How to get tighter handling like my friend's BMW 3-series?

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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
I didn't research the Konis. It looks like the fronts are only inserts. I don't have the drill for the bottom, or interest in hack sawing the stock OEM shocks out of the housing + filing required to remove any internal metallic aberrations to get the insert to fit. Wish they had linked the instructions.
also, don't buy breaker bars from AutoZone. The bar is only as thick as my middle finger, bends like a carbon fiber golf club.

You can probably get the appropriate drill bit for less than $10 on Amazon. If you don't have a file or a hacksaw, go buy them - they're cheap! When I installed the Konis in my car, I had to unscrew the old inserts that were held in with a large gland nut on the top. Cutting and drilling would've been easier.

I've had two Autozone breaker bars break (in the same day)...the guy told me he wasn't going to give me any more if I broke another one.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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You can probably get the appropriate drill bit for less than $10 on Amazon. If you don't have a file or a hacksaw, go buy them - they're cheap! When I installed the Konis in my car, I had to unscrew the old inserts that were held in with a large gland nut on the top. Cutting and drilling would've been easier.

I've had two Autozone breaker bars break (in the same day)...the guy told me he wasn't going to give me any more if I broke another one.

lol
if i were him I'd tell you they call it a breaker bar for a reason and you got what you paid for

need drill, and vice grips, and horse or table or something to bolt the vice grips to so I can drill into it
 
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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
lol
if i were him I'd tell you they call it a breaker bar for a reason and you got what you paid for

He told me I wasn't supposed to put a three foot pipe on it. Well, I wasn't.


soccerballtux said:
need drill, and vice grips, and horse or table or something to bolt the vice grips to so I can drill into it
You don't know any car guys who'd have something you could use?
 
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Dec 30, 2004
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yellow konis and eibach prokits helped but I still have significantly noticeable nose dive while turning. I honestly expected much more of an improvement. Should I get way stiffer springs? A much stiffer front sway bar? Leaning towards the latter. Wondering if these springs do anything more than lower my car - .- the konis were a PITA to install I hacked away with a hack saw for a good 2 hours yesterday to install the front inserts. Shoulda gone with coilovers woulda been much easier.
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Koni's set on full-soft? Dial up the damping in the front to help correct understeer.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Springs/shocks. The sway bar is doing it's job if the nose is squatting down while cornering hard. All the sway bar does is keep both wheels tucked into the body to prevent roll. If it's dropping hard to begin with, it can only be springs/shocks.

You don't want to change out springs to stiffer rates without changing out shocks to match (or if the springs rate exceeds the max rate on adjustable). They need to be a match set, otherwise you'll get severe underdamping (this is why ricers are always bouncing so much). Shock rate and spring rates must be designed for each other; shocks will have a recommended spring rate range.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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The nose dive while turning is kind of irritating I know. It's sort of par for the course with FWD and ~3000lbs. Have you tried JCH's suggestion?
 

Black2na

Senior member
Nov 25, 2010
629
1
0
i agree with arkaign. its a FWD car with all the weight on the front wheels when you slow down for a corner all the weight is gonna be transfered forward nothing you can do about it and if you take a look at the autoX pics from JCH,I and Jlee autoX school my car still as some roll its ok. but yes a front bar would help out alot with body roll logicly that would be my next step. remeber its not about perfect hanlding but getting a good balance of good ride and good handling. adding a front bar will help you limit your roll but not knock your fillings out.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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Koni's set on full-soft? Dial up the damping in the front to help correct understeer.

is this my problem?

I don't think I have understeer? Just side/nosedive/body roll in the front when turning.

With the lowering springs, free negative camber alignment ftw, without even taking it to the shop!

I can turn up the damping but this wouldn't help roll would it?
 
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Dec 30, 2004
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Springs/shocks. The sway bar is doing it's job if the nose is squatting down while cornering hard. All the sway bar does is keep both wheels tucked into the body to prevent roll. If it's dropping hard to begin with, it can only be springs/shocks.

You don't want to change out springs to stiffer rates without changing out shocks to match (or if the springs rate exceeds the max rate on adjustable). They need to be a match set, otherwise you'll get severe underdamping (this is why ricers are always bouncing so much). Shock rate and spring rates must be designed for each other; shocks will have a recommended spring rate range.

I don't think the front sway bar is doing enough though, it's just the sides of the nose that are diving, not both at once (front squatting), which wouldn't be that big of a deal cause then the chassis wouldn't roll...
not sure if the understeer this'll create will be desireable though...
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
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is this my problem?

I don't think I have understeer? Just side/nosedive/body roll in the front when turning.

With the lowering springs, free negative camber alignment ftw, without even taking it to the shop!

I can turn up the damping but this wouldn't help roll would it?

Expect some body movement, it's not the end of the world! Stiffer damping will slow down how fast your car's body moves, which may be the sort of feel your looking for. You got adjustable shocks, so adjust them! All it'll cost you is a little time.
 

FuzzyDunlop

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2008
3,260
12
81
Expect some body movement, it's not the end of the world! Stiffer damping will slow down how fast your car's body moves, which may be the sort of feel your looking for. You got adjustable shocks, so adjust them! All it'll cost you is a little time.

exactly.
play around with different settings between the front and back. I'd suggest find a corner (or parking lot) with NO TRAFFFIC at it and take the same corner at the same speed with different settings.
1. fronts all the way soft, rears all the way soft
2. fronts all the way hard, rears all the way hard
3. fronts all the way hard, rears all the way soft
4. fronts all the way soft, rears all the way hard.
5. fronts set medium, rears set to medium
6. etc.. you get the point by now I hope.

Take notes on how each setting feels as you go thru the corner. do this until you find a setting that 'feels' right to you. I found with my car that the fronts set almost all the way soft, and the rears set to medium gave me the best cornering ability. but then I have a Mid engine Rear wheel drive 2 seater - completely different animal.
 
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JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
66
91
Take notes on how each setting feels as you go thru the corner. do this until you find a setting that 'feels' right to you. I found with my car that the fronts set almost all the way soft, and the rears set to medium gave me the best cornering ability. but then I have a Mid engine Rear wheel drive 2 seater - completely different animal.

Fuzzy has to control more weight over his rear axle, so the rear springs are stiffer so the rear dampers must be stiffer to control them (what exdeath said). You've got a similar thing going on, but on your front front axle, although your rear springs are stiffer, there's less mass attached there, so you'll need less damping. I'd bet 3 clicks from soft in the front and 1 click from soft in the rear would work pretty well.
 

pr0craztinazn

Junior Member
Feb 29, 2004
19
0
61
Why did no one link you to the old Sport Compact Car Project tC? The articles are listed from newest to oldest.

http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0802_sccp_project_scion_tc_tech_progress/index.html
http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0610sccp_project_scion_tc/header.html
http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0606_sccp_2005_scion_tc/index.html
http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0511scc_project_scion_tc_part_1/index.html

Usually, I'm not one to recommend an immediate jump to coilovers, but none of the available tC springs are particularly stiff enough for your goal of BMW 3-series like handling. You're lucky SCC gave you a good road map to follow already.

However, seeing as you already have your Konis and Eibachs, I'd recommend setting the Konis to just short of fully stiff and dialing them softer until you are happy with how the car handles. Keep in mind that the dampers will wear out faster if they are set up like this. As already stated, the tires are really the most important part of the equation; I love my Star Specs.
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,484
514
146
I warned you that the pro kits weren't going to be a drastic increase in stiffness... you could see if someone on scion forums wants to trade your pro kits for a h&r sport or something stiffer like that, since you already have the Koni yellows those should handle the damping fine on a stiffer spring

Try to find a table of compiled spring rates for the various springs and then choose something that's at least 50% stiffer than stock, off the top of my head I think H&R sports would be a good pick- usually the H&R race is too stiff for street
 
Dec 30, 2004
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exactly.
play around with different settings between the front and back. I'd suggest find a corner (or parking lot) with NO TRAFFFIC at it and take the same corner at the same speed with different settings.

is that legal? I've got plenty of empty parking lots but cars drive up and down the access road all day long...
Only legal if you don't get caught?
 
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Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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I warned you that the pro kits weren't going to be a drastic increase in stiffness... you could see if someone on scion forums wants to trade your pro kits for a h&r sport or something stiffer like that, since you already have the Koni yellows those should handle the damping fine on a stiffer spring

Try to find a table of compiled spring rates for the various springs and then choose something that's at least 50% stiffer than stock, off the top of my head I think H&R sports would be a good pick- usually the H&R race is too stiff for street

yes it was too late when you warned me springs had already shipped
 
Dec 30, 2004
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I think I am warming up to them. As long as I don't try to slolem my car all over the place, I don't notice body roll.
 
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