How true is this? intel sabotaging amd around 2005.

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piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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Prior to this, there's also intel forcing motherboard makers to box AMD motherboards in a plain white box.


I'll post wherever I like, especially when it sets fanboys on edge.

We don't need to go over for the 1,000th time something that happened a decade ago.

We end up getting false crap like this posted.


How about I start a thread about the Opteron recall just because somebody hasn't heard of it? I'm betting you wouldn't too pleased about that.

So clearly a bait post then.

Also:

Please read the rules, calling someone a fanboy is not allowed in the technical forums.

What, do the rules also state that it's ok to call more than one person a fanboy then?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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We can because plenty of people fleeing AMD around that time frame said the company wasn't spending enough on R&D and wasting money on hookers and blow. The company didn't have a viable new architecture after Athlon. If Intel had literally done nothing shady from 2000-2006 AMD would've ended up in the same position as they are today, just a few years later than they did. AMD's mismanagement is a far bigger story than anything Intel did.

I completely disagree. If we take into account billions of dollars that AMD could have earned during 2000-2006, it would have meant that AMD's purchase of ATI wouldn't have required billions of leveraged and costly debt that AMD still carries to this date. The consequence of AMD not getting all that income and cash flow during Intel's anti-competitive business years is the massive amount of debt load that AMD incurred during the ATI acquisition + all the interest AMD paid on the portion of debt it took out to buy ATI that could have been paid for with the 2000-2006 earnings. So the total damages to AMD aren't simply measured in terms of its CPU architecture but billions of dollars in lost interest debt charges and subsequent reduction in R&D/engineering resources and marketing resources that were required to service all that debt.

To agree with your viewpoint would be akin to agreeing that if AMD magically got $3-5B of cash flow today, it wouldn't make any difference for the firm's going concern or its long-term strategy. For starters we know that if AMD had almost no debt, there is no way that NV would have gotten away with its Pay to Win GW business strategy because AMD would have had enough resources to balance out such business practices with many AMD GE titles. Furthermore, AMD would have had a lot more $ to hire the top engineers and many more engineers, as well as attract much more talent if talented executives were in a position to charter a solid strategy instead of wasting their time on loan refinancing, restructuring, lease buy-backs and spin-offs that are now required to deal with hundreds of millions of interest rate charges on massive debts AMD incurred during the ATI acquisition (which would have been paid for with earnings of AMD from 2000-2006 years that Intel basically bribed away from AMD).

It the executive/senior management team is spending a large portion of their time worrying about the financial aspects of the firm, not the engineering or strategic aspects, it's much harder to execute and formulate a cohesive and strong competitive strategy. You haven't even taken into account that AMD could have developed stronger or new relationships with OEMs/buyers but since Intel blocked such possibility or prevented it from expanding, AMD never developed the strong supply chain and loyal customers for future business operations. Therefore, the opportunity loss of the $ AMD could have earned has far reaching consequences than simply Bulldozer or Phenom.

Imagine if Qualcomm was 50-75X the size of its closest competitor and bribed its way into all key smartphone design wins for 6+ years. How would that look for the competitive landscape of ARM eco-system today?

NV is getting $66M per quarter in pure cash settlement for some IP licensing (!) that isn't even a tangible revenue /customer cash flow stream but a blatant patent licensing fee based on the US's broken patent system. OTOH, AMD lost billions of dollars of highly likely potential cash flow streams from key OEMs by being purposely blocked out and manipulated out of the CPU market by a much larger player. That's not capitalism -- that's pure mafia state Russian-style business practices. In a properly monitored and law-abiding capitalist society, Intel's executives should go jail for such business practices. In other words if some measly NV IP licensing award to NV is $66M cash / quarter, the compensation to AMD for everything that Intel has done should have been in the billions of dollars. Granted, Intel treated nV poorly too so NV does deserve some compensation but my point is NV to this date is getting $264M per year from Intel and this is basically going to be a re-curing fee for years to be re-negotiated in the future. What's AMD getting from Intel? $0.
 
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TechGod123

Member
Oct 30, 2015
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I'll post wherever I like, especially when it sets fanboys on edge.

We don't need to go over for the 1,000th time something that happened a decade ago.

We end up getting false crap like this posted.


How about I start a thread about the Opteron recall just because somebody hasn't heard of it? I'm betting you wouldn't too pleased about that.

So calling people fanboys is against the rules but you do anyway? Hypocrisy at its finest!
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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So calling people fanboys is against the rules but you do anyway? Hypocrisy at its finest!

See, this subject clearly bothers you to the point of you thinking that posting something AMD negative vindicates your cruzade.

Something must have happened to him during some era of ATI's/AMD's products. He was never like that in the beginning. Maybe he needed to buy a $20,000 diesel generator to power his $20,000 HD4870 bitcoin mining array but then when he was at work, the generator's electrical circuit exploded and set his whole house on fire. Since that point, he has started hating all things made by AMD, regardless of any metrics or any relative standing of AMD's products. The hate should only intensify over time after seeing your Kepler 660 card getting beaten by HD7870 Pitcairn competitor that cost less. Pay more, get less, must not be a good feeling. I guess hating the competitor's cheaper and yet superior products you didn't buy could be comforting? hehe. Haters gonna hate. :sneaky:
 
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boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
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I was just looking for some confirmation and I got it. I never realize it was such a sensitive topic that it could send certain posters into crazy mode. it was like instant berserk the moment they read the topic. kinda disturbing yet comical.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
3,974
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Or, back on Earth, because intel was found guilty of breaking anticompetitive laws in Korea, Japan and the EU.

What's your opinion on the x86 cross-licensing agreement? Do you think AMD would have gotten away and spun off its fabs despite the agreement saying otherwise, or do you think justice would finally be served in AMD's case and the company would lose the license?

IMO unless AMD got the same benevolent judges that allowed the company to clone Intel chips it would be the end of the line for AMD.
 

zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
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I recall seeing a PDF that was from Intel to resellers where they claimed that "AMD is lying to your customers" since the Performance Rating that AMD used didn't represented "real Frequency" compared to Pentiums 4. That was true - but they were omitting the entire point about the low performance per clock of Pentiums 4, and actually blaming AMD for having to resort to using Performance Ratings to at least be more competitive in the eyes of uninformed users. Can't figure out how to dig that PDF out.
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
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What's your opinion on the x86 cross-licensing agreement? Do you think AMD would have gotten away and spun off its fabs despite the agreement saying otherwise, or do you think justice would finally be served in AMD's case and the company would lose the license?

IMO unless AMD got the same benevolent judges that allowed the company to clone Intel chips it would be the end of the line for AMD.

So you want to change the subject. Ok, I guess there's no denying that intel broke and was convicted of numerous anticompetitive laws around the world, so that spin is going nowhere for you I suppose.

You mean if IBM hadn't chosen AMD as a second source? I don't think intel had any choice. Just like it doesn't have any choice but to license AMD64. intel would be just as dead without AMD 64 as AMD would be without x86. Except AMD would continue to produce world class graphics......intel....not so much. But again, this has nothing to do with intel breaking anticompetitive laws around the world when it has products that can't compete.
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
473
136
I recall seeing a PDF that was from Intel to resellers where they claimed that "AMD is lying to your customers" since the Performance Rating that AMD used didn't represented "real Frequency" compared to Pentiums 4. That was true - but they were omitting the entire point about the low performance per clock of Pentiums 4, and actually blaming AMD for having to resort to using Performance Ratings to at least be more competitive in the eyes of uninformed users. Can't figure out how to dig that PDF out.

Would be nice to see that. And not surprising at all.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,787
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Old news, flame bait, etc... Locking this.
 
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