How to control the people : Keep them stupid and uninformed

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Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
@Moonbeam, I am this close to dropping you into the ignore dumpster. What the fuck happened to you?! You went crazy a couple of months ago and have disappeared all the way up your own ass.

And this from someone who claims to have had massive, consecutive moments of satori? No, either you never did or you forgot what it taught you. You're arguing some kind of postmodern anti-epistemology here that saws off all your other arguments at the knees.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Funny when someone who sympathizes with the worse elements of humanity just because it fits his little pet theories accuses anyone else of arrogance.
Care to elaborate more on your pet theory about how shaming makes the world better. Where is the evidence it works. You would have disappeared long ago if shame had any effect. You are a junky for embarrassing yourself and pretending somebody else should feel what you won't.
 

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,252
2,265
136
Are you kidding. My God is better than his god any day. Mine is the best only God there is. My god is actually also multiple times better than your god, that Mr. God of Pathetic Arrogance.

Great? now I have that milk shake song stuck in my head.​
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I don't take anything you say seriously.

That's fine so long as we're clear you only do what you do out of arrogant self-interest, for example all that humblebragging over the sheeple by parroting trite zen.

Care to elaborate more on your pet theory about how shaming makes the world better. Where is the evidence it works. You would have disappeared long ago if shame had any effect. You are a junky for embarrassing yourself and pretending somebody else should feel what you won't.

Amusing given you know just as well as buckshot that denazification worked, in stark contrast to the solution the segregationists supported (ie nothing).

Also rather amusing how fungible your posts are with his on these matters where the two share a common interest.
 
Reactions: Azuma Hazuki

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
@Moonbeam, I am this close to dropping you into the ignore dumpster. What the fuck happened to you?! You went crazy a couple of months ago and have disappeared all the way up your own ass.

And this from someone who claims to have had massive, consecutive moments of satori? No, either you never did or you forgot what it taught you. You're arguing some kind of postmodern anti-epistemology here that saws off all your other arguments at the knees.
What happened is that I found out a long time ago who you are by looking at me and now you see it for the same reason. I have never dropped anybody nor will I, because the person you see is not who you really are.

I do want to thank you for mentioning the Tao because it caused me to read up on it and I discovered something I found rather satisfying to read, and that is that there is a transformative psychological experience that people have that not only was described by very similar word to the ones I use but which indicated confers a sense of certainty. There just isn't any going back to the way the world once looked before you found out you know and don't have any need to know. I am not the droid to whom you think you speak.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
It's a law and a truth but one that can only really be understood by those who have removed some critical level of their own conditioning

The truth is always there for those who have erased their egos.

Your arguments are illogical and you keep flip/flopping positions. On the one hand, you agree there are universal truths. On the other hand, you argue that only those who have "deconditioned" can understand and recognize the truth. By definition, universal truths are universal irregardless of any qualifier whether it is conditioning or whatever term you want to place on it. And now you are stating that only the deconditioned can realize the truth, functionally, an argument for moral absolutism. Essentially you are arguing for the "religion of the deconditioned" as the only true and just way, based on unstated criteria at this point. This only raises more questions, how do the "deconditioned" know they have truth correct? If 2+2 =/= 4 for everyone, what should it be for the "deconditioned?"
 
Reactions: Azuma Hazuki

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
Non-duality only goes so far. Even if it's the truth of reality at the lowest layers, the fact is it still has a certain amount of control here in the human world and it's both foolish and harmful to act otherwise. Just because you won't find good or evil down at the subatomic level doesn't mean they don't exist.

Emergent or supervenient is not the same thing as nonexistent. Please look those two concepts up.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
What happened is that I found out a long time ago who you are by looking at me and now you see it for the same reason. I have never dropped anybody nor will I, because the person you see is not who you really are.

I do want to thank you for mentioning the Tao because it caused me to read up on it and I discovered something I found rather satisfying to read, and that is that there is a transformative psychological experience that people have that not only was described by very similar word to the ones I use but which indicated confers a sense of certainty. There just isn't any going back to the way the world once looked before you found out you know and don't have any need to know. I am not the droid to whom you think you speak.

If Tao foretold much about reality they would teach it in science class. Of course it's in the self-interest of the religious like you & buckshot to categorize science as just another religion.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,849
13,784
146
See post 42 in this thread and compare it to:
https://www.icr.org/article/493/

Heck, he even starts changing his math later to use the 10^60 number from that website.

Previous threads he's used irreducible complexity and arguments of malaria drug resistance stolen from quacks like Michael Behe.

Good points.

I probably irritated him using the eye as an example of evolution since that seems to be a favorite one for "irreducible complexity".
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Your arguments are illogical and you keep flip/flopping positions. On the one hand, you agree there are universal truths. On the other hand, you argue that only those who have "deconditioned" can understand and recognize the truth. By definition, universal truths are universal irregardless of any qualifier whether it is conditioning or whatever term you want to place on it. And now you are stating that only the deconditioned can realize the truth, functionally, an argument for moral absolutism. Essentially you are arguing for the "religion of the deconditioned" as the only true and just way, based on unstated criteria at this point. This only raises more questions, how do the "deconditioned" know they have truth correct? If 2+2 =/= 4 for everyone, what should it be for the "deconditioned?"

I'm going to make the empirical prediction that arguing moonbeam like this is going to be about as effective as with buckshot, given it's the reason behind their partnership here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Great? now I have that milk shake song stuck in my head.​
Sorry............
Your arguments are illogical and you keep flip/flopping positions. On the one hand, you agree there are universal truths. On the other hand, you argue that only those who have "deconditioned" can understand and recognize the truth. By definition, universal truths are universal irregardless of any qualifier whether it is conditioning or whatever term you want to place on it. And now you are stating that only the deconditioned can realize the truth, functionally, an argument for moral absolutism. Essentially you are arguing for the "religion of the deconditioned" as the only true and just way, based on unstated criteria at this point. This only raises more questions, how do the "deconditioned" know they have truth correct? If 2+2 =/= 4 for everyone, what should it be for the "deconditioned?"
See what I mean? I explained it all and you didn't get a thing.

You arte thinking of truth as if it can be spoken or is some formal theory. It is a way of seeing, an experience of the oneness of everything, the ending of duality, being awareness, one's original self, the face you had before you learned to name things, it's you, your own being. You are the truth you are but you sleep and believe yourself to be your conditioning. You are ego and everywhere the ego looks it is the ego doing the looking so all the ego can see is itself. The truth is looking for you and will find you if you can give up all hope of finding it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
I'm going to make the empirical prediction that arguing moonbeam like this is going to be about as effective as with buckshot, given it's the reason behind their partnership here.
You need a payoff because for you the point of arguing is winning. Why do you suppose you keep circling like a vulture. What is this need to win? I'm a nobody. Defeating me will give you second to last prize. I guess in your condition it looks like something to strive for.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
You need a payoff because for you the point of arguing is winning. Why do you suppose you keep circling like a vulture. What is this need to win? I'm a nobody. Defeating me will give you second to last prize. I guess in your condition it looks like something to strive for.

I do like to be right, because being right about the world is what led to the better state of things in modern times.

Why do you do what you do?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
If Tao foretold much about reality they would teach it in science class. Of course it's in the self-interest of the religious like you & buckshot to categorize science as just another religion.
Well, you know how it is. Science may only be a religion, but it's my religion and naturally, that imbues it with tremendous significance. And, my faith in it is unshakable naturally enough. I just miss the part where if you disagree with what I believe it makes you a worthless piece of shit instead of somebody who just doesn't know what they are talking about. You in particular should know that not knowing what you are talking about isn't the worse place in the world to be. You'll live.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
I do like to be right, because being right about the world is what led to the better state of things in modern times.

Why do you do what you do?
I know, making the world a better place means making everybody with a different idea of what is better miserable. Too bad that's most of the world. "agent will make you better you sick fuckl" You are funny.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
See what I mean? I explained it all and you didn't get a thing.

You arte thinking of truth as if it can be spoken or is some formal theory. It is a way of seeing, an experience of the oneness of everything, the ending of duality, being awareness, one's original self, the face you had before you learned to name things, it's you, your own being. You are the truth you are but you sleep and believe yourself to be your conditioning. You are ego and everywhere the ego looks it is the ego doing the looking so all the ego can see is itself. The truth is looking for you and will find you if you can give up all hope of finding it.

Circular logic. Moonbeam knows the truth because the truth is defined by Moonbeam.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
I'm going to make the empirical prediction that arguing moonbeam like this is going to be about as effective as with buckshot, given it's the reason behind their partnership here.

Unfortunately, the logical fallacies used by both are converging to the same point.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Well, you know how it is. Science may only be a religion, but it's my religion and naturally, that imbues it with tremendous significance. And, my faith in it is unshakable naturally enough. I just miss the part where if you disagree with what I believe it makes you a worthless piece of shit instead of somebody who just doesn't know what they are talking about. You in particular should know that not knowing what you are talking about isn't the worse place in the world to be. You'll live.

As predicted you carry water for buckshot just because he also likes to pretend science is just another religion like their own. Seems obvious that by using empirical observation about human self-interest I'm able to deduce useful explanations/predictions about the world, in contrast to little pet theories which have no use but pampering the ego of their owners.

I know, making the world a better place means making everybody with a different idea of what is better miserable. Too bad that's most of the world. "agent will make you better you sick fuckl" You are funny.

It's just a matter of fact that human lives are better place today due to empirical understanding of the world. Such as why you & buckshot act the way they do and how to fix it by realigning self-interest a la education or denazification if need be. Again contrast with your medieval views of world which only resulted in medieval living back in the day before science. Even if we assume you're right for the sake of argument, seems god likes the science people a lot better than the other religious ones the way things are going.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
Good points.

I probably irritated him using the eye as an example of evolution since that seems to be a favorite one for "irreducible complexity".
Yeah, its the reason why I prefer to use data not found on creationist/Intelligent design websites. He can't formulate his own arguments because he has zero understanding of biology, hence the reason he never addresses the literature I post in response to him.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Circular logic. Moonbeam knows the truth because the truth is defined by Moonbeam.
You are the one going in circles looking for what I'm saying among things you already know. You're like an ant trying to fly by crawling around its nest. Truth isn't the equation but the experience of elegance realizing it generates. Truth produces an altered state of consciousness. It is the experience of the alteration in whichever certainty occurs. When the truth is the self is not. If the self is the truth is not. The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. These words are not the truth. There are no words when truth is. There is no truth when truth is thought. Cease and become if you want truth.

The pain of my ignorance of the truth was so great that I paid everything I had for it. I know it's value. Words like circular reasoning aren't going to put me off. What would you give for an experience of infinite love? Would you be willing to share that knowledge with a bunch of two bit monsters on the internet?

You would and I know it. Oh my beloved, wherever I look it appears to be thou. Is that you abj? I found you and I know who you are.
 

Roflmouth

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2015
1,059
61
46
As predicted you carry water for buckshot just because he also likes to pretend science is just another religion like their own. Seems obvious that by using empirical observation about human self-interest I'm able to deduce useful explanations/predictions about the world, in contrast to little pet theories which have no use but pampering the ego of their owners.



It's just a matter of fact that human lives are better place today due to empirical understanding of the world. Such as why you & buckshot act the way they do and how to fix it by realigning self-interest a la education or denazification if need be. Again contrast with your medieval views of world which only resulted in medieval living back in the day before science.

Can you translate this "sentence" into English?
 
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