HTPC versus Home PC

[blackrain]

I have enough components accumulated over the last year that I am ready to build both a new Home Office PC and a new Game PC/HTPC (1080p via projector onto a 120 inch screen).

I am thinking that I should go with the stronger components for the HTPC/Game PC, but I keep second guessing myself. Here is what I have (no substitution recommendations please...these were cheap....except that maybe I really need 16GB memory for both)

i5 3570k versus i7 4770k
Corsair Vengeance 16Gb vs Ripjaws 8GB
MSI Z87-G45 vs Asus P8Z77-V Pro
Powercolor 7870 (Myst) vs Radeon 7850
Fractal R4 versus Thermaltake Soprano (White)
Samsung Pro 256GB SSD vs Crucial MX 512GB
Windows 7 x64 Ultimate versus Windows 7 x32 Home

HTPC use:
(1) PC Games (Battlefield, Call of Duty)
(2) mkv movie backups

Office use:
(1) Internet
(2) MS Office
(3) TV Tuner and/or possible 2 display setup
(3) ***multitasking (here's where I am really stuck....users tend to leave lots of apps running, e.g., music, movies, tv tuner, 20+ google chrome tabs, documents, etc)


While Office use typically doesn't require a lot, the multi-tasking/failure to close apps makes me wonder if I need more memory, etc By contrast, I don't multi-task a lot on the HTPC, but I want it to be ready for the most in PC games.

 

[mfenn]

Well, if you want to use more than 8GB of RAM, you'll need to have 64-bit Windows in both systems. You should be able to use your 32-bit Home Premium key with 64-bit Home Premium media though.

The two editions are pretty much equal for your uses, but I put the ultimate on the office PC because you might want to use Remote Desktop to get into it from the TV. If you think you're more likely to want to RDP the other way around, switch up the editions.

As for the rest:

Gaming:
i7 4770K
8GB RAM
Z87
7870
R4
MX100 512GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Office:
i5 3570K
16GB RAM
Z77
7850
Soprano
Samsung 256GB
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

 

[Automaticman]

Hmm, another option you might consider is simply using integrated graphics on the office PC and crossfire the 7850 and 7870 on the gaming PC.

Integrated gpu will be fine with two monitors as long as you aren't doing any gaming or other GPU intensive tasks.

 

[blackrain]

Well, if you want to use more than 8GB of RAM, you'll need to have 64-bit Windows in both systems. You should be able to use your 32-bit Home Premium key with 64-bit Home Premium media though.

The two editions are pretty much equal for your uses, but I put the ultimate on the office PC because you might want to use Remote Desktop to get into it from the TV. If you think you're more likely to want to RDP the other way around, switch up the editions.

As for the rest:

Gaming:
i7 4770K
8GB RAM
Z87
7870
R4
MX100 512GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Office:
i5 3570K
16GB RAM
Z77
7850
Soprano
Samsung 256GB
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Thanks for this. I think it makes sense. Just curious as to why you picked the i7 for the gaming PC (not that I disagree)? Was it b/c of the compatible gaming mobo?

Also, I understand the concept of remote desktop but have never used it. I agree that it makes more sense for an office PC so I will be going with the 16Gb and the 64 bit win7 ultimate for the office PC. But I don't understand what you mean by "you might want to use Remote Desktop to get into it from the TV". Get into my Office PC from a TV? Isn't RDP access only from computer to computer?

 

[Charlie98]

Thanks for this. I think it makes sense. Just curious as to why you picked the i7 for the gaming PC (not that I disagree)?

Not to second guess mfenn... but probably because an i7 in a GP desktop is a waste, might as well as put it in the gamer rig. If you ever encode video, you will appreciate the i7. It's also the newer chip/chipset.

 

[blackrain]

One other thing. I will probably build the Office PC first. I am currently using the key for the win 7 x64 ultimate on my current HTPC. Will they (new Office build and old HTPC build with same O/S key) be able to coexist at all until I "discontinue/replace" my HTPC O/S? Or will my HTPC be down for a while as a result? May have to build the HTPC first

 

[blackrain]

Not to second guess mfenn... but probably because an i7 in a GP desktop is a waste, might as well as put it in the gamer rig. If you ever encode video, you will appreciate the i7. It's also the newer chip/chipset.

The 512GB drive on the game/HTPC + the i7 encoding capability would make a good match for encoding mkv backups. So it probably makes sense so long as I can do that encoding overnight (not running into entertainment time in the awake hours)

 

[Automaticman]

The 512GB drive on the game/HTPC + the i7 encoding capability would make a good match for encoding mkv backups. So it probably makes sense so long as I can do that encoding overnight (not running into entertainment time in the awake hours)

yeah you definitely want the more powerful CPU on the rig doing video encoding. One of the few applications that will use every last drop of CPU power available. I would also hope you would be adding storage drives to the HTPC for media, and probably use those drives fro ripping as well. Ripping on the SSD seems like an awful lot of read/write cycles.

The larger SSD on the HTPC would allow you to install more games on the faster SSD which is why that's a better home for it. For the Office PC, a 256 GB SSD is more than enough to install every office type program you might need with lots of room to spare.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for this. I think it makes sense. Just curious as to why you picked the i7 for the gaming PC (not that I disagree)? Was it b/c of the compatible gaming mobo?

I put it in the HTPC because you mentioned making MKVs on the HTPC. If you are just putting the movies into an MKV container, it is perhaps not useful, but it would be very useful if you decide to re-encode them to make the file size smaller.

Also, I understand the concept of remote desktop but have never used it. I agree that it makes more sense for an office PC so I will be going with the 16Gb and the 64 bit win7 ultimate for the office PC. But I don't understand what you mean by "you might want to use Remote Desktop to get into it from the TV". Get into my Office PC from a TV? Isn't RDP access only from computer to computer?

Windows Home Premium doesn't have the Remote Desktop server component, so you'll have to install Ultimate onto whichever PC you want to use Remote Desktop to get into. By "from the TV" I meant from the computer hooked up to the TV (i.e. the HTPC). If you think you're more likely to RDP in the other direction (office to htpc), then that's fine too, just flip the OS editions around.

 

[mfenn]

One other thing. I will probably build the Office PC first. I am currently using the key for the win 7 x64 ultimate on my current HTPC. Will they (new Office build and old HTPC build with same O/S key) be able to coexist at all until I "discontinue/replace" my HTPC O/S? Or will my HTPC be down for a while as a result? May have to build the HTPC first

Legally you can only use it on one machine at a time. I think that MS will eventually deactivate one of the installs if they detect the key being used in more than one place.

 

[blackrain]

Not to second guess mfenn... but probably because an i7 in a GP desktop is a waste, might as well as put it in the gamer rig. If you ever encode video, you will appreciate the i7. It's also the newer chip/chipset.

Just another thought. Doesn't video encoding also benefit from 16GB memory over 8GB memory? At least that is what I am seeing from some google searches. It seems that I would want to align the i7 and the 16GB memory together on the same system that would be used for video encoding.

While I play mkv's on my HTPC, I don't necessarily need to encode them on the HTPC.

So, I wonder if I should swap the i7 and the i5 so the setups look like this:

Gaming:
i5 3570K
8GB RAM
Z87
7870
R4
MX100 512GB
Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit

Office:
i7 4770K
16GB RAM
Z77
7850
Soprano
Samsung 256GB
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

 

[blackrain]

I put it in the HTPC because you mentioned making MKVs on the HTPC. If you are just putting the movies into an MKV container, it is perhaps not useful, but it would be very useful if you decide to re-encode them to make the file size smaller.



Windows Home Premium doesn't have the Remote Desktop server component, so you'll have to install Ultimate onto whichever PC you want to use Remote Desktop to get into. By "from the TV" I meant from the computer hooked up to the TV (i.e. the HTPC). If you think you're more likely to RDP in the other direction (office to htpc), then that's fine too, just flip the OS editions around.

See my last comment. I wonder if I should keep the 16GB memory and the i7 together since these seem to be both targeted to video encoding (which is certainly something I want).

 

[Automaticman]

I highly recommend you put the i7 in the gaming machine, esp if you are playing games like BF4 that love hyperthreading.

Having 16Gb on the office machine will help since you specifically said you heavily multitask on that box. I don't think you are going to see a huge difference in terms of media ripping from 8-16GB, but you can always add in more ram later to the gaming machine if you really think you need it.

 

[blackrain]

I highly recommend you put the i7 in the gaming machine, esp if you are playing games like BF4 that love hyperthreading.

Having 16Gb on the office machine will help since you specifically said you heavily multitask on that box. I don't think you are going to see a huge difference in terms of media ripping from 8-16GB, but you can always add in more ram later to the gaming machine if you really think you need it.

I don't think I want to add memory later. I would need to also upgrade to x64 later as well if I was going to move up to 16GB, and I don't want to deal with that again. In any case, it seems like I am coming back to my original post. 16GB memory for multi-tasking or for encoding/gaming? It sounds like the multi-tasking will benefit much more than the video encoding?

 

[smitbret]

Just another thought. Doesn't video encoding also benefit from 16GB memory over 8GB memory?

No

 

[Cerb]

No

More specifically, you can tweak some programs to cache more in RAM, but the returns will become diminishing, to the point of near-0, after several hundred MBs, so it's usually not worth it for more or less legal transcoding (in that you and the ODD are going to be more of a bottleneck, anyway).

If you're batch encoding, rather than real-time, any 4C Intel or 4M AMD will be really fast. Pay for more cores or HT if your encoding time means losing money, or if you're trying to get good quality in real time with CPU-based transcoding.

An i7 isn't worth paying more over a similar i5, usually but if you have one, it's going to be a better CPU for interactive use, gaming included.

 

[blackrain]

Sounds like I really don't need the 16GB of memory for gaming and encoding. And I think I would make life easier on myself if I installed x64 on both systems (as so wisely proposed by mfenn above). That way, I could switch the 16GB and 8GB later (or upgrade from 8GB to 16GB later) and not have to worry about the whole issue of reinstalling the O/S later.

I guess this is a little off-topic, but what is the approximate value of an unused x64 key these days (minus the media)? And should I avoid keys that have already been used?

I have the original windows 7 x64 ultimate disc.

 

[Charlie98]

In my experience, I use less than 1GB RAM while encoding on my i5... more than 8GB is just not necessary.

I agree upgrading to 64-bit is the way to go.

And should I avoid keys that have already been used?

In what respect? Keys that you have used, or buying a used key? Both of those technically violate the EULA, I believe, unless you are transferring YOUR used key to YOUR new machine. Otherwise, just buy a new key from a reputable source.

 

[Cerb]

Sounds like I really don't need the 16GB of memory for gaming and encoding. And I think I would make life easier on myself if I installed x64 on both systems (as so wisely proposed by mfenn above).

2GB is a good point to start using x86-64. On 2GB systems, paging due to virtual memory issues can and do happen more often, IME, on IA32 than on x86-64, causing slow-downs that 64-bit Windows magically seems to not have. 32-bit is only a good thing for modern PCs if you must use ancient programs that use real-mode addressing.

I guess this is a little off-topic, but what is the approximate value of an unused x64 key these days (minus the media)? And should I avoid keys that have already been used?

N/A. Physical media can be 32-bit only or 64-bit only, but the keys are not tied to bit depth, at least from Vista forward. Grab 64-bit media, and the key you got with 32-bit media will work fine, so long as it's not OEM and already used on another motherboard.

Oh, and price checks are not allowed.

 

[Charlie98]

N/A. Physical media can be 32-bit only or 64-bit only, but the keys are not tied to bit depth, at least from Vista forward. Grab 64-bit media, and the key you got with 32-bit media will work fine, so long as it's not OEM and already used on another motherboard.

Oh, and price checks are not allowed.

Didn't know that... cool!

 

[mfenn]

More specifically, you can tweak some programs to cache more in RAM, but the returns will become diminishing, to the point of near-0, after several hundred MBs, so it's usually not worth it for more or less legal transcoding (in that you and the ODD are going to be more of a bottleneck, anyway).

If you're batch encoding, rather than real-time, any 4C Intel or 4M AMD will be really fast. Pay for more cores or HT if your encoding time means losing money, or if you're trying to get good quality in real time with CPU-based transcoding.

An i7 isn't worth paying more over a similar i5, usually but if you have one, it's going to be a better CPU for interactive use, gaming included.

Absolutely correct.

N/A. Physical media can be 32-bit only or 64-bit only, but the keys are not tied to bit depth, at least from Vista forward. Grab 64-bit media, and the key you got with 32-bit media will work fine, so long as it's not OEM and already used on another motherboard.

Yep. You can download Windows 7 SP1 MR media from here.

Oh, and price checks are not allowed.

Also yep. That's a moderator bold yep.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator