HTC One Camera question

[mojothehut]

Hey all,
Well I was set to buy an HTC One very soon, but compared its specs to the SGS4 and well.. really? only a 4mp camera?
Sadly I may have to wait a month now and go with the Samsung for that juicy 13mp camera.

Anyway my question is this,
What does "4MP w/ 2µm pixels" mean? I just read it as 4MP w/ ????

I've heard talk that the HTC is built "better" than the SGS4, like tougher, more durable? I dont know, but that fairly mediocre camera bothers me

 

[fstime]

I am not sure about the specifics, but more megapixels is more of a marketing thing and does not actually reflect quality accurately so I would not judge soley by that number.

The HTC case is a single piece of aluminum, so it will feel superior to the plastic Samsung just like unibody aluminum Macbook Pro's first felt in comparison to their PC counterparts.

 

[vshah]

2µm pixels means that each individual pixel is much larger, and therefore collects more light. as a result, the 4mp camera in the htc one will probably perform better in low light than the round of 13mp cameras in phones like the galaxy s4

following Brian Klug's tweets on twitter as he's been reviewing the phone, he seems to like the camera a lot, especially it's low-light capability.

 

[ChronoReverse]

It has better optical stabilization and low light performance. It's a trade off in terms of megapixels.

As for you, how often are you looking at images above 1080p which would already be larger than you'd find on Facebook.

 

[beginner99]

Mega pixel race is just as stupid as the Ghz race with cpu was. high mega pixel alone don't say much about the quality of the pictures.

And as said 4 MP is enough. Most people never view their pics at more than 1080p which is far lower resolution than 4 MP camera gives you. The only downside is that you can zoom in less on a specific area of the pic before you start seeing pixels. Or you can blow it up less in case you indent to make huge posters. But for either use, get a real camera...

IMHO HTC One does it right. When do you use your phone cam? A lot when you are out probably, in clubs and bars were it is "dark".

 

[MD90]

The 2um pixels are four times the size of the 1.1um pixels in the GS4 and collect much more photons, so expect much better low light performance on the HTC One (coupled with optical image stabilization and an f/2.0 lens)

And really - are you really going to use a 13 megapixels when 99% of computer monitors are <2560x1600 (4MP), and Instagram an Facebook resize and heavily compress your photos anyway? Would you take 13 noise-laden, grainy, unsharp megapixels or 4 megapixels of quality?

It's as someone else said, exactly like the gigahertz race. Your Pentium D runs at 3.7GHz? Great. My 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo will beat it any day of the week.

 

[mojothehut]

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful info. Several replies asking how I use my camera.
Well not so much in low light. I love armature outdoors nature scenes type of pictures. From grand vistas to close ups of spiders (yes, spiders...)

I'm sure the cameras from both will be a nice upgrade to my blackberry Torch

 

[Red Storm]

From The Verge regarding the One's camera:

That's all nice to have (the camera feature list), but it doesn't change the fact that the pictures I took on the One just don't look very good. Sure, shots are bright and colors are good, but it's clear noise reduction processing is running roughshod all over the photos you take, leaving them soft and mushy even in good lighting. Nothing looks sharp or crisp, no matter the situation. Things look fine at Facebook or Instagram sizes, which HTC is clearly betting is all you need, but when you zoom or crop, photos lose a lot of their luster. I like the shots I'm able to get with the One's camera &#8212; I've started taking more pictures in dark restaurants, or on the street at night &#8212; but I'm not always impressed with the shots I get.

 

[TuxDave]

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful info. Several replies asking how I use my camera.
Well not so much in low light. I love armature outdoors nature scenes type of pictures. From grand vistas to close ups of spiders (yes, spiders...)

I'm sure the cameras from both will be a nice upgrade to my blackberry Torch

"low light" doesn't mean it's so dark you can barely see. Imagine a typical fancy restaurant. That's low enough light to make a lot of camera phone pictures look like crap. So to me, low light performance is pretty important since a lot of pictures that I take on my phone are of mostly social gathering and majority of those aren't in the outdoor daylight.

 

[s44]

This isn't a clear win for one camera over the other in all situations. If you take more pics out on the town after dark, you'll get more benefit from the HTC. If you take well-lit outdoor pics, the Samsung should definitely shine.

Seems like the OP is definitely on the latter side. As far as feel in the hand, all phones feel the same inside a case... but the metal ones are unnecessarily heavier. And in fact the unibody metal actually makes the device *less* durable: there's less flex and no back cover to pop off and divert a lot of the energy from hitting the ground away from the one vulnerable part -- the screen.

 

[Munky]

I'll take a good 4MP camera any day over a crappy 13MP camera. I thought people were generally aware of the megapixel myth by now. Unfortunately, the sample images I've seen from the HTC One don't live up to its promise of superior image quality.

 

[WelshBloke]

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful info. Several replies asking how I use my camera.
Well not so much in low light. I love armature outdoors nature scenes type of pictures. From grand vistas to close ups of spiders (yes, spiders...)

I'm sure the cameras from both will be a nice upgrade to my blackberry Torch

For close ups the S4 camera might be better. Your going to be able to zoom and crop a lot more than the One camera.

As for build its a very subjective thing. Go to a store and have a fiddle with each one.

 

[Silenus]

The 13MP is completely a marketing number. That is not to say it won't be a decent cell phone camera...but if it is it has nothing to do with it being 13MP. The only time that it [/i]might[/i] be better than a good quality 4MP was if you had an end use in mind for the pictures that demanded a high enough res that 4MP would not be enough (unlikely for a great many people). However...there is more than just low light performance too. It's a good bet that the larger more sensitive pixels of the ONE will have better dynamic range than the very tiny pixels of the 13MP. And that can make quality difference even when shooting in "good" bright light.

All this being said...there has not yet been a GOOD test comparison of the ONE's camera vs other phones...let alone the S4. I am still waiting to see the results of a decent test done with the the ONE camera.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Your going to be able to zoom and crop a lot more than the One camera.

Hmmm.

So basically the higher the megapixel the better the digital zoom?

Because I always use that seeing as how phones lack real zoom.

(sidenote: a few years later and I still want to type Xoom)

 

[ncroadster]

2µm pixels means that each individual pixel is much larger, and therefore collects more light. as a result, the 4mp camera in the htc one will probably perform better in low light than the round of 13mp cameras in phones like the galaxy s4

following Brian Klug's tweets on twitter as he's been reviewing the phone, he seems to like the camera a lot, especially it's low-light capability.

Thanks, Brian really knows his stuff! :thumbsup:

OP, all current smartphones have really tiny sensors. So it's doesn't matter if you cram 4MP or 13MP in it, the pics will be similar in quality.

 

[s44]

So basically the higher the megapixel the better the digital zoom?

Yup.

I really don't think you can argue that the One camera will be better *for the OP*.

 

[dagamer34]

From The Verge regarding the One's camera:

I love The Verge as much as the next guy, but there is absolutely no point in trusting the camera reviews of any tech website that does not consistently shoot the same thing in a controlled environment. They need to learn what a freaking ISO 12233 chart is. When you start using phrases like "more true to life", that's why companies can get away with 13MP crap.

Unless the sensor size has increased, more MP DOES NOT MATTER.

Also, smartphone camera shootouts that don't include a reference from a dSLR are a farce. There's no way for the reader to know which one is "accurate". You also need to do blind testing like CNET does (the person shooting the image isn't the one picking which one is the "best"), so you eliminate any selection bias.

Doing this stuff isn't hard and may take a bit more time, but it goes a LONG way towards getting rid of any hint of fanboyism so you don't have to make statements like "I tend to prefer the shots from the iPhone 5".

Anyway, wait for GSMArena to have shots of the HTC One up on their photo comparison tool: http://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3

I recommend everyone read this article as there's a ton of science that goes into optics in phone cameras: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6777/understanding-camera-optics-smartphone-camera-trends

 

[Dari]

Maybe the camera should be something OEMs focus on next. SONY and their 13MP sensors found in all these high end phones aren't really impressive. Someone should do to SONY what SONY did to Nikon and Canon in the DSLR market.

 

[dagamer34]

Maybe the camera should be something OEMs focus on next. SONY and their 13MP sensors found in all these high end phones aren't really impressive. Someone should do to SONY what SONY did to Nikon and Canon in the DSLR market.

What are you trying to imply here? All mid-to-high end photographers still use dSLRs instead of mirrorless cameras. The sensor is also only one of many parts of the equation which includes the lenses and image signal processor (ISP), as well as any other custom algorithms for white balance and sharpening. And of course, you absolutely cannot compare camera quality of pictures on phones themselves, you need to use an external monitor, preferably a calibrated one.

 

[Dari]

What are you trying to imply here? All mid-to-high end photographers still use dSLRs instead of mirrorless cameras. The sensor is also only one of many parts of the equation which includes the lenses and image signal processor (ISP), as well as any other custom algorithms for white balance and sharpening. And of course, you absolutely cannot compare camera quality of pictures on phones themselves, you need to use an external monitor, preferably a calibrated one.

SONY has shaken up the prosumer market, getting people to migrate from DSLRs to mirror less cameras. They have arguably the best cameras in that market and their choices are more varied than any other manufacturer. And they've only been doing prosumer and professional cameras for less than a decade now.

As for the phone market, Canon and Nikon are nowhere to be found, letting SONY eat their lunch. the P&S market is dying and those two giants are doing nothing about it...

 

[ElFenix]

Hmmm.

So basically the higher the megapixel the better the digital zoom?

Because I always use that seeing as how phones lack real zoom.

(sidenote: a few years later and I still want to type Xoom)

not really. ultimately you're just blowing up the image. so if that smaller part of the image is terrible, you're just enlarging the terrible.

Also, smartphone camera shootouts that don't include a reference from a dSLR are a farce. There's no way for the reader to know which one is "accurate". You also need to do blind testing like CNET does (the person shooting the image isn't the one picking which one is the "best"), so you eliminate any selection bias.

whenever i'm looking at 100% samples on dpreview i pick a 35mm SLR on iso 100 to see what the image should look like.

it'd be even better test if the test were conducted at the same print/view size, but not even most camera review sites do that, so i can't really expect a consumerific gadget site to do it.

 

[lopri]

All this being said...there has not yet been a GOOD test comparison of the ONE's camera vs other phones...let alone the S4. I am still waiting to see the results of a decent test done with the the ONE camera.

I agree with this. Actually using them and comparing the results are the only way to make a judgment. Since these next-gen phones are not available yet, there will be plenty of occasions to see/read for yourselves before saying whose solution is better.

 

[Munky]

SONY has shaken up the prosumer market, getting people to migrate from DSLRs to mirror less cameras. They have arguably the best cameras in that market and their choices are more varied than any other manufacturer. And they've only been doing prosumer and professional cameras for less than a decade now.

As for the phone market, Canon and Nikon are nowhere to be found, letting SONY eat their lunch. the P&S market is dying and those two giants are doing nothing about it...

That's what Sony would like everyone to believe. In reality, Nikon cameras beat Sony, even when using the same Sony sensor. That's not even mentioning vastly more diverse lens lineup. While gullible consumers may go for Sony, the professionals or even the hobby enthusiasts go with Nikon or Canon for a reason.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

not really. ultimately you're just blowing up the image. so if that smaller part of the image is terrible, you're just enlarging the terrible.

Right but even with the megapixels race, we've gotten better imaging processing chips and what not. So the 13MP you have might be junk pixels, but so was the 5MP camera back in 2009. You end up getting more junk pixels to give you a better overall image than fewer junk pixels.

So I'd argue that with higher resolution pictures, we're actually seeing some benefit in cropability. While I do agree there's a megapixel race going on, let's see if going back to 2005's 2MP cameras gives us better images. I doubt it. And while HTC's camera might give you decent low light exposure, in a lot of cases the 4MP just isn't sharp enough due to lack of resolution in broad daylight.

 

[Dari]

That's what Sony would like everyone to believe. In reality, Nikon cameras beat Sony, even when using the same Sony sensor. That's not even mentioning vastly more diverse lens lineup. While gullible consumers may go for Sony, the professionals or even the hobby enthusiasts go with Nikon or Canon for a reason.

Not when it comes to light, professional cameras...