How/why did Amd/ATI fall behind Nvidia?

[SolMiester]

Title assumes a conclusion without providing any logic to back it up? Check.
Easily identifiable, hard factual qualifications to prevent flame war easily available? (E.g. Why is AMD trailing in market share)? Check.
A few dozen word long OP? Check.

Diagnosis: Flame Bait Thread.

I don't see any intentional flame bait, only a few 'posters' getting upset about AMDs future, if they have one. Or do we have to tread on egg shells when discussing AMD?

 

[Headfoot]

I don't see any intentional flame bait, only a few 'posters' getting upset about AMDs future, if they have one. Or do we have to tread on egg shells when discussing AMD?

Lol.

So you think a thread where:
1. Two sentence OP.
2. Orginal Poster doesn't come back.
3. Doesn't even identify in what metric (performance? Market share? Price? Power Consumption? Perf/$?) AMD is purportedly 'falling behind'

isn't flame bait?

If so, I've got a bridge to sell you. Real cheap too.

 

[96Firebird]

The OP hasn't logged in since the post, maybe something happened to them called LIFE. Not everyone dailies this forum...

Everyone else seems to be having an intelligent discussion, debating facts and figures. Sorry you don't like to see those facts in front of you, maybe shielding yourself from this thread is your best bet. :thumbsup:

 

[AnandThenMan]

Isn't this just beating a dead horse at this point? We've had many threads on how/why AMD is dying/dead/going bankrupt rinse repeat. And the theme continues in just about any thread involving AMD, they don't have the resources, they are going out of business.

It's like some people are obsessed and can't stop talking about this. I remember in 2012/2013 several people said AMD would be dead "any day now". We'll they're still kicking so maybe can we just ease up on the obituary talk until/if it actually happens? It's very annoying to read the same thing over and over in any thread talking about AMD products.

 

[iiiankiii]

Why dont you take us throught this then....7970 came out at high than normal price for AMD, by with broken CF drivers for first 6mths, then followed 2 yrs until FCATs was acceptable on CF 7xxx, but agin, excluding >1600p and not DX9 CF.
680 came out at same price as previous x80 series card, about $50 cheaper, and at time, faster.
Meanwhile, NV then re-releases keplar to 770 and 79xx catches up with 680 performance but still no fixed CF drivers.
780 came out and took crown again, 290 released, takes crown 780Ti out, takes crown back......
290 on release got sucked up by miners, so people paid inflated prices anyway. AMD has nothing more to release so has spent last 12 mths improving drivers....well, if thats all you have to play with, I would hope they would do their best to improve performance.
Fact of the matter is, neither 680, 290 ot 780's are good enough for 4k, so no GPU is out in front of the others.
Im struggling to see your point.

I agree. Kepler sucks. Especially the 660TI with that funky memory layout. Not enough VRAM, not great on power consumption, and worst of all, taking a nose drive in performance in recent games. Doesn't look good.

 

[desura]

The OP hasn't logged in since the post, maybe something happened to them called LIFE. Not everyone dailies this forum...

Everyone else seems to be having an intelligent discussion, debating facts and figures. Sorry you don't like to see those facts in front of you, maybe shielding yourself from this thread is your best bet. :thumbsup:

Yeah, life happens. I've been lurking and reading posts though. Just don't have much to say. Reason I started this thread is Amd stock is cheap right now.

Last time I shopped for video cards about two years ago, it was pretty clear Imo that Nvidia products were better. PhysX was also a factor in my purchase since the effects are pretty cool. Looking at gaming laptops today, the high end with dGPU are pretty much a Nvidia monopoly.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Reason I started this thread is Amd stock is cheap right now.

If you think on buying any, dont. Too many already lost money that way.

 

[96Firebird]

Isn't this just beating a dead horse at this point? We've had many threads on how/why AMD is dying/dead/going bankrupt rinse repeat. And the theme continues in just about any thread involving AMD, they don't have the resources, they are going out of business.

Now you have a thread to point them to so they don't derail the other ones! :thumbsup:

 

[Goatsecks]

Can this not get moved out of the neutral zone and into either the green or red camp subsection?

Not sure which fan base is self-fellating the most here.

 

[sandorski]

Can this not get moved out of the neutral zone and into either the green or red camp subsection?

Not sure which fan base is self-fellating the most here.

Doesn't belong in either, especially since it's a load of BS to begin with.

 

[videogames101]

Isn't it obvious? AMD ruined ATI.

 

[RibeyeAndScotch]

For everyone's sake, I hope AMD seriously turns it around and becomes a contender like back in the day.

 

[SolMiester]

Lol.

So you think a thread where:
1. Two sentence OP.
2. Orginal Poster doesn't come back.
3. Doesn't even identify in what metric (performance? Market share? Price? Power Consumption? Perf/$?) AMD is purportedly 'falling behind'

isn't flame bait?

If so, I've got a bridge to sell you. Real cheap too.

LOL, you need to calm down, no one is judging you because you have an AMD GPU!...

 

[swilli89]

This thread is pure garbage. Maybe if it was vs Intel in the CPU forum but for video cards the entire premise is false. Now I'm just one more sucker adding to this trash heap's post count.

Sad day when reddit video card forums have less shills than mother F'ing Anandtech forums.

 

[blastingcap]

Lol.

So you think a thread where:
1. Two sentence OP.
2. Orginal Poster doesn't come back.
3. Doesn't even identify in what metric (performance? Market share? Price? Power Consumption? Perf/$?) AMD is purportedly 'falling behind'

isn't flame bait?

If so, I've got a bridge to sell you. Real cheap too.

If you're going to say that then don't forget to mention the partisan posters here with low post counts.

However, I agree that this topic is pretty much a dead horse now, no sense beating it.

 

[AnandThenMan]

If you think on buying any, dont. Too many already lost money that way.

AMD stock is awesome, best I've seen in the last 3-4 years. It drops to around $2 then goes up to $3.50 or $4, and then drops. Steady pattern if you're patient. Not sure if it is going to go up again in the near future but your advice is way, way off.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Performance wise, HD4870 was not faster than GTX280.

4870 was better than 260. 4890 was comparable to 280.

But 4870/4890 were much older. Once 5xxx series released they beat the crap outta nvidia for several months. Check the full post, I said 4890 originally competed with 280 but nvidia was a bit better but in a few months that changed. In another few months it again changed with 480 being better than 5870 but not as good value.

And 4870 was way better value than gtx 260/280. I'm not only talking of pure performance but a mix of pure performance and vfm, as that is what gamers really need.

4870 had way better performance per $$$ than any nvidia card that time.

 

[Dribble]

AMD is failing for so many reasons mostly starting with management failing. So many bad choices - major ones being:
-the massively overpriced Ati deal sucking too many funds leaving them fighting debt all the time.
-The basically corrupt Global foundries deal locking them in to buying too many dies from a substandard foundry, and then stilling having to pay hundreds of millions of dollars at the end of every year for nothing.
-Not capitalizing when they did have a competitive advantage and trying to suck money out of consumers short term instead of investing to staying ahead (90nm is good enough!).
-Continuously missing market trends and always ending up being reactive. Lets sell our mobile gpu for peanuts just before mobile sales explode. Lets go from having supercomputers filled with opterons and a prime opportunity to pounce with gpu compute, to letting nvidia with no supercomputer history taking the whole market. Completely failing to spot the increasing importance of power efficiency, and ending up locked out of several markets (e.g. gaming laptops) due to lack of products.
-Failing repeatedly to manage supply and demand either leaving them with tons of worthless stock (cpu's many times) or no stock at all (not enough stock to actually make much money during the mining craze).
-Inability to recognize the importance of good software for gpu's and just relying on MS/Intel to write it all. Then falling flat the moment they release something not backed by MS/Intel and wondering why no one is using their great new feature (e.g. who did they think were going to make APU's work - the open source fairies?).
-Years of power point marketing hype never living up to the hype in the real world meaning no one believes them any longer (e.g. worst being the APU or whatever they called it then which still has failed to amount to much more then a cpu with embedded gpu, and was so late Intel beat them to market by about a year despite not owning a world leading gpu company. More recently bulldozer, massively late and under performing compared to what the power points promised. In gpu various "me too" initiatives like havok fx, bullet, whatever AMD's 3d thing was called that amounted to nothing).

 

[Keysplayr]

That certainly is a lot for any company to weather, even with a lot of resources behind it. Many unfortunate decisions and i think that sale of their mobile IP was the most damaging.

 

[sm625]

People who bought 780s got royally screwed over. But if this process of getting bilked by nvidia simply forces them to buy 980s, then its a win for nvidia. The consumer is not smart. The consumer is NOT savvy. The consumer responds to advertising, regardless of value. The review sites have consistently handed AMD cards more recommendations over the past 5 years than nvidia cards. But it matters not. If 980ti goes the way 780ti did, then we're talking about hundreds more dollars wasted. But most of those people who wasted that money will simply waste more on the next nvidia flagship that cripples itself over time. Looking at the performance landscape, it is unfathomable how much nvidia was charging for 780ti. That is the hallmark of a successful company, but is it really something you want to cheer for? Makes no sense at all...

 

[NTMBK]

That certainly is a lot for any company to weather, even with a lot of resources behind it. Many unfortunate decisions and i think that sale of their mobile IP was the most damaging.

Why? It's not like Tegra has been a money-spinner for NVidia...

 

[Genx87]

Why? It's not like Tegra has been a money-spinner for NVidia...

You understand AMD owned the IP to Adreno right? The same Adreno that Qualcomm used to capture large market share of the mobile market?

What Nvidia has or hasnt been able to accomplish with Tegra is irrelevant to AMDs horribad decision to sell off their mobile IP right as smartphones were starting to explode in growth. Worse, AMD sold it for 65 million. Qualcomm has been laughing to the bank ever since.

 

[exar333]

Why? It's not like Tegra has been a money-spinner for NVidia...

Agreed.

On the other hand, NV may have learned some valuable lessons on efficiency and scalability, which we have seen demonstrated and focused-on, since Kepler. Often these techs, whether it be products or IP, live-on in other ways.

Just with any company, you win some and you lose some. Lots of people preached gloom and doom on NV when their chipsets died-out a while back. They focused on other markets....

Back on-topic to AMD. I don't really see them as 'falling behind' so much. I definitely would say that was the case in the CPU front, because they are using older gens on older process nodes and haven't really competed much in years. For GPUs though, they likely would be matching or even better than NV had 20nm happened. I see the 28nm as a setback for them, but one that was partially out of their control. They just need to limp-by until 16/14nm is here and Fury may very well help them prepare more than NV for true next-gen.

If AMD did fall-behind in any specific GPU areas, I would point to mobile options. The whole 7970M/Enduro debacle really hurt them on the high-end, where they could have really put it to NV for performance PCs like Alienware and Clevo for desktop-replacement style laptops. Then, they didn't offer the efficient mobile parts that NV did and that allowed NV to pretty much own the whole stack for mobile discrete GPUs, as it is easier to configure with a single vendor and max TDP in mind.

AMD needs to find a few really solid laptop partners and start showing what they can do. The alternative is to continue to be completely shut-out in this market area and they don't want to be left in the dust with laptop partners for too long.

 

[AdamK47]

The OP hasn't logged in since the post, maybe something happened to them called LIFE. Not everyone dailies this forum...

Everyone else seems to be having an intelligent discussion, debating facts and figures. Sorry you don't like to see those facts in front of you, maybe shielding yourself from this thread is your best bet. :thumbsup:

Debating and never getting anywhere.

Have threads like these accomplished anything over the years other than to corral those who participate? The continual debate presented with slanted facts and heavy personal bias will always make threads like these on AnandTech irrelevant and a complete waste of time. People debating hardware they don't own and will never buy. I can only get a few posts into these threads until there is a strong urge to click the back button.

 

[NTMBK]

You understand AMD owned the IP to Adreno right? The same Adreno that Qualcomm used to capture large market share of the mobile market?

You think Adreno is the reason Qualcomm were so successful? Haha, no. It's all about the modem tech. AMD had no modem tech, and no money to invest in creating modem tech. (NVidia went out and bought Icera, and they still couldn't compete.)