How to control the people : Keep them stupid and uninformed

[vi edit]

Some threads are just like driving through a terrible patch of clay. Every rotation of the tire more and more shit sticks to it.

 

[Retro Rob]

Where ya been ya crazy fool?

Under a rock, actually...lol

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

A haiku

"Rob"

Oh look, here comes Rob.
What a dishonest douche bag
Hey there, Rob. Fuck you.

 

[Retro Rob]

Some threads are just like driving through a terrible patch of clay. Every rotation of the tire more and more shit sticks to it.

I just liked how you claimed that rejecting evolution is rejecting science when for about the 5 billion years preceding the earth's formation, science existed. The Universe existed. Stars existed and so on.

Science predates evolution.

 

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I just liked how you claimed that rejecting evolution is rejecting science when for about the 5 billion years preceding the earth's formation, science existed. The Universe existed. Stars existed and so on.

Science predates evolution.

Post 1038. It's not the beginning, but the end that is troubling.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

At this point, @Retro Rob, if you want to argue against evolution, you are obligated to say that whatever process actually happened looks exactly like evolution, and for some reason the force or person behind it doesn't want us to know his/her/its motives.

Creationism and ID are arguments for maltheism. Don't go there.

 

[Retro Rob]

Post 1038. It's not the beginning, but the end that is troubling.

I don't understand. You mean the part about Trump's intent?

 

[Jhhnn]

I just liked how you claimed that rejecting evolution is rejecting science when for about the 5 billion years preceding the earth's formation, science existed. The Universe existed. Stars existed and so on.

Science predates evolution.

Reality isn't science. Science merely seeks to explain reality. It's a product of the human mind.

It's possible that some current or long ago & far away alien civilization invented their own science but that's not germane to the conversation.

 

[Retro Rob]

Reality isn't science. Science merely seeks to explain reality. It's a product of the human mind.

It's possible that some current or long ago & far away alien civilization invented their own science but that's not germane to the conversation.

Fair point. How long were humans on this earth? How long after that did evolution become an accepted science? Science has been around since humans were intelligent enough to become curious about what was around them. This goes back I believe hundreds of thousands of years. So even then, science predated the study of evolution. Evolution on this time scale is in its infancy. You cannot link science with the study of evolution. Evolution is relatively new to science. You can have science without the study of evolution.

 

[vi edit]

So chewbacca was a wookie and I must acquit.

 

[Retro Rob]

Reality isn't science. Science merely seeks to explain reality. It's a product of the human mind.

It's possible that some current or long ago & far away alien civilization invented their own science but that's not germane to the conversation.

Well, on second thought, I guess this will come down to semantics and where one is coming from. There are branches of science that have absolutely nothing to do with biology, like computer science, archeology, Cosmology, Astrophysics, Astronomy, and so on. Just like science, there are many mainstream religions with their thousands of sects.

So I believe that saying rejecting evolution is the same as rejecting science, is exactly the same thing as saying rejecting the catholic church is rejecting religion.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

So Retro, are you going to explain why not-evolution-that-actually-happened looks like evolution? And why whatever cause of the not-evolution-that-actually-happened made it look this way?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I just liked how you claimed that rejecting evolution is rejecting science when for about the 5 billion years preceding the earth's formation, science existed. The Universe existed. Stars existed and so on.

Science predates evolution.

Rob has agreed that science is a product of human minds after stating that existed before humans existed.

Hey there, Rob. Fuck you.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You can have science without the study of evolution.

Not any more, you can't.

 

[Retro Rob]

So Retro, are you going to explain why not-evolution-that-actually-happened looks like evolution? And why whatever cause of the not-evolution-that-actually-happened made it look this way?

What?

I don't think you even understand what you're asking (or I don't understand what you're asking). What something "looks" like depends on who's doing the looking. So if i study a life-form over the course of say 100 years and it changes according to its environment, I can say: "wow, looks like intelligent programming by God to ensure the survival of life", or I can say "wow, natural selection in action!".

It depends on my presuppositions under your particular question.

 

[fskimospy]

What?

I don't think you even understand what you're asking (or I don't understand what you're asking). What something "looks" like depends on who's doing the looking. So if i study a life-form over the course of say 100 years and it changes according to its environment, I can say: "wow, looks like intelligent programming by God to ensure the survival of life", or I can say "wow, natural selection in action!".

It depends on my presuppositions under your particular question.

Well if you're discussing science then there can be no divine intervention as science explicitly focuses on natural phenomenon. Once you throw in god then nothing else matters and you might as well throw science out the window as literally anything can be explained as 'god did it'.

 

[Retro Rob]

Well if you're discussing science then there can be no divine intervention as science explicitly focuses on natural phenomenon. Once you throw in god then nothing else matters and you might as well throw science out the window as literally anything can be explained as 'god did it'.[/QUOTE]

Why? If God exists and created the world and humans, then God created science. Then in that reality, you can sub out the word "evolution" with "God" and the sentence "you can't have science without evolution" stays the same.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well, on second thought, I guess this will come down to semantics and where one is coming from. There are branches of science that have absolutely nothing to do with biology, like computer science, archeology, Cosmology, Astrophysics, Astronomy, and so on. Just like science, there are many mainstream religions with their thousands of sects.

So I believe that saying rejecting evolution is the same as rejecting science, is exactly the same thing as saying rejecting the catholic church is rejecting religion.

So we should look at science the same way we look at religion? That's bogus.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why? If God exists and created the world and humans, then God created science. Then in that reality, you can sub out the word "evolution" with "God" and the sentence "you can't have science without evolution" stays the same.

If so, he created evolution as well & gave humans the power to exploit it. Domestic plants & animals are the direct result of humans exploiting evolution.

 

[Retro Rob]

So we should look at science the same way we look at religion? That's bogus.

That's not what I said, nor implied. What I was saying is you can't throw all religions under the same umbrella like they're all the same, just like you can throw all sciences under the same umbrella like its all the same.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

What something "looks" like depends on who's doing the looking.

Only if some of those looking are dishonest, like creationists are.

So if i study a life-form over the course of say 100 years and it changes according to its environment, I can say: "wow, looks like intelligent programming by God to ensure the survival of life", or I can say "wow, natural selection in action!".

No, you can't, or you'd be a liar.

It depends on my presuppositions under your particular question.

Hey there, Rob. Fuck you.

 

[Retro Rob]

If so, he created evolution as well & gave humans the power to exploit it. Domestic plants & animals are the direct result of humans exploiting evolution.

Um, no. God and evolution are in reality mutually exclusive. Evolution theorizes from the bottom up, creation comes from the top down.

 

[fskimospy]

Why? If God exists and created the world and humans, then God created science. Then in that reality, you can sub out the word "evolution" with "God" and the sentence "you can't have science without evolution" stays the same.

Science by definition explicitly excludes supernatural entities such as god.

 

[Jhhnn]

Um, no. God and evolution are in reality mutually exclusive. Evolution theorizes from the bottom up, creation comes from the top down.

Only within the christian creationist mindset. Evolution obviously exists for us to be able to exploit it.

What humans didn't understand until Darwin identified the clues was the concept of deep time, that the Earth is more ancient than they ever imagined. Billions of years old & reconfigured very slowly & continuously by natural forces. It's how seashells end up on mountaintops & how life changes to fill every niche it can.

None of that applies to young earth theology, of course.

 

[Retro Rob]

Science by definition explicitly excludes supernatural entities such as god.

Science by its most loose definition means "knowledge". Every intelligent being (supernatural or not) possess knowledge and can acquire knowledge through various means.