How to get more women in IT and technical fields.

[BoberFett]

I'm confident my daughter will end up in a STEM program of some sort. She's going into her junior year of HS and is a total nerd. Doesn't give a crap about "teenage girl" stuff, she'd rather be watching Marvel movies and shows, LoTR, Star Trek or playing WoW. She bounces around exactly what she would like to do, at one point she was talking about working towards an astrophysics degree, right now she's thinking about software development.

If I had any concerns about that environment I'd be worried for her, but I'm not. Maybe we're just higher quality humans here in the midwest than the assholes who live on the coasts. I've never seen any evidence of the kind of behavior that some claim is so commonplace. And I'm not just a nerd stuck in a cube, I'm a manager and have spent a lot of time out in the industry, going to conferences, working with vendors, being a vendor. I've worked with lots of women in various capacities and they're treated just like any other employee. I simply don't see the overt sexism that some claim is everywhere. Is there light sexism, such as guys fawning over techie girls just because they're girls? Sure. But the media is painting this picture that a woman who goes to a tech conference has a 100% chance being gang raped. I don't buy it.

 

[MrPickins]

Hardly. I wear lingerie all the time.

Pics or shens. ^_^

 

[MrPickins]

Maybe there's a nerd stereotype about IT that can keep teen-agers away, but there are no stereotypes about mechanical or civil engineers.

Have you never read a Dilbert comic? :hmm:

 

[Jeff7]

people pick their university course while in high school, before most of them have had any contact with the industry.
Women are already missing at that point.

So that's not it.

Maybe there's a nerd stereotype about IT that can keep teen-agers away, but there are no stereotypes about mechanical or civil engineers.

Also in my high school the physics and maths track already had engineering-like ratios. So it's not about the workplace. Most women simply prefer biology to physics.

"Maybe" there's a stereotype?
And maybe in Switzerland the perception of the engineering fields is better.

If you're doing engineering, you're going to have to be pretty proficient in math and physics. That would put you right around the same place on the social ladder, typically close to one of the rubber boots on the bottom ends of the legs.
Just being good at math by itself can be a death sentence.

...
Is there light sexism, such as guys fawning over techie girls just because they're girls? Sure. But the media is painting this picture that a woman who goes to a tech conference has a 100% chance being gang raped. I don't buy it.

That would entail physical proximity to a female. Given that audience, that by itself is highly unlikely.

 

[NAC4EV]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...orld-1.3194176

Anya Pogharian invents a $500 dialysis machine with at-home and third world potential...
We need more inventors like her.
Way to go girl...

 

[MarkXIX]

My 9 year old daughter has taken to programming. She's currently teaching herself using Khan Academy with me assisting her.

She already has a goal of working for 343 Industries or Nintendo, going so far as to say she wants to learn Japanese over other languages.

I haven't forced this upon her in any way, she's asked how video games and computer applications work, so I've described it to her and shown her some basic HTML and she just ran with it.

I'm worried about the misogynist assholes across the industry though more than anything. I work in IT, I've encountered plenty of them. What I've done to help her deal with that is build a keen sense of sarcasm and a quick wit.

 

[werepossum]

My 9 year old daughter has taken to programming. She's currently teaching herself using Khan Academy with me assisting her.

She already has a goal of working for 343 Industries or Nintendo, going so far as to say she wants to learn Japanese over other languages.

I haven't forced this upon her in any way, she's asked how video games and computer applications work, so I've described it to her and shown her some basic HTML and she just ran with it.

I'm worried about the misogynist assholes across the industry though more than anything. I work in IT, I've encountered plenty of them. What I've done to help her deal with that is build a keen sense of sarcasm and a quick wit.

Awesome. And if you're looking for jobs where she will be isolated from assholes you'd best see how she feels about lighthouse operator or fire tower watcher. If there are two people, likely one of them is an asshole.

 

[Mai72]

My sister is a programmer for a startup in Boston. She makes $95k a year and gets to work on code in her house.

She told me that being a woman and gay worked in her benefit. Especially since programming is dominated by men.

 

[Fayd]

Women are rational people who make choices based off of their situation. Right now, women bare the biggest responsibility in terms of child birth. Society has created a situation where a pregnant woman is very productive, but there becomes a point where many tasks become difficult or impossible. A woman can do just about any IT job. Once she gets pregnant, it becomes a different matter. If she is 7 months pregnant and a company needs a data center configured, she cannot be expected to stand 12+ hours building racks. Its hard enough for a normal person, but then you add in all the stresses of being pregnant and its unhealthy

stopped right there.

noone is rational.

 

[Staples]

My sister is a programmer for a startup in Boston. She makes $95k a year and gets to work on code in her house.

She told me that being a woman and gay worked in her benefit. Especially since programming is dominated by men.

I've noticed that a lot of women in these fields are in fact gay. No one ever points that out.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I've noticed that a lot of women in these fields are in fact gay. No one ever points that out.

"I'm not interested" wasn't getting the message across.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I've noticed that a lot of women in these fields are in fact gay. No one ever points that out.

Since very few women are gay; not like every woman that told you to DIAF when you asked her out was gay.

However I'm sure that those few that were so confused by the prospect that did say 'yes' quickly converted to the other team after their 'encounter' with you.

 

[PliotronX]

Just keep them away from Jared and they'll find their own destiny.

 

[SSSnail]

Are you sure you want that? Who will be making sammiches?

 

[Madwand1]

In general I would say that the essence of the issue is not to seek to provide a nurture with objectives, but to provide one in which nature flowers, whatever it may be.

While that's true, a parent's role is also to provide the means and guidance for the offspring to be self-sufficient and functional in the environment they happen to be in, and this in our day means being technically capable to a large extent.

Such fields are not for everyone, but parental guidance and influence is hugely underestimated by most people, including most parents, so IMO the OP is correct to point out the role parents have in addressing and influencing apparent imbalances.

The OP is wrong in directing his post to mothers only -- as it stands, men are more likely to already be in such fields, and thus be better equipped to guide and inform their daughters (and sons) with the knowledge they have. Women who already are in such fields don't need this advice.

 

[Spungo]

My 9 year old daughter has taken to programming. She's currently teaching herself using Khan Academy with me assisting her.

She already has a goal of working for 343 Industries or Nintendo, going so far as to say she wants to learn Japanese over other languages.

I haven't forced this upon her in any way, she's asked how video games and computer applications work, so I've described it to her and shown her some basic HTML and she just ran with it.

Good for her. Even if she doesn't take programming as a career, understanding programming languages and computers can make life a lot simpler. Dates are a good example. I see this problem all the time. Old people who didn't grow up with computers like naming things month-day-year, and it makes files impossible to sort properly. "June 1, 1983" is right next to "June 1, 2013" when sorted even though they're 30 years apart. "June 11, 1983" comes before "June 2, 1983" when sorted. It's a file system nightmare. I can bitch at them all day and they will never change. "Why doesn't the computer know 2 is before 11?" Because it's not, idiot. God damn it. How do these people dress themselves?

I'm worried about the misogynist assholes across the industry though more than anything. I work in IT, I've encountered plenty of them. What I've done to help her deal with that is build a keen sense of sarcasm and a quick wit.

You could always try to get her interested in martial arts. When you're a pro like Ronda Rousey, you almost hope a guy pulls some shit just do you have excuse to hip throw him on concrete :biggrin:
Also helps with bullying, building confidence and discipline, feeling secure in the workplace, feeling safer in general, etc. We really need more girls in jiu jitsu.

 

[MarkXIX]

Good for her. Even if she doesn't take programming as a career, understanding programming languages and computers can make life a lot simpler. Dates are a good example. I see this problem all the time. Old people who didn't grow up with computers like naming things month-day-year, and it makes files impossible to sort properly. "June 1, 1983" is right next to "June 1, 2013" when sorted even though they're 30 years apart. "June 11, 1983" comes before "June 2, 1983" when sorted. It's a file system nightmare. I can bitch at them all day and they will never change. "Why doesn't the computer know 2 is before 11?" Because it's not, idiot. God damn it. How do these people dress themselves?


You could always try to get her interested in martial arts. When you're a pro like Ronda Rousey, you almost hope a guy pulls some shit just do you have excuse to hip throw him on concrete :biggrin:
Also helps with bullying, building confidence and discipline, feeling secure in the workplace, feeling safer in general, etc. We really need more girls in jiu jitsu.

Funny you should mention dates and chronology because she was a born, walking, talking calendar. By something like age 3 she had already memorized everyone's birthdates and now at age 9 you can ask her anyone's birthday and she can tell you the date. She also looks at her annual school schedule on a regular basis and can pretty much remember key dates. She frequently reminds the rest of the family on upcoming events, etc.

As for the self-defense stuff, that's forthcoming. She will have to step up her game against her younger brother this winter after he gets involved in wrestling I bet.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Yea all the complaints and lawsuits are just made up. Male engineers have a stereotype but its all a big joke and never happens.


My wife and the others I have personally known have worked for large companies like QUALCOMM/IBM/INTEL/etc...

Yeah, but they probably worked for IT firms in sales.

 

[Staples]

Since very few women are gay; not like every woman that told you to DIAF when you asked her out was gay.

I never ask anyone. Some are outwardly gay and overly proud of it that they mention it all the time and some are just butch as hell and obviously gay.

The fact still is, there is big disproportion of gay women in IT as there are in society.

Kind of my answer to those who never want to admit that women and men have different brains.

Furthermore, many say that the working environment is terrible but I'd love to know whether 50% of mobile app developers (usually people who work alone at home) are women. This could tease out the whole work environment is terrible theory.

 

[Murloc]

Furthermore, many say that the working environment is terrible but I'd love to know whether 50% of mobile app developers (usually people who work alone at home) are women. This could tease out the whole work environment is terrible theory.

besides, there are plenty of mobile app developer or hacker or whatever success stories involving people who have never had formal work except normal summer work, but simply had an interest in programming.
Why are these disproportionately male as well?

All these point to the real issue behind the gap not being workplace treatment of women.

It's a cultural problem, which means the parents and the schools are the problem.

 

[Train]

It's a cultural problem, which means the parents and the schools are the problem.

Or you know, men and woman could be physiologically different.

There are scientific ways to test this theory... or you could observe different outcomes in different cultures and educational systems.

The absolute WORST thing you could do is assume anything other than 50/50 mix is some sort of systemic discrimination and then start forcing quotas to remedy it... without evidence.

 

[Smoblikat]

ATTN ALL WOMEN! When you have a baby girl, don't buy them Barbies, easy bake ovens, Disney Princess shit,etc..

Buy them Lego sets,chemistry sets,erector sets,arduinos,computers, take them to the library and science museums, do experiments with them, etc...

Thats how you get more women into IT and technical fields.


You always here people talking about how to fix this issue but the problem is in the parents, you have to lay the foundation right from the beginning and plant the seed.

What issue? Either someone wants to be in IT, or they dont...............

 

[Spungo]

The fact still is, there is big disproportion of gay women in IT as there are in society.

Wouldn't surprise me. There seem to be a lot of gay men in fashion.

Funny you should mention dates and chronology because she was a born, walking, talking calendar.

You can show her an interesting date trick in Excel. Enter the date "June 1, 1983" and hit enter. Right click that cell, click "Format Cells...", go to the "Numbers" tab, select the "Text" category and hit OK. The cell will change to "30468". Let her figure out what that number means. Date of epoch might be interesting as well.

 

[MarkXIX]

besides, there are plenty of mobile app developer or hacker or whatever success stories involving people who have never had formal work except normal summer work, but simply had an interest in programming.
Why are these disproportionately male as well?

All these point to the real issue behind the gap not being workplace treatment of women.

It's a cultural problem, which means the parents and the schools are the problem.

I tend to agree that it is more social than biological. My wife has tried and tried to get more diversity in the IT department at the university she works at and I did my level best to help. However, the almost entirely male dominated organization casually resisted and even then, the applicant pool of females was so sparse that it was almost non-existent.

My wife researched and went out of her way to attempt to find schools that had higher than usual female information technology program attendance, etc., and still came up empty.

I just think that society doesn't encourage much female participation in programming and IT from the start. Granted, the field itself is still relatively young and it was heavily skewed from the beginning as a male thing to do for some reason, but I think in the next decade or so it will change. It will take a concerted effort though by parents to foster the interest in the field.