HTPC build vs. alternatives

[kdubbs]

Howdy folks,

I was hoping the AnandTech community could help me out with my latest tech dilemma: should I build a multi-purpose HTPC or just buy consumer electronics that accomplish the same thing.

My goal is to stream media to my TV/living room HiFi system (music, ripped DVD movies, Netflix) in a way that is both flexible and cost-effective. Another big consideration is that my wife should be able to use this solution with minimal headaches. Blu-ray capability would be nice as I have a 40” 1080P Toshiba LCD TV. Finally, it needs to remain in the Microsoft “ecosystem” as I am a Zune marketplace subscriber, ruling out Linux/XBMC/Boxee.

Option one: the HTPC.

I live near a Microcenter, so I can build the following:

AthlonII X4 640: $95
MSI 785GM-P45 (AMD 4200 integrated graphics): Free
G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600: $50
Crucial C300 64 GB SSD: $135 (just missed the Newegg shellshocker, damn)
Lite-on 4X blu-ray OEM: $50
Silverstone Grandia micro-ATX case: $100
Silverstone ST40F-ES 400W power supply: $49
IOGear GKM561R wireless keyboard: $50
TP-link TL-WN722Nwireless adapter: $20
Windows 7: $61
Shipping: $30
~ $640 total

(could save $185 w/ apex dm-387 case+power supply and a 500GB spindle HD, but sheesh, that case is a little fugly—keep in mind the WAF, Wife Acceptance Factor as well at the CPSF, Craptastic Power Supply Factor)

Option two:

Xbox 360: $200
Blu-ray player: Sony BDP-S370: $150

~ $350

Other options include Zotac barebones systems based on CULV/Brazos processors. I’d like stay away from Atom-based systems. However, these approach the cost of the HTPC above, but at a fraction of the performance.

Bitstreaming is not a concern as my receiver precedes the HDMI era (Pioneer Elite-VSX-43TX)

I love building stuff, but in this case, I can’t justify the added cost/complexity of the DIY approach. Am I mistaken? Any input or alternative suggestions are most appreciated.

 

[notposting]

Well, for the HTPC aspect, a few possibilities and questions:

Can you hide the PC? I use a MS remote sensor that has about a 6 foot cable for it, so if I wanted to hide the case in an entertainment center/behind TV, I could.

What about a pre-built PC? Get a cheapo and add a Bluray drive (and remote control) to it, the readers seem to be getting fairly cheap. edit: As long as they can handle Bluray playback, that's about all the performance needed.

My setup is probably a bad example, but the WAF is pretty high and the HTPC flexibility is obviously unlimited. Remember, you can always improve and add to it over time.

 

[wirednuts]

if youre gonna build an htpc and not doing serious gaming, you might as well go for a low-power solution. change what you have to like a amd 600e, lower the ram to 2 or 3gb, and go with a slightly smaller/more efficient power supply. i honestly would go for an mITX build too, because the smaller the better for htpc's, and mITX is still big enough to house desktop components. that, and anything else you might need can be hooked up via usb.

 

[Emulex]

i got an asus essentio for $180 off cowboom (similar to ebay). Core2Quad 2.5ghz,8gb DDR2,built in audio,video,geforce 220 dual link dvi - gigabit ethernet on board, goofy box but it all dropped into the next line:
Antec Microfusion 350 $79 newegg. pretty quiet. wife did the install for me all dropped right in.
Lenovo keyboard $25 - best remote so far for XBMC + 7MC + browsing in that price range.
Geforce 430 (to replace the geforce 220 for true sequential 3D) - not necessary for most people. $49
windows 7 ultimate (SLIC baby) FREE
hdhomerum dual tuner QAM ($99)
netflix $8.99/month

I have a laptop with a blu-ray reader to rip the .iso but honestly i think its a waste of time to buy one unless they are BF $29.99 pricing fora reader.
XBMC
browser
7Media Center
I just added a X25-V to reduce the noise factor.


8gb of ram is lame - waste - 3gb would be fine.
SSD helps reduce the noise alot! but keep a drive in the machine to do local storage.
Building your own you lose the nifty OEM SLIC licensing which lets you reload your windows as much as you want without having to beg the mcirosoft police. it's legal.

So those are my numbers. pretty cheap. core 2 quad 2.5ghz with turbo mode can soft-decode 4K video so i figure its good to go for 5-10 years - don't have to buy an apple tv3 to do 1080p then buy a appletv4 to do 2K video then buy a appletv5 to do 4K video - just rock out with my current rig.

 

[Brainonska511]

You could probably get by with an X2 or X3 processor and 2GB of RAM. Skip the solid state drive - I doubt it would make a big difference in an HTPC. It would also cut the cost a lot.

if youre gonna build an htpc and not doing serious gaming, you might as well go for a low-power solution. change what you have to like a amd 600e, lower the ram to 2 or 3gb, and go with a slightly smaller/more efficient power supply. i honestly would go for an mITX build too, because the smaller the better for htpc's, and mITX is still big enough to house desktop components. that, and anything else you might need can be hooked up via usb.

mITX is nice, but you might want to throw in a graphics card or tv tuner at a later point, and you wouldn't be able to do both (unless you used a USB tuner).

SSD helps reduce the noise alot! but keep a drive in the machine to do local storage.

I have a 1TB 5400RPM drive in my HTPC and I can never hear the hard drive. At most, I might hear one of the two fans in the machine (exhaust or heatsink), but it is practically inaudible at 4-6 ft.

I built the HTPC in my sig for about $470 (includes TV tuner) and it works fabulously. Blu-ray playback is perfect, machine is quiet enough and fast enough, sleep functions flawlessly, case is an HEC cheapo-black case. It certainly stands out, but not like a sore thumb or anything. (Plus, I was thinking the other day, that even with a more HTPC-oriented case, my TV stand would not be deep enough to fit it in, so it would still stand out).

 

[SirGCal]

I agree; dump the SSD. It's not going to gain you anything in an HTPC. Even a low 5400 RPM drive would be just fine. But myself, I've used smaller WD Blues for this particular issue. Cheap and large and silent and cool, all at the same time.

Also, sticking with uATX can save money over mITX.

I've built a bunch of them with the following which offer flawless blu-ray playback and everything else: (Prices from the NewEgg, rounded up to the next dollar)

• AMD Athlon X2 250 ($60) (More then enough overkill for HTPC's tasks)
• Biostar A880G+ ($65)
• LG BluRay + DVDr + Lightscribe ($60)
• 320G WD Blue 7200RPM AAJS ($45)
• 4G G.SKILL Ripjaws ($50)

Total: $280.

Add your case/powersupply (as low as $30 if you go bargain lineup or some uATX packages) and OS and you're done. Possibly TV Tuner even. Serious overkill on all counts for any HTPC. Smooth hardware-supported blu-ray playback.

I have this exact setup done for a few clients. Never once a complaint, even from the most stingy. And if you ever need bitstreaming capability, a 5550 or 5450 can be had for minimal cost.

 

[Emulex]

yeah but i conserve electricity so the spinun time sucks. the SSD makes hibernate to full in no time. you must not be that sensitive hearing wise. i could definitely hear the drive and definitely can hear the fans on the antec 350 microfusion. it drives me crazy!!

 

[Brainonska511]

yeah but i conserve electricity so the spinun time sucks. the SSD makes hibernate to full in no time. you must not be that sensitive hearing wise. i could definitely hear the drive and definitely can hear the fans on the antec 350 microfusion. it drives me crazy!!

I have two regular hard drives in my desktop and the time it takes to go from Sleep to ready to use in W7 is nearly instant. I doubt I would notice a difference if it was 2 seconds faster.

I don't think I said my HTPC was silent - merely that when I watching stuff, the fan sound is easily drowned out. It probably helps that I live in an apartment building with noisy heat. The only time I ever notice the an noise is when I'm sitting in front of my tv with the tv off and my computer recording something (so the room has to be quiet too).

I also only have 2 fans to contend with - the exhaust at the rear and the heat sink fan on the processor. I guess the PSU fan is there too, but I can never hear that one in any computer I've ever built. Looks like the Antec case you have has at least 3 case fans... could easily lead to more noise.

 

[SirGCal]

yeah but i conserve electricity so the spinun time sucks. the SSD makes hibernate to full in no time. you must not be that sensitive hearing wise. i could definitely hear the drive and definitely can hear the fans on the antec 350 microfusion. it drives me crazy!!

That's a really cheap excuse... and not entirely accurate either... Your Antec case is anything but silent... If you want a silent setup, you have to build one. Even if you put all your wish list parts in that case, it's going to be no better. You need a case designed for quiet and/or a cooling system better setup to handle quiet.

I have EXTREMELY sensitive hearing. Especially for my age and especially compared to the general average. (See here for more info...) But basically I can hear the neighbors just talking normally inside their house from inside my house if I try (that's house, not apartment) unless I'm sick (like I am right now with my sinuses all fubar).

Anyhow, with a quiet designed conventional HDD, you will not hear it. The Blue drives are pretty good. There are better but they are toward the top. Quiet and silent if in an adequate case (Quieter than any case fans 120mm even anyhow).

Plus, the return from hibernate excuse is just that. An excuse. For watching a few hours of movie or TV, the 2 seconds longer it's going to take isn't squat for your 'power conservation' what-so-ever. And actually, it's been proven that while in use, SSDs use more power (that's why laptops don't last as long with SSDs as with green type HDDs). Now not as much as a performance level drive but we're not talking using Raptors or black type drives. Blue and/or green drives are perfect for HTPCs.

And as for making them 'silent' on air. No problem. You just have to plan carefully. Proper CPU cooling is critical to help keep ambient temperatures down. Power Supply selection can actually be a key also... They do make fanless supplies for this purpose with better passive cooling. More sealed up cases with fewer side-fans and mesh screens are also key. Larger, slower speed case fans are a huge help also (but there are smaller-sized alternatives also) as well as proper fan control. Plus if you create a positive or negative pressure system can help. Plus just where, exactly it is... Being inside a cabnet might not be the most silent-choice actually as the echo-factor comes into play. But there's things to help that as well. Plus you can take some tricks from the likes of Car Audio and get some pieces of Dynamat or similar products to help insulate the case.

Even my gaming rig is near-silent unless I'm actually gaming and the GPU spins up a bit more.

Or if you want to do something really trick (and a conversation piece), although I think it's a completely stupid idea myself (see here for why) but it does in-turn make it even more silent by encasing the entire computer in mineral oil (which also helps with the cooling and does not conduct electricity, but just be sure your rig is 'done' before you ever take the plunge. Cleaning it off is almost impossible.). But yes if you want to go that route, they can be pretty slick and are totally and absolutely silent (even with performance grade hardware in most cases).

So... If you just want to lie to yourself and find someway to justify spending money on basically useless items like SSDs for HTPCs, knock yourself out. But that's all you're doing. And yes, I love SSDs, for where they actually serve a beneficial purpose. I have a bunch of SSDs myself right now for different applications. But none should ever be in an HTPC. I actually do have one older C300 64G Performance SSD in an HTPC just because I have absolutely no other use for it at the moment. And I can tell absolutely zero difference between it and any of my other HTPCs in the house of which I have five at the moment. No 'measurable' difference in audible sound (using my sound-level meter and test equipment) or 'real-world' performance.

Now I do agree, a noisy box drives me bonkers too. One of my file servers currently doesn't have a fan controller due to a failure earlier in it and I can hear it through the doors, through the walls, etc (but no one else can) and I can't stand it. And standing next to it, it only measures 48dB... So it's quieter than an Original Xbox 360. But still, that order is top on my list because I can't stand it.

Now if you just want to blow your $ and make yourself feel better, that's your prerogative. But for HTPCs, you're really wasting money. I mean heck, if you can get that board free with an AMD 250 chip instead, super-deal. But if it's only with the 640, then the price for the board/chip 250 is comperable.. Might as well get the overkill CPU... But the SSD is just wasted money in this type of setup truly. 4G of RAM, well, ram is so cheap, I always do 4G anymore for anything... minimum.. but there are some HTPC tasks that could use a big chunk of that depending so it's still not a waste really depending if it's serving any sort of double-duty. 2G would be plenty though for most though.

It's your decision in the end and your money but... Seriously, the SSD is overkill for the HTPC in every respect.

 

[flensr]

Regarding htpc vs. xbox, remember that your htpc can also accomplish other tasks you might come up with in the future. For example, you might want to set up skype on your TV in the future. You can easily do that with pretty much any htpc as long as you connect it somehow to the internet (wireless-N or G is fine for skype). On the other hand, if you think you might want to play games on your TV, the xbox is the way to go.

Mostly you seem to have a single usage requirement, so you need to identify what else your options can do, and see if the extra flexibility (non-gaming of course) of an HTPC is worth the extra cost.

A last option mentioned by someone else is to buy a pre-made system on sale. I got a really tiny system on closeout for around $200. It came with a 200GB hard drive and some AM2 AMD chip, can't remember which one it was. I replaced the cpu with a lower power x2 cpu, put in more RAM, and put in the fastest/largest "quiet" hard drive I could find at the time. It won't do 1080p due to the video chipset but especially since I can tuck it behind the tv stand, it makes a very nice and cheap multi-purpose machine in the TV room. I can stream netflix on it, do skype, run my music library, etc. You just need to watch the various online sites that sell closeout computers and wait for the right one to come by.

 

[SirGCal]

Regarding htpc vs. xbox, remember that your htpc can also accomplish other tasks you might come up with in the future. For example, you might want to set up skype on your TV in the future. You can easily do that with pretty much any htpc as long as you connect it somehow to the internet (wireless-N or G is fine for skype). On the other hand, if you think you might want to play games on your TV, the xbox is the way to go.

Mostly you seem to have a single usage requirement, so you need to identify what else your options can do, and see if the extra flexibility (non-gaming of course) of an HTPC is worth the extra cost.

A last option mentioned by someone else is to buy a pre-made system on sale. I got a really tiny system on closeout for around $200. It came with a 200GB hard drive and some AM2 AMD chip, can't remember which one it was. I replaced the cpu with a lower power x2 cpu, put in more RAM, and put in the fastest/largest "quiet" hard drive I could find at the time. It won't do 1080p due to the video chipset but especially since I can tuck it behind the tv stand, it makes a very nice and cheap multi-purpose machine in the TV room. I can stream netflix on it, do skype, run my music library, etc. You just need to watch the various online sites that sell closeout computers and wait for the right one to come by.

For $40 or less, a 5450 can get you full bitstreaming 1080p capability. So can the 4xxx series cards but they don't do bitstreaming is the only catch. If you wanted that functionality that is...

 

[flensr]

@SirGCal

The cheapo box I have is a tightly packed Acer SFF, so I don't think I can add a secondary video card. If it is even possible, it would have to be a very very small half height card and cooling might become a problem since it has marginal cooling already. I suppose I'll look into it eventually, but the box doesn't have a BD drive and I'm not sure I can find a reasonably priced slot-load ultra-thin BD drive anyhow, so 720p is going to have to suffice for now.

 

[SirGCal]

@SirGCal

The cheapo box I have is a tightly packed Acer SFF, so I don't think I can add a secondary video card. If it is even possible, it would have to be a very very small half height card and cooling might become a problem since it has marginal cooling already. I suppose I'll look into it eventually, but the box doesn't have a BD drive and I'm not sure I can find a reasonably priced slot-load ultra-thin BD drive anyhow, so 720p is going to have to suffice for now.

Ahh.. Well that would make a difference... There are Laptop-type slot-load BR drives. But they would tend to run up a few bucks. They do make 5450's in the slim card and cooling won't be an issue unless you try to game with it. Encoding won't heat em up.

Still I see and understand your post. It may not be the cheapest option for what you need. Plus you might not have PCI-e slots in your situation anyhow... Still, if you do get the itch; don't count it out before doing a bit of research. As long as you have an AMD 5000+ older-school CPU and at least 2G of DDR2 800 or faster; you have enough core power for all of the live decode items to do the job. Even if you just had to re-case it... But something for the future perhaps. And again, I understand.

My reason for this particular reply is simply to remind you not to count it out if you decide you want more down the road. If the core is enough, it may make sense to upgrade it if/when you do want more vs building all new. Plus if anyone looking on wondered, they know the minimum would-be core necessary for the job.

Have a good one Flensr!

 

[kdubbs]

Really nice suggestions, thanks everyone.

So a couple more things: My current usage plan is fairly limited compared to the possible HTPC applications. For example, I don't need DVR, Skype, or 3D. Even blu-ray is non-essential. So with that in mind, how do I achieve the ideal balance between looks, performance, ease of use and price?

A big question to folks who have used both HTPCs w/ blu-ray drives and dedicated blu-ray players: What is your impression of the reliability of these two solutions? Can you count on your HTPC to play most discs, even if they are Netflix rentals that are less than pristine? What about issues with software or HDMI handshake problems? I hear lots of anecdotal evidence of HTPC blu-ray being problematic. Of course the dedicated players are not without flaws either.

SirGCal, you make a compelling case against SSDs for these types of applications. I just know what a huge difference it has made on my 4 year old C2D desktop and how slow my Macbook Pro at work feels, so I figured SSDs were the way forward. But I suppose if you are doing very little multitasking and infrequent program launches, then a traditional drive is sufficient.

I can't really "hide" this system (though a nice idea, notposting), so buying inexpensive prebuilt systems is probably not for me. Alternatively, I did find this on newegg:

Zotac Zbox-hd w/ Neo X2 and HD3200 graphics $180
2GB Ram: $22
500GB HD: $50
Win7: $61 (deal @ work)

Not bad, but again Brazos-based systems are imminent.

An I'd still need a keyboard. Emulex, you mentioned a $25 lenovo keyboard. All the wireless ones on newegg are at least double that and don't get great ratings. I was previously looking at the IOGear GKM561R, but have also heard people rave about the Rii minikeyboard w/ touchpad ($40 on amazon).

I really wish there was a ~$100 windows media center set-top box. Does anyone know if such a thing is in the works? Then all the money I'd save would go towards a Sandy Bridge-E build later this year.

The geek in me wants to build, but for my circumstances, it seems like the xbox360/dedicated blu-ray player make more sense. Plus, I've heard video games are fun :hmm:.

 

[Brainonska511]

A big question to folks who have used both HTPCs w/ blu-ray drives and dedicated blu-ray players: What is your impression of the reliability of these two solutions? Can you count on your HTPC to play most discs, even if they are Netflix rentals that are less than pristine? What about issues with software or HDMI handshake problems? I hear lots of anecdotal evidence of HTPC blu-ray being problematic. Of course the dedicated players are not without flaws either.

I only have two blu-ray discs at the moment (Toy Story 3 and American History X), but they both played flawlessly on my HTPC. I've got a Lite-On IHOS104 blu-ray drive with the included Cyberlink PowerDVD 8 (OEM edition at the moment, may upgrade if I ever get a external speakers/receiver). Never had any HDMI handshake issues with my HTPC.

I don't know if you'd want to go with an HD3200 and Neo processor. It may not play HD video very well.

As for keeping it from being a sore thumb, just get a nondescript case - nothing flashy and it will be just fine.

I have that IOGear keyboard - it's alright. The trackball can be finicky at times, but it is sufficient. I have a Hauppauge remote that I use with WMC7 though - very nice. Keyboard is good for pulling up web videos and such.

Realistically, you need to figure out what you want to do. If you want Hulu, figure on spending for Hulu Plus if you go the XBox route. It would be free on a PC. There is potentially a lot of video legitimately available on the web that might not be accessible on a set-top box or console.

 

[SirGCal]

The biggest problem with set-top BluRay players is that none of them currently play 100%. Honestly the best set-top box would be the PS3 if that's your goal for just a Blu-Ray setup. However any Blu-Ray capable HTPC is that good or better. You can update your firmwares if necessary, softwares, etc. The ONLY current downside to HTPC BluRay playback is the remote specifics for screen-clicking effect requiring a special navigation tool for BluRay content (all part of PowerDVD). And ofcorse, the software itself.

I used to run all Linux hardware until BluRay won out. There just isn't a good Linux BluRay player out yet.

Still, my HTPC, even with a very old Pioneer BR Drive, has plaied every single BR disk, including hundreds of Netflix (no joke), where even my neighbor's new high-end set-top 3D rig failed to properly read the disk. So honestly, the HTPC is the best option of all for global readability; at least in my experience. PS3 2nd best, followed by firmware upgradable set-top boxes.

I have not had (or heard of actually) any HDMI connectivity issues with properly setup systems. I have half a dozen HTPCs myself and setup a gross more for friends/neighbors. By far the biggest issue any of them ever have is just windows itself doing it's "thing" now and again as well as the occasional PowerDVD bug...

As for the hardware, The HD 3xxx series is actually a bit lacking in BluRay playback capability if that's your goal. It'll do everything else fine. But for BR, you'll really need an HD 4xxx series or stronger for hardware handled playback.

If you want to build a 'tiny' HTPC, it can be done, but tends to cost more than just a uATX rig. Still you can make a uATX setup no larger than most of your items in your home theater rack. It's all about what's important to you.

And yes, as I mentioned before, SSDs can kick serious tail in a desktop environment, even more in laptop... But this particular situation just doesn't benefit from it unless all you do is run a stopwatch to see how fast stuff starts/stops. You won't get any real benefit from it what-so-ever. Especially with PowerDVD. It's initialization system is so slow, the HDD is the least of your problems...

However, even though now you might not want to do all the extra things (blu ray, etc.), you might want to consider it for your build just incase you want to go that way later. With the parts being so cheap at that level, the tiny upgrade now to be capable would be a lot less expensive than replacing the parts with stouter components later on. Just food for thought. If you're never going to use it; then it's a moot point.

However, I'd stay away from the IONs and Atoms... They just aren't quite up to the task of a full HTPC... The new fusion (Brazos) isn't a bad choice but could use a tad more core power for all the HTPC possibilities... Still it's miles ahead of the other two...

 

[Brainonska511]

The ONLY current downside to HTPC BluRay playback is the remote specifics for screen-clicking effect requiring a special navigation tool for BluRay content (all part of PowerDVD). And ofcorse, the software itself.

I had a problem using my Hauppauge remote in PowerDVD with BluRay content until I unchecked the "Enable BD-J Keyboard Support" (Options Menu, Blu-Ray Disc). Then it worked perfectly in controlling menu selections and all other playback controls.

 

[SirGCal]

I had a problem using my Hauppauge remote in PowerDVD with BluRay content until I unchecked the "Enable BD-J Keyboard Support" (Options Menu, Blu-Ray Disc). Then it worked perfectly in controlling menu selections and all other playback controls.

I may not have been clear... Let me try to iterate a bit better...

With DVDs on a computer; simply clicking on the menu parts works for selection. This is not the case with blu-rays though. However simply using the arrow keys and enter keys does work but mouse clicks themselves don't. It's a small thing but... Actual remotes however often use the arrow/enter methods to perform their movements so they actually SHOULD work in most cases... Sorry I wasn't clearer the first time.

 

[Emulex]

maybe that is why the apple tv 2 is selling so badly. they chose flash storage. oh wait. subwoofers destroy hard drives.

will say the Geforce 430 was a waste of money to experience hdmi 1.4 (full suquential 1080p streams with sound pass-through). The old geforce 220 that came with it seemed to have actaully done better. 3D is so overblown

 

[Brainonska511]

subwoofers destroy hard drives

Link to proof.

Edit:
And if that is true, you don't have to put the computer adjacent to the subwoofer. It's not like the sub is using an NMR-strength magnet (which needs some isolation).

And if I remember correctly, a metal computer case acts as a magnetic shield.

 

[kdubbs]

Okay, so I'm definitely having second thoughts about the Xbox 360 as a streaming device, in large part due to SirGCal's rather candid assessment in this earlier thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2128171&highlight=xbox+360+streaming

However, Blu-ray continues to be a concern. The Lite-on OEM drives from newegg are apparently hit-or-miss when it comes to included software. It looks like I'll have to shell out another 50 bucks for PowerDVD just to play Blu-ray discs. Plus, I'm having a hard time finding reviews of legit Blu-ray software. Google returns an absolute mess of Blu-ray ripping software and other sketchy websites peddling Blu-ray-related software. Even sites like Lifehacker and Gizmodo don't seem to have any recent reviews. What do you folks think?

So for now, I'm probably just going to build the HTPC w/o optical drive and just wait until some good deals come along (shell-shocker/microcenter crazy deals) w/ software included.

And finally, has anyone run into a quality ~400W modular power supply? Cable tidyness would be nice, even if I go with the relatively spacious Silverstone GD04B. Closest I"ve seen is a 550W Antec at the egg for $65.

 

[Brainonska511]

However, Blu-ray continues to be a concern. The Lite-on OEM drives from newegg are apparently hit-or-miss when it comes to included software. It looks like I'll have to shell out another 50 bucks for PowerDVD just to play Blu-ray discs

I bought the retail version of the drive for $10 more than the OEM version. Comes with PowerDVD 8. It won't do surround sound, but it plays BD just fine.

Legit stuff:
Cyberlink PowerDVD
Corel WinDVD
Arcsoft Total Media
----

PSU- you don't need more than a 400W PSU. I picked up an Antec EarthWatts 380W - not modular, but the cables weren't too bad, not too much extra and easy enough to shove into a drive bay. Plus, it was only $25AR. I don't know about lower-wattage modular supplies though. I've used OCZ Fatal1ty modular supplies in two builds (550W in mine, 500W in my parents) since I got them fairly cheaply on sale. But I don't know if you'd need or want the extra 100W

 

[SirGCal]

However, Blu-ray continues to be a concern. The Lite-on OEM drives from newegg are apparently hit-or-miss when it comes to included software. It looks like I'll have to shell out another 50 bucks for PowerDVD just to play Blu-ray discs. Plus, I'm having a hard time finding reviews of legit Blu-ray software. Google returns an absolute mess of Blu-ray ripping software and other sketchy websites peddling Blu-ray-related software. Even sites like Lifehacker and Gizmodo don't seem to have any recent reviews. What do you folks think?

Ya, that's the catch. The software. As formentioned, older versions of PDVD work just fine unless you want to bitstream. PDVD 10 is probably the best single option out there but it's stupid expensive with a lot of features we don't need. We're all waiting for sly-player. ATM is popular but I personally don't care for it quite so much. Even MPC-HC version (free) will play blu-rays also. Has issues with some particular movies and tends to use a little bit more CPU. I use it for all of my other video watching though and some BluRays no systems without PDVD on them.

What we really need is a good linux bluray software option... Ugg... ANyhow, for HTPCs, most of mine have a 350W PS or smaller unless they are serving double-duty. Even one with a dedicated 5670 video card. It's all you need. More won't hurt but don't spend a ton on a power house you won't ever need. I go for quality over quantity (quality build over a few more Watts in this case), if all else is equal. Most computer glitches and failures can be attributed in some form to power. Dirty, out of spec, etc. Having a quality and reliable power supply is a staple back-bone of a solid computer. That said, even I have plenty of HTPCs with otherwise junk 350W units that work without a problem.

 

[Dug]

I have to disagree with people saying ssd doesn't make a difference. If you have a large collection of dvd's and blu-ray's on a regular hard drive, but put the file info on the ssd, it makes a huge difference when bringing up cover art, thumbnails, media info, etc.

 

[SirGCal]

I have to disagree with people saying ssd doesn't make a difference. If you have a large collection of dvd's and blu-ray's on a regular hard drive, but put the file info on the ssd, it makes a huge difference when bringing up cover art, thumbnails, media info, etc.

Uhh.. so what? For ~$200 your SSD might be able to keep 2 or 3 BR ISOs on a 120G drive since they are between 18 to 40+ Gig each?!?... It's not going to be a storage drive. Only a completely loaded (rich) moron would even consider that. So to get the cover art, you'd have to first find the file from the conventional HDD, then copy it over to the SSD...

Besides, for roughly the grand you'd spend on a huge SSD, you can build an extremely fast RAID setup. My 8-drive setup for example is double-redundant RAID 6, 12TB usable setup, with over 700M/sec sustained reads... More than fast enough to make those thumbnails, cover-arts, etc. basically instant. Not to mention capable of storing gobs more information, far more useful for a media environment.

It's all about where the $ is the most effective. Even with just one drive; waiting 1-3 seconds for a return from hibernation or to cache a directories thumbnails, I'd rather spend $70 on a 2TB drive (or far less (~$30-40) for non-storage HTPC OS drives) then twice to five times that or more for just the most basic OS only SSD. Heck, with microshaft taking up so much freakin room anymore (by far the fattest raw OS installed of any flavor), I couldn't even keep my tiny MP3 collection on even a 64G boot OS SSD. Not to mention my flac'ed listing which is considerably more room.

Simply put, there's no real reason to justify the extreme expense of an SSD in a media-box application such as an HTPC. There is no tangible, real benefit. And I even do have an SSD in one of my HTPCs at the moment... Only because I'm experimenting this week with some different software setups and don't want to trash the actual drive so I imaged it on to the SSD temporarily. It's a spare SSD I had laying around with no other use at the moment. And I can assure you, streaming files from my fileserver, BluRays, DVDs, Music, Web surfing, etc. there is no tangible difference what-so-ever.