htpc questions I3-530/X2 240

[Piccoro]

If you guys could give me some ideas. Maybe what would you do with this hardware or what parts would you buy that would be awesome.

I would like to build a desktop and upgrade an HTPC. I'm thinking I could do one now and one later (year+ w/CPU+GPU single chip) OR both now. So I'd like some opinions what's out now that would be good or if CPU/GPU stuff in the future would be good waiting for.

I currently do have a A64 3000+ (754)+mini ninja, 1GB single channel DDR 333 as an HTPC w/4350 card that has HDMI out. Antec fusion case. Gigiabit LAN.
Would like to add a blu-ray drive (PS3 idles @ 120w).
The PC does not play most 720p flash smoothly or any 1080p (hulu/abc/youtube). I've tried Flash beta w/GPU acceleration as well (currently installed).
55w idle
similar when playing video off the HDD
90w on boot

I also would like to just have a basic desktop PC that doesn't consume much power. I have a quad but I'd rather that it was not on all the time @ 140w idle (the wife seems to leave it on after she is done surfing the net). I do some gaming and encoding on the quad. I do have spare 17" monitors.
I have looked at a lot of h55 boards w/i3+IGP and seen people get to 30w idle power easily. With picoPSU, laptop hdd etc. Not as familiar on the AMD side of things.

Ideas
1)Could leave the A64 3000+ as the HTPC. Try blu-ray drive out and try to live without HD flash. (no cable tv) Put new system as desktop. If blu-ray drive doesn't work out I could go to option 2. Or I could go netflix and keep the A64 as the HTPC.

2)I could put the A64 3000+ as the desktop and buy an i3 or AMD for HTPC. In a year+ I could switch the HTPC parts to the desktop retiring the A64 and buy a CPU/GPU on 1 chip for HTPC.

3)I could buy 2 AMD systems now, 1 desktop, 1 HTPC. But which AMD boards support 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM output? Just use the 4350 card? My receiver can do LPCM but not TrueHD/DTS MA bit streaming. I know 880G is not much of a change in features from the 785G but does it use less power since it is only AM3/DDR3 interface? Have not really seen a review yet.

MicroATX preferred.

 

[busydude]

3)I could buy 2 AMD systems now, 1 desktop, 1 HTPC. But which AMD boards support 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM output? Just use the 4350 card? My receiver can do LPCM but not TrueHD/DTS MA bit streaming. I know 880G is not much of a change in features from the 785G but does it use less power since it is only AM3/DDR3 interface? Have not really seen a review yet.

880G supports only 2 channel LPCM, similar to 785G. There is no substantial change in power consumption either. The best option I can suggest is for you to invest in a nice sound card.

There isn't much difference in power consumption between Intel and AMD
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2921

 

[Piccoro]

I've seen reviews that show Intel quite a bit under AMD for idle and cpu load. But it is hard to compare different numbers since different AMD chipsets are used and different boards etc. Like the gigabyte board in that anandtech review is not as power friendly as Intel or MSI H55 boards. (bottom of the page)
Intel H55 shown here goes much lower than a Gigabyte 785G system.

And just want to confirm, ATI 4350 can do uncompressed audio from blu-ray over HDMI?
If the 4350 can do LPCM and a 785g/880g chipset cannot then I don't see a reason to buy a new AMD (right now). Maybe go i3 as HTPC and move the A64 to desktop as the i3 can do uncompressed 5.1.

 

[busydude]

And just want to confirm, ATI 4350 can do uncompressed audio from blu-ray over HDMI?

Yes it does stream over HDMI. Sorry for not being clear in my previous post.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2622

 

[heyheybooboo]

I think articles like the THG -- on idle power consumption -- do a great disservice (along with everyone else who whips out the ol' power meter).

It's nice to compare power numbers and the like when playing back media and surfing around but in the big scheme of things it means nothing.

Seldom will folks take the time to properly set up power management features to adequately reflect the 'real world'. They won't examine WOL/PME events, and measure 'sleep' settings.

And LOL @ the Tom's article --- Your computer should never 'operate' at idle. For the most part when playing and recording HD you are going to pull 50w-60w, whether you are using an AMD or Intel chip.

And in my case, my 785g does not 'idle' for more than 2 minutes before going to sleep at 3w.

That makes up for my modem and router --- which pull 27w fulltime




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[Terzo]

And LOL @ the Tom's article --- Your computer should never 'operate' at idle. For the most part when playing and recording HD you are going to pull 50w-60w, whether you are using an AMD or Intel chip.
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Wait, what? Are you saying never should be idle regarding a htpc, or in general? I can't imagine that simple web browsing takes a ton of processing power, and (sadly) that's a large chunk of my computer usage.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Wait, what? Are you saying never should be idle regarding a htpc, or in general? I can't imagine that simple web browsing takes a ton of processing power, and (sadly) that's a large chunk of my computer usage.

Sorry ... I didn't make myself very clear.

You are very much correct if you are simply browsing - cpu utilization will be minimal with C&Q/Speedstep throttling the processor.

Even when surfing I've got other stuff going on (though even if I've got an HD capture going on in the background C&Q is still kicked in).

The OP noted that he would like to leave the rig on all the time (lots of folks like this convenience) and didn't want to be sucking down the watts; also noting the 'Boss' tended to leave the computer on, anyway.

He could easily put it to sleep after 5 minutes of inactivity and drop power to less than 5w.

And quickly wake the system from its slumber when he wanted to check something out.




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[Piccoro]

So would an AMD X2 240, microATX w/IGP, 2x2GB DDR3, laptop HDD easily work under a picoPSU (150-XT)?
A lot of people have done this with the i3 I know.

Any recommendations on a low power AM3 board w/DDR3? Don't need features like firewire, PATA etc.
Just DVI, HDMI, SATA 3GB/s (don't want extra chips on board powering features I won't use if possible).

thanks for the replies by the way, very helpful.

 

[busydude]

Any recommendations on a low power AM3 board w/DDR3? Don't need features like firewire, PATA etc. Just DVI, HDMI, SATA 3GB/s (don't want extra chips on board powering features I won't use if possible).

A 785G chipset should be adequate for your needs. It should work with that PSU.

Gigabyte 785G - $90

 

[s44]

You can't do AM3, IGP, and Blu-Ray audio... There are some Nvidia 8200 AM2+ boards that might work, but I think they have legacy connectors. Otherwise, you should probably go i3.

ah, here you go -- Zotac and Jetway have AM2+ mini-ITX boards with the 8200 and no PATA, though HDMI on the latter seems to be funky.

 

[busydude]

You can't do AM3, IGP, and Blu-Ray audio... There are some Nvidia 8200 AM2+ boards that might work, but I think they have legacy connectors. Otherwise, you should probably go i3. ah, here you go -- Zotac and Jetway have AM2+ mini-ITX boards with the 8200 and no PATA, though HDMI on the latter seems to be funky.

Doh, I completely overlooked that point.
Yes, AMD chipsets currently support only 2 channel LPCM. Your 4350 supports 8 channel LPCM.

Core i3+H55 supports 8 channel LPCM through HDMI.

 

[Piccoro]

Do you think that gigabyte board is pretty low power? I'll probably do some searches tonight. Have not really had spare time recently. Also some AM3 boards are similar price as the H55 boards ($80-100). So the only cost difference is CPU but Intel has higher performance, lower idle power/CPU load and HD audio included. D:
If I can't find anything on AMD then that would be the config.

I'm sort of looking for AMD board comparison like this where it shows idle/load power. I've seen 785G reviews of course. Maybe I'll have to wait for 880G reviews concerning power minus AM2 circuitry (i know features are similar).

 

[Piccoro]

How is The MSI 785G E51?

Seems to have low power consumption.
Is it possible to make a guess on power consumption (X2 240/ MSI 785g) by comparing these articles?
E65 seems a tad better (5w) than the ECS 2 idle. The E51 in the link above does 10w better than the same ECS board.
This shows a E65 with laptop drive etc but with an X3 cpu.
This shows X3 and X2 cpus.
Or this.

 

[heyheybooboo]

The thing is .... unless you get lucky on your 'comparisons' it will be difficult to find the real hardcore info to make an 'apples-to-apples' decision (because of the gazillions of options that folks don't test for).

Even when you see 'idle' numbers, unless you account for a possible under-volt your comparison goes to sheet.

Silent PC does a good job of offering under-clocking and under-volting comparisons BUT in your link they included a mobo with 8+2 PWMs (and use a Phenom 720BE!) in comparison to one with 4+1

Anyway ... Even though you you are considering using your 4350 to pass digital 8 channel LPCM it would not be necessary to pass analog multi-channel PCM. And for the most part we are talking 5+1, anyway (and your receiver doesn't do TrueHD ---- yet )

I can't tell the difference between analog/digital anyway, and unless I'm further educated TrueHD/DTS MA at 24 bit/192kHz is still light-years away (right now 16 bit/48kHz is still essentially the standard, 24/48 is looking up, 24/96 is pitiful and 24/192 is LOL).

Lookee Here

For the most part you are looking at 50w-60w and with a little under-volting you will be good to go.

Here is an OTA capture and recording with an under-volt (less than 1v with C&Q enabled), 960MHz with 55% CPU utilization (with an OC at 240MHz):

Don't sweat it .... it's all dandy - LOL




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[Piccoro]

Sounds good. Thanks for the help. Now I just gotta put the order in.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Asus M4A785TD-M EVO / AthlonII combos are good through the end of the month.

With the Regor 245: $125

There are 45w "e" versions of Regor but good luck finding one. With an under-volt to a conventional processor I would guess the end results would be roughly similar.

Don't forget to experiment with your OS power options and sleep/hibernation ---- and don't forget to tell the little woman all she needs to do is hit the spacebar to wake the computer - LOL




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[Piccoro]

I'll check out that board tonight. thanks
She is used to hitting the power button (hibernation or off/on. same thing to her) so hitting the space bar will take getting used to.

I could get a 240e for $88.
compared

 

[busydude]

I could get a 240e for $88. compared

Go for it!. But keep in mind that AMD chipsets do not stream 8 channel LPCM, they only stream 2 channel LPCM over HDMI.