33/5/

It will also take up to a i7-4790K.

 

[alcoholbob]

Maybe an SSD would help more? Unless you are seeing CPU utilization in the 90s.

 

[nurturedhate]

What software are you using?

 

[tential]

What software are you using?

Meh, might as well be safe and get a 4790k. Can never have too much processing power even if it's just for word right?

 

[erunion]

AMD has a quad core for about $88, but I would have to add a mobo. Still, I could sell my current CPU/Mobo or use it for something else.

Additionally, I could look for an older used Intel Quad CPU/Mobo combo.

Finally, I could buy the new unlocked Pentium for $69 and theoretically overlock it, assuming my cheap Mobo would allow it. Still, that leaves me with 2 cores, not 4.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

An $88 AMD processor isnt going to be faster than your i3. Your best bet t is to swap in another haswell chip.

But what type of latency are you experiencing?

 

[escrow4]

Meh, might as well be safe and get a 4790k. Can never have too much processing power even if it's just for word right?

Come now, you want at least a 5820K for 4K YouPorn. :whiste:

 

[tential]

Come now, you want at least a 5820K for 4K YouPorn. :whiste:

why stop there? Might as well get Dual Processor Xeon's then.

 

[aaronking]

I am using a DAW (digital audio workstation) called Reaper. The latency is experienced as the tracks stack up. It is only an issue during tracking, as I am monitoring the track I am recording.

I'm not sure what the CPU utilization looks like. I'll have to take a look.

Going from Dual to Quad is going to make more of a difference than going to SSD isn't it?

 

[BSim500]

Going from Dual to Quad is going to make more of a difference than going to SSD isn't it?

Not if you're being HDD bottlenecked by having to write multiple uncompressed audio files simultaneously to a slow mechanical HDD... You are better off running it as you would with Resource Monitor / Process Explorer in the background until you get latency, and then check your CPU / HDD usage. Is your HDD LED light on your case constantly on when you get latency?

PS: SSD vs HDD is like night & day even in general usage or simply booting up.

 

[R0H1T]

I am using a DAW (digital audio workstation) called Reaper. The latency is experienced as the tracks stack up. It is only an issue during tracking, as I am monitoring the track I am recording.

I'm not sure what the CPU utilization looks like. I'll have to take a look.

Going from Dual to Quad is going to make more of a difference than going to SSD isn't it?

No, both of'em have different use cases but generally for anything I/O intensive anything less than a SATA III SSD isn't recommended. You can use something like this ~ http://www.softpedia.com/get/PORTABLE-SOFTWARE/System/System-Info/Process-Hacker-Portable.shtml

You'll see the per core CPU utilization but more importantly it'll also show if the system is spending more time on I/O & even the particular files & directory being accessed constantly.

 

[aaronking]

Okay...this is what I am seeing in Process Hacker while playing a track/project in Reaper.

CPU - 33%
Memory - 44%
Processes - 47

I don't think I explained the issue clearly enough.

My firewire audio interface (Profire 2626) has a buffer setting, which affects latency when monitoring. If I set the buffer low enough to reduce latency, I begin to hear clicks/pops on playback.

There are ways to work around this, but I am interested in upgrading my system to better handle the processing.

Given the 33% CPU usage, should I look toward SSD? Or perhaps, a better Firewire card? (don't think this is the issue though)

 

[nurturedhate]

Years ago I had a similar issue using Cubase and eventually Pro Tools and it was indeed the firewire card. Granted this was probably 10 years ago and I attributed it more to terrible drivers at the time but swapping out the firewire card did the trick. It wasn't some expensive card either, was some $30 thing a friend had lying around.

As for your upgrade path I would definitely start with an SSD, at least 250gb, that would be enough for the OS, software, and a decent amount of audio files. After that I would upgrade the cpu. If this is your life and not a passing hobby I would save for the 4790k, otherwise find an i5 that fits your budget. Third another 8g of ram.

 

[Hazy24]

Looking at the performance meter in Reaper might give you a better idea (View -> Performance meter or ctrl + alt + P).
I think a rough general rule is more vst/vsti's -> get a better cpu. More audio tracks -> faster hdd/ssd. Big sample libraries -> more RAM.

If you want you can download Dawbench2014 (http://www.dawbench.com/)
I can run 122 instances of ReaXcomp in Dawbench-DSP-R4-RXC.RPP with a latency of 5ms.
My specs are g3258@4.2ghz and 16gb RAM, emu 1212m PCI. I have an SSD but i record to a normal HDD.

 

[Hazy24]

Btw, i also did this test before overclocking my cpu. At 3.2ghz i could run 97 instances. So you would probably get 25-30% more vst power with an overclocked g3258.

 

[Headfoot]

I am using a DAW (digital audio workstation) called Reaper. The latency is experienced as the tracks stack up. It is only an issue during tracking, as I am monitoring the track I am recording.

I'm not sure what the CPU utilization looks like. I'll have to take a look.

Going from Dual to Quad is going to make more of a difference than going to SSD isn't it?

I use Reaper quite extensively.

In songs with a lot of amp sims and VST(i)s I max out my 2500k @ 4.5 ghz. Certain songs I can't even listen to at real time without clicks and pops because it uses too much CPU. Go for the i5 if you need more CPU power down the line. A single VST can't be split across multiple threads, so if you have 1 heavy weight plug in you will need fast single thread. However, Reaper is quite good at multithreading what it can and you will see scaling across all of your threads.

It could be clicking and popping due to your audio interface as well as the others are saying. I couldn't set my latency too low on a Tascam US1800 via USB, but it ended up not making any difference as the default latency was low enough for my purposes.

Hazy's post is spot on otherwise. I also had to move all of my recording files from a slower hard drive to a faster one to eliminate some clicking and popping, particularly when the track would move from one sound file to the next where (where takes overlapped etc.) as it would stall and pop because the file hadn't loaded in fast enough.

Unfortunately clicking and popping is the symptom from a lot of different problems, though with that CPU usage it is probably fair to say it isn't that you're lacking CPU power at this time.

 

[aaronking]

Thanks for the replies. Nice to hear from other Reaper users. This is what I see in the Performance meter while hearing clicks/pops. Buffer is set to 512.

CPU 10.1%
Disk Total 2.2mb
Disk Read 2.2mb
Disk Write 0 mb
Ram Usage 1965mb
System Free 4461/8134mb
26 FX 16.61% CPU

If I up the buffer to 1024, I do not hear any clicks/pops.

Should note the project is set to 24/96.

Not sure exactly how to use that dawbench. Just load the RPP? Where do I see the latency in ms?

I really don't think it is the firewire card. I made sure to get one with the Texas Instruments chipset (though the cheapest card I could find).

 

[Hazy24]

Latency is what you set yourself as asio buffer latency in the config program of your soundcard. In my soundcard this done in ms, others (like yours i guess) do this in samples. I record in 24/44 so 224 samples is approx. 5ms (224/44.1 = 5.079).

Just load the project and enable ReaXcomps till you hear clicks & pops.

 

[Hazy24]

Converting your projects to 24/44 or 24/48 will give you a cheap performance boost. Try it, you might not hear any difference (I don't).

 

[aaronking]

Yeah, the Profire doesn't show ms, only samples. I could always drop down to 44.1 to help matters.

Thanks for the help.

 

[aaronking]

Looking at SSDs, is one of these better than the other?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148694
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820721108

I don't mind spending more if it will make a significant difference.

 

[coolpurplefan]

How about a motherboard with the Realtek ALC1150 audio?

 

[Cerb]

AMD has a quad core for about $88, but I would have to add a mobo.

I don't see any under $115.

Finally, I could buy the new unlocked Pentium for $69 and theoretically overlock it, assuming my cheap Mobo would allow it. Still, that leaves me with 2 cores, not 4.

It also leaves you with 3MB cache, where an i5 has at least 6MB. That could make as much a difference as the cores and threads.

Personally, given the usage, I would sell or re-use the mobo and CPU. Then, replace it with an H97 or Z97 board and CPU, checking out latency measurements on the boards, and choosing one that comes with with a low maximum in reviews.

 

[aaronking]

I don't see any under $115.

Here are a couple...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113348
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113281

Am I missing something?