How warm would battery heated clothing be? (Was soldering USB connector to battery pack)

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
four 18650 batteries in series = 14.8v




for use with something similar to this.
it'll be in either the inside pocket or taped to the back of my fleece vest




it looks like just connect wire to wire.
How warm would this be?
 
Last edited:

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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?? I might need more details but what you've shown doesn't seem compatible. You have very basic track resistance heater boards meant for use from 5V USB at (probably) 500mA, 2.5W.

Using 4 x 18650 for 14.4V, you'll either burn yourself, melt whatever they're in contact with, or just delaminate and destroy the heater modules.

You could "maybe" run 3 modules in series to the battery pack. They'll be a bit above design power at full battery pack charge and a bit below at low battery pack charge, or just run a buck regulator for 5.0V output.

I assume you're using protected cells, as a generic battery protection board is (usually) meant for one ~3.6V cell not 4 in series.

Don't know what you mean about soldering USB to the battery pack. You'd only need two wires, VCC and Gnd to operate a heater, but a USB socket is not rated for a useful amount of current in a heater application and there's really no reason to use one unless each heater module came with a USB plug already on it, but then it's starting to get bulky... maybe just carry a bunch of metal weights in your pockets instead and a heavier coat, then the extra calories you burn will keep you warmer?

Instead of those little PCB track elements I'd sooner get long mylar-ish flexible elements that run down your arms and into gloves. I vaguely recall seeing some on an electronics surplus site a few (years?) back but can't find them now, maybe on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=flexible+heater
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
ok, looks like soldering USB to the battery pack is out since it's only 2 wire.
changing my OP and removing this:

You only need to use the power wires if you are not using any data transfer over the USB connection.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
And like he said you will need a controller board/buck converter to get the battery pack down to 5V.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
?? I might need more details but what you've shown doesn't seem compatible. You have very basic track resistance heater boards meant for use from 5V USB at (probably) 500mA, 2.5W.

Using 4 x 18650 for 14.4V, you'll either burn yourself, melt whatever they're in contact with, or just delaminate and destroy the heater modules.

Instead of those little PCB track elements I'd sooner get long mylar-ish flexible elements that run down your arms and into gloves. I vaguely recall seeing some on an electronics surplus site a few (years?) back but can't find them now, maybe on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=flexible+heater
ahh.. so try to stay within the heating element rating?

using unprotected 18650.
I can get 3 x 18650 = 11.1v

thx for the tip about flexible elements.

1a) how about this battery pack:


1b) with this 12v flexible element?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-15x...078466?hash=item283a8e07c2:g:m~gAAOSw-0xYUpM-



how hot and how long will it last if I connect the battery pack (Westinghouse 2000mAh unprotected batteries) directly to the flexible element?
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,201
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You do not want to connect (only) unprotected batteries. There is nothing to stop them from draining too low. A resistive heating element would drain them well below a damaging level.

While a 3 cell pack closer aligns to that flexible element's needs, it is not what I would do. With already limited battery capacity to heat, I would not reduce the # of cells. Plus, that particular element is 75W, could get too hot and is roughly 6A current so from a series 2A battery pack, you'd only get 1/3rd of an hour... really longer than that because as the pack voltage drops, so does current but you're still not wanting the pack to drop too low.

Using a 75W @ 12V element, I'd sooner go with a 4 x cell battery holder and rewire it so it used 2 parallel series of two cells. Wattage drops but runtime gets up to a few hours which is a parameter you didn't mention but it seems as though if you're going to bother, it ought to run for a few hours.

The other issue with that element is it's only 1000mm. Usually you would want the heat at your extremities the most and that's not long enough to span from hand, up arm and across chest over to the other hand, nor do your legs. If it were a survival situation and you didn't care about not losing your fingers and toes as much as keeping core temperature up then I'd sooner think wrapping it around your midsection would be acceptable.

Otherwise I'd look at getting 2, or 4 elements setup for 12V and 1/2 or 1/4th the rated wattage each, again run a 2 parallel, 2 series battery pack if not even more cells, OR run the heating elements in series or for 4, 2 parallel series of 2 then your 4 series battery pack would work unaltered.

That's just a shot in the dark, ultimately a lot of testing would be needed to hit the right runtime vs heat. It's not going to be something quick and easy to do without any voltage regulation unless you get very lucky and even then, unprotected cells are a bad idea.

Even though it's an efficiency loss (which becomes heat, so not all bad in this application) I'd want an adjustable voltage buck circuit, then you have direct control over how hot it gets vs runtime, and a custom battery protection board between the pack and it, that can be set to disconnect the pack when it reaches (# of cells * 2.8V/cell = lowest safe) discharge voltage. Even that depends on using roughly equal capacity cells so they're all hitting 2.8V near the same time. Generic 2000mAh cells you might not be able to trust to be that near in capacity without matching them using a charger capable of rating their true capacity, and should retest their capacity after some use.

It would be easier to just pay $160 for the pre-made heated jacket where they've already done the work for you, and where you have someone else to sue if you burst into flames.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Mindless1,

thx!
sigh.. so much for a $10 setup.

hm.. so how hot would two protected 18650's in series be?
and how long would it last?
and since it's 7.4v, would it be ok to use 5v rated heating element?
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,201
1,500
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No you don't want to overvolt a resistive heating element by more than a few % if that. 7.4V is too high and it's not even 7.4V it's 8.4V because of the peak Li-Ion charge voltage.

Using two cells is moving the wrong direction. You want more cells not less for heat. Heat gobbles up power.

You can under-drive heating elements and it's probably what you'll want to do, which is why using an adjustable output buck driver is a good idea. Outside temperatures vary as does the length of time you'd be outside. What is considered "warm enough" and "long enough" will vary.

The math is fairly simple to divide battery mAh by heater element current, if you have a fixed voltage. If you're just depending on direct drive then the longer it runs the lower the heat output but the longer and longer it runs till it destroys the batteries or a low voltage cutout saves them. There's no quick, easy way to design this unless you get very lucky and aren't picky. Educated guesses would help but just picking the cheapest heating elements won't.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
hm.. how about this heating pad with controller and a standard 5v 18650 USB power bank?





duct tape the pad to the back of my vest: $10
2 cell power bank for inside chest pocket: $1
two Westinghouse 18650 unprotected 2000mAh batteries for the power bank: $1 (clearance at Walmart)
Total = $12

Will this work?
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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lol, i have no idea if it's good or just creative marketing. It seems a lot easier to just stay inside where it's warm.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,937
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www.anyf.ca
Funny, I was just thinking about that today, that heated gloves would be nice. Maybe heated boots too. Hands and feet are the parts that get the coldest I find. Because of rain I realized that outdoor construction projects are actually better done in winter so everything stays dry, but then I need to wear gloves. If I decided to work throughout the peak of winter when it gets -15 and colder regularly then after a while gloves would still be too cold, so could make some heated ones. Consider how hot a 40w soldering iron gets, so I'm thinking like 10 watts per hand would probably be enough. It could also be on a thermostat so it turns on/off.

A decent 18650 will deliver 3200mah so 2 in series would deliver roughly 25wh (I just calculated 4 volts per cell to get a close enough average of the actual voltage). So it would run one 10w glove for about 2 hours if you consider the thermostat cycling so they're not always on. (remember you never actually want to discharge a battery to capacity) Though, you could maybe even get away with 5w... Or you can just up the battery pack. The battery pack could just go around your wrist like a big watch and you'd have two. Or have a wire go through your coat and it can be in a pocket. You of course want a voltage regulator not only to deliver a set voltage, but to monitor the input voltage so it shuts off if it gets too low. Make the battery packs easy to change/charge and you could just have several of them ready to go if you plan to work outside for a while.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
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A decent 18650 will deliver 3200mah so 2 in series would deliver roughly 25wh (I just calculated 4 volts per cell to get a close enough average of the actual voltage).

So it would run one 10w glove for about 2 hours if you consider the thermostat cycling so they're not always on. (remember you never actually want to discharge a battery to capacity)
looks the 2 x 18650 power bank i linked above (11/3 post) is in parallel so 3.7v.

so if I used unprotected 18650s, that power bank will catch on fire if I use it too much on that heated cloth?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,937
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www.anyf.ca
looks the 2 x 18650 power bank i linked above (11/3 post) is in parallel so 3.7v.

so if I used unprotected 18650s, that power bank will catch on fire if I use it too much on that heated cloth?

It's not so much that it will catch on fire (though it can, I think mostly during charging) but it will degrade it's life very fast. I read something to the effect that when you discharge deeply it also can physically damage it, which is where the fire comes in.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
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I had a Bosch electric jacket. It got very warm for a very short time. I'd need a huge stash of batteries to keep the thing running for a full day outdoors.
 
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