How to enable Nvidia Phsyx on Ati cards in Batman:AA

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Tempered81

BFG, if that is the case, why would Anand say in the HD5870 review that benchmarking ati's CCC AA vs. in-game NV AA produces meaningless results, and that the in-game method is "much faster"?

Much faster than what? Did they actually test nVidia?s driver AA against the in-game version? Again, my comment is based off the fact that someone tested it on the forum claimed there?s no performance difference.

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Have you personally tested this?

No, this is based off ATi?s Ian McNaughton comment. Here?s a portion of it:

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009...uld-care/#comment-1630

Additionally, the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced.

So he?s saying the game?s AA implementation runs fine on ATi?s cards by simply changing the ID, thereby implying an artificial block by the developer.

He?s also saying it runs faster on ATi?s cards, but again my performance comments were about the nVidia test done on this forum.

Also he posts examples of ATi working with the developer, unlike your claims to the contrary. See the bolded comment were he states it?s not always possible:

Need for Speed: Shift
In another TWIMTBP title, we submitted a list of issues that we discovered during the games? development. These issues include inefficiencies in how the game engine worked with our hardware in addition to real bugs, etc.. We have sent this list to the developer for review. .

Unfortunately you will be unable to get a fair playing experience with our hardware until the developer releases a patch to address and fix our reported issues.

Resident Evil 5
AMD was unable to receive builds of this game early enough to get a chance to test and address any open issues. We will work with the developer to test and adjust any compatibility or performance issues that we encounter.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
ATi users knew when they bought their hardware that nVidia would pay developers to get exclusive support for nV hardware.

For AA? Seriously? I didn't know that. PhysX, maybe. But even then, didn't you claim that PhysX was an 'open' platform (when it was, sort of) and it is AMD's fault that it didn't support it? At least that was the argument from NVIDIA back then.

Of course we know how the story has changed. No longer we hear anything 'open' about PhysX. Today what I hear from some of you is that NV can do whatever it can, and that includes AA and I suppose it won't stop there. (am I right?)

Noone walked into this without knowing their choice would have pros and cons.

That is a blatant lie. When I purchased an 280 and 4890, I had nothing like this in my mind. Since your blanket statement began with 'No one', I don't feel the need to quote any other member in this forum. Heck NVIDIA is willing to go as far as to punish consumers who purchased NVIDIA products in the case of PhysX.

What is interesting to me is that you're advocating what NV isn't advocating. According to NVIDIA (I'm going by BFG's post), NVIDIA did not engage in back-handed tactics. I myself have maintained an opinion that without knowing the exact deal between NV and Eidos it is difficult to tell the real story. (since somebody is lying) And from BFG's last post, it seems like he's holding the developers responsible. Interestingly, while defending NVIDIA you are assuming the worst - that is, NVIDIA is lying and it's indeed actively engaging in anti-competitive behavior. I wonder why?

 

[BFG10K]

*** NOTICE ***


I tried to merge the "nVidia responds to Arkham Asylum AA issue" with this thread because we were arguing the same thing in both places.

But I think Fusetalk crapped out and lost most of the posts from the other thread. I?m asking the administrators to see if it can be fixed.

Sorry about that.

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: MrK6

What facts am I ignoring?

All of them. - llyoyd you can't triple stamp a double stamp

Show me where NVIDIA payed them - the NV logo is a splash screen in the game, is it not?

Show me a screen shot of the AA working just fine - N/A, I have a GTX280

Show me where AMD was prevented from working with the developer. -I'm sure somewhere along the way an Ati guy was at their office

Show me where AA is standard in the unreal engine especially using DX9 - wtf, who cares

AMD did nothing and expects to be rewarded for it. Send them some food stamps.[/q ]-honestly guy, you really think eidos are whoever it is, isn't getting a cut for disabling AA with Ati hardware.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: MrK6

What facts am I ignoring?

All of them. - llyoyd you can't triple stamp a double stamp

Show me where NVIDIA payed them - the NV logo is a splash screen in the game, is it not?

Show me a screen shot of the AA working just fine - N/A, I have a GTX280

Show me where AMD was prevented from working with the developer. -I'm sure somewhere along the way an Ati guy was at their office

Show me where AA is standard in the unreal engine especially using DX9 - wtf, who cares

AMD did nothing and expects to be rewarded for it. Send them some food stamps.[/q ]-honestly guy, you really think eidos are whoever it is, isn't getting a cut for disabling AA with Ati hardware.

AAAAAAnnnnnnddddddd.. Nothing got done. About as useful as my post here.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
*** NOTICE ***


I tried to merge the "nVidia responds to Arkham Asylum AA issue" with this thread because we were arguing the same thing in both places.

But I think Fusetalk crapped out and lost most of the posts from the other thread. I?m asking the administrators to see if it can be fixed.

Sorry about that.

Haha... I just spent the last 10 minutes looking for m post where I asked Wreckage if he expects DX10.1/DX11 features to be locked out on Nvidia cards since they must have been developed on AMD hardware. (I assume he must since obviously those games were developed with AMD parts).

I noticed every post was at 12:44 and figured it's just my hangover keeping me from being able to think, now I don't feel 'so' stupid. ;

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

No, this is based off ATi?s Ian McNaughton comment.

Ian McNaughton is senior manager of advanced marketing at AMD

:laugh:

Whatever. It's clear that ATI fans don't think AMD should have to work for anything. I will just leave it at that. We are just going in circles.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: BFG10K

No, this is based off ATi?s Ian McNaughton comment.

Ian McNaughton is senior manager of advanced marketing at AMD

:laugh:

Whatever. It's clear that ATI fans don't think AMD should have to work for anything. I will just leave it at that. We are just going in circles.

Are you assuming it is a lie based on the last nVidia marketing stunt?

 

[Compddd]

Nvidia makes me want to vomit with their business practices

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Have you personally tested this?

Have you personally fixed your edited post? Now on page 11, that falsely makes me seem to say something I didn't.

Since you seem to be unable to find it. here!!!

Get to work buddy.

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Schmide

Or working with open standards like DX11, DirectCompute, OpenCL, etc that benefit all instead of a few kickback receivers.

NVIDIA was the first to offer an OpenCL driver. In fact I don't even know if AMD offers one to the public yet. Nice try though.

EDITED IN Also DX11 is not an open standard. It is closed source that only runs on Microsoft operating systems.

Originally posted by: Schmide

On a Mac. :shocked: Nice try though.

DX11 works on a Mac?

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Compddd
Nvidia makes me want to vomit with their business practices

From a consumer standpoint, I agree with you. Just be open enough to see some of their decisions from a business standpoint.

 

[Tempered81]

small update on the AA:

"It is owned by Eidos. It is up to Eidos to decide the fate of a feature that AMD refused to contribute too and QA for their customers, not NVIDIA.”

AMD received an email dated Sept 29th at 5:22pm from Mr. Lee Singleton General Manager at Eidos Game Studios who stated that Eidos’ legal department is preventing Eidos from allowing ATI cards to run in-game antialiasing in Batman Arkham Asylum due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter.

NVIDIA has done the right thing in bowing to public pressure to renounce anti-competitive sponsorship practices and given Eidos a clear mandate to remove the vendor ID detect code that is unfairly preventing many of Eidos’ customers from using in-game AA, as per Mr. Weinand’s comments. I would encourage Mr. Singleton at Eidos to move quickly and decisively to remove NVIDIA’s vendor ID detection."

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20991


Looks like the vendor ID check will be getting removed via patch, and ATi cards will have the in-game MSAA option as well.

 

[T2k]

From a consumer standpoint, I agree with you. Just be open enough to see some of their decisions from a business standpoint.

You mean the alienation of their potential future customers?

 

[BFG10K]

That's simply fascinating. So nVidia's Lars Weinand says Eidos owns the code and is blocking ATi, but Eidos’ email from Lee Singleton states they legally count touch the code because it’s nVidia’s IP.

I don’t think Lars even knows what his company is doing.

Nice fine, Tempered81.

And yes, I hope a patch removes this nonsense so people actually benefit from the whole point of DirectX.

 

[T2k]

AMD received an email dated Sept 29th at 5:22pm from Mr. Lee Singleton General Manager at Eidos Game Studios who stated that Eidos’ legal department is preventing Eidos from allowing ATI cards to run in-game antialiasing in Batman Arkham Asylum due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter.

NVIDIA has done the right thing in bowing to public pressure to renounce anti-competitive sponsorship practices and given Eidos a clear mandate to remove the vendor ID detect code that is unfairly preventing many of Eidos’ customers from using in-game AA, as per Mr. Weinand’s comments. I would encourage Mr. Singleton at Eidos to move quickly and decisively to remove NVIDIA’s vendor ID detection."

OhhhhhohohohohOOOOOOOOOHHHH!

What's up, Keysplayr & WRECKAGE, NV FELL ON THEIR CORPORATE FACES, along with all of you, agents of 'there's no proof' non-argument???

Geez, NV is so pathetic it's not even funny anymore.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: akugami

Originally posted by: Compddd
Nvidia makes me want to vomit with their business practices

From a consumer standpoint, I agree with you. Just be open enough to see some of their decisions from a business standpoint.

You mean the alienation of their potential future customers?

Don't be dense. The fact is that I can see from a business side of things why they would want to get any advantage they can. If it means locking in features to their own hardware and more consumers buy nVidia cards because of it then it will have been a success.

If I was an nVidia shareholder I'd be ecstatic if it worked. nVidia is doing right by its fiduciary responsibility to make money for me. Just look at Apple which is what nVidia is trying to emulate if you want to know how locking in customers can mean huge gains.

Just because it's not good from a consumer standpoint doesn't mean that it's bad from a business standpoint. Everyone needs to be objective and separate the two.

 

[lopri]

Wow I couldn't see that coming. Kudos to NV for fixing the AA sistuation, and and kudos to fellow AT'ers who voiced her/his opinions.

 

[MegaWorks]

Tempered81 excellent find! Keysplayr tell your boss that you failed I'm not touching your cards anymore, it's matter of principles for me. Laugh all you want I don't care, Wreckage you got owned!! Have a nice day!

 

[Schmide]

What will stand the test of time for me is whether nVidia issues an apology. For the past month we've heard AMD let its customers down, only nVidia cares, it was Eidos's decision, etc. There is a point where the cover-up is worse than the crime and no amount of game sales can make up for the bad PR incurred.

I really hope nVidia and Eidos can grow from this moment.

 

[Red Irish]

small update on the AA:

"It is owned by Eidos. It is up to Eidos to decide the fate of a feature that AMD refused to contribute too and QA for their customers, not NVIDIA.”

AMD received an email dated Sept 29th at 5:22pm from Mr. Lee Singleton General Manager at Eidos Game Studios who stated that Eidos’ legal department is preventing Eidos from allowing ATI cards to run in-game antialiasing in Batman Arkham Asylum due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter.

NVIDIA has done the right thing in bowing to public pressure to renounce anti-competitive sponsorship practices and given Eidos a clear mandate to remove the vendor ID detect code that is unfairly preventing many of Eidos’ customers from using in-game AA, as per Mr. Weinand’s comments. I would encourage Mr. Singleton at Eidos to move quickly and decisively to remove NVIDIA’s vendor ID detection."

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20991


Looks like the vendor ID check will be getting removed via patch, and ATi cards will have the in-game MSAA option as well.

This was a bad idea from the outset. Credit to those with brain enough to react at Nvidia, but their image has been tarnished, as is the case with the posters in this thread who have tirelessly argued in favour of this measure.

 

[crazylegs]

Now that the facts have come out, Wreckage has been made to look like a complete and utter moron, who simply spews rhetoric and biased nVfanism's... I'm guessing you wont see him in this thread again. The cycle will continue, a new thread will begin, he'll spew some rubbish, the facts come out and his bias is exposed... *silence* finds new thread to drag down.

 

[Nox51]

This whole issue should never have occured in the first place. How disgraceful for those involved.

 

[Keysplayr]

"due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter."

So it WAS created by Nvidia. The code for AA in that game. They wrote it. Implemented it with Eidos. And through a Vendor ID wanted it to be Nvidia specific. And through much outrage by AMD and co. pressured to remove the Vendor specific ID so that their IP is forcefully surrendered. Because AMD and co. believed they had every right to that IP. Keep going guys, maybe you can get them to give up PhysX as well. After all, AMD surely deserves it, they worked so hard on it and must have spent a fortune.

 

[Red Irish]

"due to NVIDIA IP ownership issues over the antialiasing code, and that they are not permitted to remove the vendor ID filter."

So it WAS created by Nvidia. The code for AA in that game. They wrote it. Implemented it with Eidos. And through a Vendor ID wanted it to be Nvidia specific. And through much outrage by AMD and co. pressured to remove the Vendor specific ID so that their IP is forcefully surrendered. Because AMD and co. believed they had every right to that IP. Keep going guys, maybe you can get them to give up PhysX as well. After all, AMD surely deserves it, they worked so hard on it and must have spent a fortune.

No, it is not that AMD believe they have a right to an IP, but rather the fact that I the paying customer believe I have a right to have AA work on my card, even where Nvidia pays to have that option removed.

Pretty sad that you are still defending this practice.

 

[PingviN]

Well, at least now we won't have to see this escalate Imagine AMD putting "ownership" on DirectX11 in upcoming titles because only AMD supplied DirectX 11-compatible GPUs to game developers.