How unethical is it to...

[GTaudiophile]

I would shy away from the "allowance idea". This means she's the slave, coming to you for her handout. This would spell doom for your marriage.

My suggestion:

I assume you are the only bread winner in the family and that she is the homemaker.

1) PAY OFF THE CREDIT CARDS AND THEN CUT THEM UP! Keep one Mastercard/Visa for urgent purposes. (Pay off any remaining debts while you're at it...aside from MAYBE the mortgage and car payments.)
2) Have your salary auto-credited to Savings Account 1. (Taxes will already be take out by this point, but you know what your gross income is.)
3) Savings Account 1 is off-limits to all but your debtors. If your bank sends you a debit card for this account, shred it, and throw it away. Do the same with any checks they send you for that account.
4) Take 15% of your gross income, call it X, and transfer X to Savings Account 2 every month, without fail, no questions asked. Savings account 2 is off-limits to ALL. If your bank sends you a debit card for this account, shred it, and throw it away. Do the same with any checks they send you for that account.
5) Set up an auto-debit system for Savings Account 1 with... your bank (for your mortgage, car payment, etc.), with your insurance company (auto, health, home, etc.), with your telecom companies (internet, TV, cell phone, etc.), and with any other companies from which you have fixed monthly expenses. Savings Account 1 will be the one you monitor on a daily or weekly basis. You don't want it to run dry or else your debtors will be drawing on an empty account, and that's no good.

What if amount taken by debtors is > what is in the account? 1) Do NOT go into debt by paying minimums. Draw from Savings Account 2 in this situation to pay everything off fully, but 2) You now realize your are spending too much! You need to lower your fixed montly expenses by ditching your cell phone, home internet connection, cable TV, etc. Remember, these are luxuries, not needs!

6) What ever is left over in this account after the debtors have taken their share at the end of the month, transfer it to your Checking Account, which is jointly owned by you and your wife. This is the "mad money" for both of you. Have two debit cards/checkbooks for this account. Once this account goes dry, it goes dry. No skirts, no games, no eating out, etc.

Family finances are serious business, no laughing matter. You know that. The name of the game is personal and financial discipline. You both must understand the concept of delayed gratification. Want that new skirt this month but there's not enough money in your Checking Account, then tough luck. She's got to wait until there is enough in that account. The same goes for you next time you want that new motherboard or videocard.

Edit: When Savings Account 2 gets to $10,000 (for example), then take $4,000 out and invest it. Buy stocks, bonds, metals, Roth IRA accounts, IRA accounts, property, etc. Anything that has the potential to appreciate in value. Try to keep a minimum of $6,000 in Savings Account 2. Repeat the investment process every time the account reaches that level.

Edit: The hope is, if you get an early enough start, the investments you buy and the money you save will have a combined worth of a MINIMUM of $1 million dollars by the time you reach your retirement age, be it 55, 65, or 70.

Edit: When little John or little Jane pop out, the belts get tighter and the savings rate gets higher. Consider 20% at least. Remember ONE college education at Harvard in the year 2035 will be about $500,000. Kids are to be planned for financially as well as in any other regard. Can't afford them now? Then you can't!

 

[wesman6]

Thanks for all the replies. Thanks GTaudiophile for that comprehensive reply. I will look into that. Seems well thought out and I appreciate your time typing that out.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: wesman6
Thanks for all the replies. Thanks GTaudiophile for that comprehensive reply. I will look into that. Seems well thought out and I appreciate your time typing that out.

I keep editing it

 

[Jeff7181]

I wouldn't mention the raise... but tell her she needs to watch her spending because you're living paycheck to paycheck... never getting ahead.

 

[jamesbond007]

GTaudiophile, :beer: for you, sir! Damn nice replies and detailed explanations of not only WHAT to do, but HOW to do it. If there were more people like, you, the world would be better off, credit companies would cease to exist, and people would probably live stress-free.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: jamesbond007
GTaudiophile, :beer: for you, sir! Damn nice replies and detailed explanations of not only WHAT to do, but HOW to do it. If there were more people like, you, the world would be better off, credit companies would cease to exist, and people would probably live stress-free.

I keep editing it

 

[DaWhim]

don't spend above your mean

 

[Tiamat]

id say: Talk to the wife and tell her that money is tight and thrift buys need to be limited for a certain amount of time. Tell her you will also be mindful of your own personal spending too. Both of you should get together once a week or something and write down exactly what your money was spent on, and cross-check it with your bank statements etc.

Sometimes writing down each and every expenditure helps you to determine what you are wasting money on, and what is truly important.

I wouldnt tell her about the raise now. Probably tell her when you get your next raise.

 

[RandomFool]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I would shy away from the "allowance idea". This means she's the slave, coming to you for her handout. This would spell doom for your marriage.

My suggestion:

Damn that's a well thought out reply I might do that for myself. Just to add my 2 cents, talk to her and explain things at the very least, even if you don't mention the raise it might help so she knows she can't buy buy buy all the time. Secrets will kill a relationship because they always come out eventually.

 

[spidey07]

Although there are many fine suggestions the most obvious one is for her to keep buying usless crap.

As far as unethical, I'd say yes. You don't trust her (and with good reason, you shouldn't until she fixes her problem.) Its a dangerous path.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Why would she react negatively? Because she doesn't have more money to buy things she wants? Tell her that your money isn't her private piggy bank and that she needs to calm down with the buying worthless sh!t.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Okay, I think I am done editing my big post above.

I took out the comments about my father. Point is, the strategy I outlined is one I personally use and adopted from him. It worked for him and is working for me. But after it worked for him, my mom took 50% of it through divorce. Who said life was fair?

 

[gigapet]

is this shens?

 

[Ranger X]

Not unethical at all. Afterall, it IS your hard earned money. If she has a spending problem, you have the right to withhold financial information from her.

Oh and OP, you're a pvssy for not confronting her about her spending habits.

 

[BooGiMaN]

posts like this make me appreciate my wife a lot more...

 

[xSauronx]

my ex had the same problem: we were married 4 years ago and before she left me we were making significantly more than when we were married but we hadnt raised our quality of life, had any savings to speak of, or even gotten something like health or dental insurance (something certainly nice to have when youre married and have 2 kids)

every time wed get a raise, shed blow it. when we got married we had a mortgage and were living week to week on our paycheck: no car payments (both cars paid for) and no credit card debt (we got a card after a few months for "emergencies" sure, that worked, thanks honey)

when she left me 4 months ago we owed $1200 on a credit card and had gotten a $5000 personal loan to cover other debt and help us buy a newer car since we hadnt saved any to buy one after i got rid of a craptastic grand am id been driving.

she blew loads on food, movies (and rentals) and christ knows what else. she just cant stop herself from spending. we make very strict and specific plans at least 3 times to pay off our debt and begin to save, and she ALWAYS broke it within a month.

she even took a second job wanting to make extra money just to pay down our debt. whatd she do?

sold knives for cutco. yeah, theyre sharp, and id never own one. now whe she told me she wanted to do this, i didnt support her: we live in a small rural area, selling door to door or whatever is silly and a waste of time. nevermind that the commission was small and she had countless hours in meeting and such that, of course, she didnt get paid for. in addition, they "encouraged" her to spend $200 to *buy* the showcase set they had given her: this wasnt required.

so within 2 weeks, shed spent $200, sold $350 (commission on that was well under what she had paid out) and spent hours in meetings. she did this for about 6 weeks and may have made a grand total of 50 bucks after we had to pay for the set she bought.

i made her quit.

so she moves out, lives alone and....still has no money. she has netflix, but just carried back 4 rentals (overdue) from hollywood video. she eats out ALL the time. she drinks regularly, not usually heavily, but instead of saving money and having some water she spend $15 a week on booze and soda. not a grand amount, but when youre dead broke? common.

she also bought a new car. she claims its my fault, i wont bother getting into that.



in short:

cut her hands off so she cant purchase things, then tell her you got a raise.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Let me also note that should the both of you decide to adopt something like what I outlined, then the process needs to be totally transparent to her. It should not be a secret. She needs to realize it's done for the greater good, and that what ever is left over in Checking Account, is mad money for you both! Both of you are limited by what is there or not there.

 

[meltdown75]

don't tell her... YET

save a bit of coin on the side in addition to paying the bills... when you have enough saved, buy her something nice and simultaneously tell her about the raise... maybe it'll go over smoother than you think.

conversely, you could just not tell her and not buy her anything because she's got enough junk as it is from the sounds of it

 

madness level of getting a raise and not telling her because you don't trust her spending habits > madness level of talking to her about her spending habits

 

[KarenMarie]

to be honest... i would tell her. and i would tell her that i was gonna continue to keep it out of her reach until she proves she can be trusted to act responsibly with money.

then i would tune out the b!tching that would likely ensue.

 

[Ausm]

I was in the same boat once untill I got divorced

Ausm

 

[badmouse]

Well, divorce is expensive, so anything that leads AWAY from divorce and TOWARDS a good loving trusting relationship is a good investment.

GtAudio's great response is an excellent idea. However, first you have to get past this raise and spending mistrust thing. Your best way out of that would be:

Step 1 - tell her that you got a raise a while ago and that you didn't tell her because you wanted it to be a surprise
Step 2 - Hand her, in cash, the amount of extra money that you've received from the raise. Kisses, etc (and trust) should ensue, you can handle that yourself. (point out how much money you were able to save in the short amount of time since you got the raise, and how little bits can add up really quickly)
Step 3 - Also hand her an application for a long-term savings account with GRAPHIC information about how much money she'll have in 20, 30 etc years from the interest etc. This should get her interested in savings when she's in a good mood, not angry or resentful or anything. Suggest, but don't insist, that the money you are giving to her would be great in that long-term savings account.
Step 4 - let go.

Step 5, of course, is getting her the support she needs to overcome that spending habit.

She may have a problem with spending, but you have a problem with accepting her the way she is and with lying to her. Neither of those problems are horrible, and both can be dealt with by being honest and trusting and all of those other techniques.

Do whatever it takes to stay happily married. Some overspending is a heck of a lot cheaper than a divorce.

Good luck.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Great post GTaudiophile! I would definitely recommend the OP to take up a plan like what you described.
To the OP ?
As many of the people have pointed out your real problem here is that you have lost trust in your partner. A loss of trust in a relationship tends to become systemic, and ultimately will lead to the demise of your relationship. I can already see that happening in your relationship. You do not trust her with money, so you do not tell her about a raise (it has widened to your job) when she finds out she will lose some trust in your word (you have had to lie about many things to pull this off.) From here it can just expand outward indefinitely.
The problem is some people really can not be trusted, either because they simply are too irresponsible, or because they have an addiction. The key to a relationship surviving this type of problem is to get both people to recognize that one of them can not be trusted in a very specific set of circumstances, but can be trusted in all other circumstances. The person that can not be trusted must agree to give up all responsibility to that part of their life, and trust the other person to do what is best for them. In return both agree to be honest with each other about all things.

There is, of course, a lot more too all this. Like how do you get someone to give up something like the ability to spend money, and how do you learn to trust one another again. I could write a book about this, and there are many of them out there, but I think that you follow these simple premises you will find your own way:

1. You love each other, and that means you choose to be together.
2. There is nothing so shameful that you can?t tell each other.
3. There is nothing so hurtful that you can?t forgive each other.

If you remember those three things always, you will find a way to be happy.

 

[thirdeye]

Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
posts like this make me appreciate my wife a lot more...

+1 there. She's the more sensible one even though i bring in 90% of the income.

 

[Skel]

At what point did you think that keeping this from her would be a good idea? I mean, come on, you of all people should know how this would work out. If the money is in another account, being the one that you pay bills out of, then what is the deal with not telling her? It's not like she's going to have access to that account. You know she's going to be pissed about it, when isn't she? Though this time she kinda has the right.

As for her spending too much, work it out. It wasn't that long ago it was you that was buying pack after pack.


Skel