How to remove all human perception of the passing of time

[Shalmanese]

This is a result of the what is sleep thread and some late night insomnia but I was trying to create an experiment to see how the gradual change in the percieved time by a human would influence them. ie. If we shortened a "day" into 18 hours (from now on, I will use quotation marks to refer to percieved time and non-quotation marks to refer to objective time)

Of course, the experiment I am proposing is so highly impractical that it would have Ethics boards in outrage and Pavlov cream his pants but its fun to dream .

Basically, what I am proposing, is to have 1 or more people live in a living space far enough under the gorund so that no natural sunlight could penetrate and then control "day" and "night" through the use of artificial lighting. The period of lighting would then be gradually lengthened or shortened to see what effects it would have on the individual(s)

Now, looking into the specifics of the experiment, I want to design a complete living space where all objective measures of time are removed

The first step would to be obviously get rid of all clocks/watches etc.

Lighting would be in the form of 1 set of automatic lights which would simulate the "day" and "night" by gradually lighting up and dimming and one set of normal lights.

Food would not be in the form of meals as there would be a noticable decrease in hunger as each "day" grew shorter but more of a food-on-demand with not differentiation b/w breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I dont think it is possible to include either TV or Radio as each of those are based on regular chunks of objective time (30 minute shows etc)

Reading I think would be an excellent way of passing the time as well as excercise so a large library and full complement of gym equipment would be included.

Any other ideas guys?

 

[rimshaker]

People get used to time changes fairly quickly, it's no surprise. Look what happens when you fly over to another time zone... your sleeping and timing habits gradually adjust.

 

[Evadman]

Actually, someone ( a professor ) already did this experement. It is a great idea. I saw it on the Learning channel believe it or not. It was about a year ago, so I do not remember the name of the program

 

[crypticlogin]

There have been studies that show the average amount of sleep people got before the invention of the lightbulb was about 2 hours more than those after. The researchers reasoned (if it wasn't already clear) that the lightbulb extended what was perceived as natural light and more "daytime" activity occured in one 24-hour period and sleep was the victim of it. So yeah, light as a stimulus and external clock can easily affect the internal clock.

 

[nirgis]

the beating of the heart is a natural measurement of time, irremovable in all pratical outcomes

 

[RedFox1]

<< the beating of the heart is a natural measurement of time, irremovable in all pratical outcomes >>



I don't think that's true ; your heartrate can vary quite a bit. Haven't you seen that quiz show with the tennis player and the torture chair?

-Russ

 

[Spotch]

You would have to eliminate darkness completely... Also remove and dust in the air (antiseptic) as this would accumulate on everything over time. (Yes I am married ) No plants of course and no seasons.

 

[Novgrod]

Here's what my neuroscience book has to say on the topic:

"recent studies have found that body temperature and other physiological measures change quite reliably over a 24-hour cycle, even if people are entrained on a 20-hour or a 28-hour "day" with artificial lighting. . . . "

Golden hamsters sleep and wake and run on wheels and eat and drink on a 24.1 hour cycle when they're in total darkness. This can be changed in some mutations.

So, to answer your question, the body keeps time. If you want more info, I'll provide it, but it gets slightly more technical.

 

[zephyrprime]

<< Actually, someone ( a professor ) already did this experement. It is a great idea. I saw it on the Learning channel believe it or not. It was about a year ago, so I do not remember the name of the program >>


I've heard about people doing this experiment also. I believe that it's been done at least several times with various parameters.

 

[Karshikinpa]

i read about a study once in which a lady was placed in a room/building where she couldn't tell the difference between day or night, and had no peception of time. she agreed to stay in this place for 3 months while scientists could observe what she did. there were plenty of things for her to do, read, garden, etc, but no contact to the outside world. at the end of the 3 months her "day" was almost 33 hours. she stayed awake longer, and then would sleep longer. she was surprised when they brought her out early since she was keeping track of the "days" herself and didn't even realize that her perception of time had changed

i wonder if we were to do this long enough, if we could essentially go into hibernation, where we would be awake for a month then sleep for 2 weeks, or something like that... would make an interesting change on how we operate in the world if this was the case. "I'm sorry Bob, I won't be able to make it in for a couple of weeks, gotta go take a nap."

 

[brinstar117]

hehe, how do you think casinos are designed? their main goal is to do the same so you don't realize how much you're staying in the gambling areas...

No windows, no clocks, just 24/7 artificial lighting. They aren't trying to change your perception of a day and night, but rather make your body feel as if it's daytime all the time

 

[RedBeard0531]

I saw a differant TV show, and it refered to a German expeirment(Way past the Nazi ones) where they put 100 ppl in an underground burnker that was setup like a house for each of them. They had no contact with the outside world, and only arlificial light, that they controlled. Food was on demand, they only got it after they asked. I beleivew they had random callings, and asked hte pppl to approximate the time. What they found was that while most ppl stuck to a 24hr "day", others had a 36hr "day"(as much as 25% IIRC).

 

[Shalmanese]

While lengthening the day certainly seems possible, I wonder what would happen if you tried to shorten the day. I think that this would be far harder as people start to notice when they cant fit as much into a day.

I was wondering just how far you could do it before a person began to notice.

 

[C2]

I believe that the question is "would your body and/or mind adapt to the gradual change in actual time unknowingly?" instead of "could you find a way to know the actual passage of time?"

I believe time is relevant. If we are discussing the decay of an isotope as percieved by a measuring instrument that has a human created system for measurement (time) then time would seem to be not relevant, but a constant. Awareness of time=time for some, while affects of time=time for others.

Time is only the space between events.

If you have ever noticed your pet's sleeping habits, you would have noticed that they have no concept of time. They sleep and eat when it's available for them. When confined, they will sleep unless distracted. When food is available, they will eat unless distracted. They do not operate on a time related schedule. They are up most of the night and up most of the day, yet they seem to sleep alot as well.

Wild animals react to light levels and temperature instead of time. I don't think deer or fish know it's 6am when they decide to feed.

Ok I'm rambling now...

 

[Cat]

It's interesting to note that before electric / gas / artificial lighting, people had 2 "sleeps." They would get up after about 4 hours, do some stuff, and then sleep another 4. This occured in western countries, at the very least.

 

[Double Trouble]

First off, there is no 'objective measure of time', as everything is relative.

That aside, I think hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have made the human (and most animals / insects I suppose) a certain way based on their environment. There's many reasons for creaturs to have their behavrior determined by a certain cycle based on day and night. Given thousands of years, I think you could make huge physiological and phsycological changes in the operation of the body..... but given a short time, I'd say the changes would be fairly small. For one thing, we know that you can have people "get used" to doing certain things (more sleep, less sleep etc), but that doesn't mean there is a real physiological change that accompanies the behavior.

Interesting idea though