HuffPo - Black Farmer Calls Out Liberal Racism In Powerful Facebook Message

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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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I already agreed that wrongs should be made right. You do too. Can we agree to move beyond the "Let's not pretend you give a shit about fairness or any other virtue."? That was an asshole comment and you know it.

OK Good. If someone was wronged then they should be made whole. A civil lawsuit should be sufficient. If something was so wrong that we can pass an entire law to fuck people based on skin color, then a lawsuit should be trivial, no?



And here we go. Should the son be found guilty of the sins of his father? Should the children of the father who was sinned against receive atonement? I don't actually know the answer. This is a HARD question.

If you somehow end up with stolen merchandise, it still gets returned back to the rightful owner no matter how you attained it, and you are left with a claim against the thief/parents who sold/gave it to you. Similar, we can begin by settling at least the land/salary issue and let the chips fall where they may.

As mentioned in the linked thread, we allowed the perps to get away with it and there's arguably some rectification for that error.

Duuuude!!! Who is arguing against punishing participants in systemic bigotry today? Not me! There is systemic bigotry in policing, drug laws, the court system, the """"correctional"""" system, and far more. We gotta fix that shit. Giving someone a job because of their race doesn't fix any of that. It perpetuates that.

Oh good, you can join in punishing OP & peers instead of agreeing with them about AA & such.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
If you somehow end up with stolen merchandise, it still gets returned back to the rightful owner no matter how you attained it, and you are left with a claim against the thief/parents who sold/gave it to you. Similar, we can begin by settling at least the land/salary issue and let the chips fall where they may.

As mentioned in the linked thread, we allowed the perps to get away with it and there's arguably some rectification for that error.

This is all true. All of it. I completely agree with you. The question is where does it end? There is not a single human being on Earth who does not live on land that was not stolen from another human being through conquest, theft, fraud, or otherwise. How far back do we trace the theft? How far back are descendants liable? Technically land I live on might have at one point belonged to a particular tribe of Native Americans. So we should give that land to them. But they conquered that land from another band of Native Americans, who won it from another who won it from another. Who gets it?

If you find out that 12 generations ago, your forefathers stole some shit, should you lose everything you own? Your retirement? Your childrens' college funds? Your house? Your freedom? Go to jail because of that asshole?

These are all very valid and very difficult questions.

Oh good, you can join in punishing OP & peers

What are the crimes of OP and peers? If they committed crimes then why are they not already in jail? I'm all for jailing criminals who have hurt people. Can you explain to me what crimes OP has committed and what is the appropriate punishment?

instead of agreeing with them about AA & such.

I have outlined my disagreements with AA and you have already agreed with me that it is a sub optimal solution. By the way: this means you also agree with OP and peers. How does this make you feel?
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Oh good, you can join in punishing OP & peers instead of agreeing with them about AA & such.

You call those pathetic ad hom attacks from you and your sidekicks punish? LOL.

Can't debate with facts and logic, pull the race card and ad hom attack.

No matter what you and your pathetic buddies do, I am still here, and do this to you, over and over and over again and NOTHING you can do about except whine, bitch, and troll - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/high-chance-of-china-taiwan-war.2499383/#post-38743019

Still nothing about support whites when they were the victims? Yup, nothing. Just like you.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
What are the crimes of OP and peers? If they committed crimes then why are they not already in jail? I'm all for jailing criminals who have hurt people. Can you explain to me what crimes OP has committed and what is the appropriate punishment?

agent fail troll is a pathetic troll. He is still mad at me because I shamed and humiliated him so many times in public with facts (see the link from the post right above) so he would do whatever to silence my voice. Ad hom personal attacks, trolling, lying, and on and on. If you can scroll back from the very first post of this thread, you did not see me say anything nasty to anyone in the op but his reply to you was such an asshole way and you can see decent posters such as Vic, Comodous, and a few others were trying to debate the topic of the thread while agent fail troll and his loser buddies pulled ad hom attacks and trolled.

Just ask other posters such as SNC, glracer, and much more about how agent fail troll made empty accusations about them and then when they asked for evidence, the troll would fold because he has nothing to back up his accusations.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
This is all true. All of it. I completely agree with you. The question is where does it end? There is not a single human being on Earth who does not live on land that was not stolen from another human being through conquest, theft, fraud, or otherwise. How far back do we trace the theft? How far back are descendants liable? Technically land I live on might have at one point belonged to a particular tribe of Native Americans. So we should give that land to them. But they conquered that land from another band of Native Americans, who won it from another who won it from another. Who gets it?

If you find out that 12 generations ago, your forefathers stole some shit, should you lose everything you own? Your retirement? Your childrens' college funds? Your house? Your freedom? Go to jail because of that asshole?

These are all very valid and very difficult questions.

That's how we ended up with relatively cheap reparations like AA, which you & OP sorts still don't like.

What are the crimes of OP and peers? If they committed crimes then why are they not already in jail? I'm all for jailing criminals who have hurt people. Can you explain to me what crimes OP has committed and what is the appropriate punishment?

We don't criminally punish racists for the same reason that we don't enforce actually reparations.

I have outlined my disagreements with AA and you have already agreed with me that it is a sub optimal solution. By the way: this means you also agree with OP and peers. How does this make you feel?

Seems obvious OP and peers are much closer to your position than mine, even if you can really relate by never admitting these most basic realities.

You call those pathetic ad hom attacks from you and your sidekicks punish? LOL.

Can't debate with facts and logic, pull the race card and ad hom attack.

No matter what you and your pathetic buddies do, I am still here, and do this to you, over and over and over again and NOTHING you can do about except whine, bitch, and troll - http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/high-chance-of-china-taiwan-war.2499383/#post-38743019

Still nothing about support whites when they were the victims? Yup, nothing. Just like you.

I'm sure you love being seen as a stereotypical conservative racist not even your peers want anything to do with.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
agent fail troll is a pathetic troll. He is still mad at me because I shamed and humiliated him so many times in public with facts (see the link from the post right above) so he would do whatever to silence my voice. Ad hom personal attacks, trolling, lying, and on and on. If you can scroll back from the very first post of this thread, you can see decent posters such as Vic, Comodous, and a few others were trying to debate the topic of the thread while agent fail troll and his loser buddies pulled ad hom attacks and trolled.

Just ask other posters such as SNC, glracer, and much more about how agent fail troll made empty accusations about them and then when they asked for evidence, the troll would fold because he has nothing to back up his accusations.

This is a pretty good illustration of the delusions of grandeur typical low edu/iq trash suffer. That's the same reason why racism appeals to them so much.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
That's how we ended up with relatively cheap reparations like AA, which you & OP sorts still don't like.

Answer the question. Do it. What sins are you liable for? What wealth are you willing to give up? If the argument could be made that but for your 12th generation ancestor conquering a land he did not own, you would not be alive, would you personally volunteer to die? Of course not. Nobody expects you to. What is the solution? Bullshit AA? Fuck someone over because of melanin?

We don't criminally punish racists for the same reason that we don't enforce actually reparations.

Just a weird, weird comment. Please expand on this.

Seems obvious OP and peers are much closer to your position than mine, even if you can really relate by never admitting these most basic realities.

OP, you, and I all agree that AA is not the best solution. Don't focus too much on how bad that makes you feel to agree with someone you hate. A better course of action would be to focus on how to solve a problem that the three of us all agree needs a solution. So what's the solution? Are you prepared to surrender your life, family, wealth, possessions, etc... to the ancestor of the longest lineage claim to your everything?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Answer the question. Do it. What sins are you liable for? What wealth are you willing to give up? If the argument could be made that but for your 12th generation ancestor conquering a land he did not own, you would not be alive, would you personally volunteer to die? Of course not. Nobody expects you to. What is the solution? Bullshit AA? Fuck someone over because of melanin?

Just because you can't understand the answer, "let the chips fall where they may", doesn't mean one wasn't given. It also helps to read the thread linked, and in general do the minimal amount of thinking to grasp that AA is literally the least expensive form of justice as mentioned numerous times. Acting too stupid to understand anything doesn't relieve you of being wrong, as you might see it doesn't work for svnla either.

Just a weird, weird comment. Please expand on this.

The racists have enough political power to elect a president. That's why I wish you the best of luck convincing them to accept any responsibility, much less punishment. An opportunity presents itself right in front of you.

OP, you, and I all agree that AA is not the best solution. Don't focus too much on how bad that makes you feel to agree with someone you hate. A better course of action would be to focus on how to solve a problem that the three of us all agree needs a solution. So what's the solution? Are you prepared to surrender your life, family, wealth, possessions, etc... to the ancestor of the longest lineage claim to your everything?

It can't be more obvious that different parties think AA is subpar for differing reasons, even if you'll go to your grave pretending to be too dumb to discern between them.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Take any major liberal city. Any.

Seattle. LA. Chicago. New York. San Francisco, etc...

Just think about those cities for 5 minutes. They are hands-down the most segregated cities in the United States.

I find it laughable that this is news for people here....

Would like to see some statistics from a reliable source because I can think of many southern cities that would easily be contenders.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
There's one important distinction, Svnla: liberals aren't the ones trying to enshrine racism in government policy.

Of course they are. They already have. What do you suppose affirmative action is?

The left is generally fine with racism as long as the right people benefit and the wrong people don't.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Of course they are. They already have. What do you suppose affirmative action is?

The left is generally fine with racism as long as the right people benefit and the wrong people don't.

Oh, here we go... anything that doesn't keep white people on top of the pedestal is racism. No, it can't be about giving minorities an opportunity that they'd otherwise be unfairly denied, it's about persecuting white people.

I'm reminded of how companies try to squash pro-competition regulation in the name of the free market. In both cases, it's based on a big lie: that theoretical freedom is more important than real freedom, that any unfair dominance will just magically sort itself out. Well, that's not how life works. Companies with monopolies will often do whatever they can to stifle competition if left unchecked; companies and institutions that almost always hire white people will rarely look at anyone else, even if they're not explicitly against those groups. There is a limit to how far government can and should go to tweak things, but doing nothing is usually the best way to maintain an oppressive status quo.

And on top of that, I want to ask: do you support the modern Republicans? After all, they enact laws designed explicitly to disenfranchise minorities. If affirmative action is racism, then intentionally making it difficult for black people to vote is tantamount to leading a Klan parade.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Take any major liberal city. Any.

Seattle. LA. Chicago. New York. San Francisco, etc...

Just think about those cities for 5 minutes. They are hands-down the most segregated cities in the United States.

I find it laughable that this is news for people here....
I don't know of any city or town in America doesn't have this problem. Its roots lie in the once common but now illegal real estate practice of redlining.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Oh, here we go... anything that doesn't keep white people on top of the pedestal is racism. No, it can't be about giving people an opportunity that they'd otherwise be unfairly denied, it's about persecuting white people.

It involves prejudging people based on their skin color. I don't know a better definition of racism.

I want to ask: do you support the modern Republicans? After all, they enact laws designed explicitly to disenfranchise minorities. If affirmative action is racism, then intentionally making it difficult for black people to vote is tantamount to leading a Klan parade.

How do modern Republicans explicitly attempt to disenfranchise minorities?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
How do modern Republicans explicitly attempt to disenfranchise minorities?
It's not just minorities anymore. Modern Republicans are trying to disenfranchise everyone who doesn't vote Republican. Through gerrymandering, onerous voter ID requirements, and intimidation.
 

xthetenth

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2014
1,800
529
106
It involves prejudging people based on their skin color. I don't know a better definition of racism.

The system produces results that are explicitly racist. It's judging the system, not the people.

If I said that of two people doing an obstacle course the one who gets held down and punched in the nuts for a minute and doesn't get to wear shoes is less likely to perform to their maximum potential, that wouldn't be a contentious assertion, right? Similarly a person who is more likely to start in poverty because their parents weren't able to build wealth due to explicitly racist policy, whose grandparents had property stolen from them instead of being able to appreciate in value and who goes to an underfunded school would be expected to under perform compared to their potential, right?

This is what AA is meant to address. Either there is something so profoundly wrong with black people that the labor they have put in up till now during the lifespan of the country is worth literally one seventh that of whites, that their labor in Seattle (for example, I know the statistic off the top of my head) is worth literally half that of whites (which is the implicit assumption behind affirmative action being racist, since it assumes that what it addresses is based on the race of the people rather than the racist history inflicted on them), or the history of racism is making a lie of our pretense at a meritocracy.

...Wow, I never really seriously put thought into that and that is a deep rabbit hole when you dig into it.

How do modern Republicans explicitly attempt to disenfranchise minorities?

Voter ID laws, early voting day changes, gerrymandering and so on are deliberately constructed so as to disenfranchise minorities. They've lost scads of lawsuits on the subject. You can't throw a google search around without hitting a lawsuit they've lost. It's trivial. I know for a fact that in North Carolina they've lost a lawsuit on both early voting day changes (don't worry though, the Republican dominated counties were able to coincidentally remove the same days of early voting, and because they didn't go on the record looking up minority voting patterns) and gerrymandering along explicitly racial lines. Good times.

That's your problem right there. Let's shit on a bunch of innocent people because other people who look like them did some shit.

Dammit. I am sad now. I thought we solved the problem. Your point seems to be "it is too hard to do the right thing so let's fuck people who didn't do the wrong thing because skin color."

There HAS to be a better way than to hurt people who did no wrong.

The people aren't their money or their family's wealth. They are not being denied any opportunities that weren't unfairly won. What was unfairly won however is the past wealth. Do you think that in the 1950s an opportunity was equally likely to go to a black or a white person? Hell no. Now consider that family wealth determines access to education as well as forms a hedge against downwards social mobility. Affirmative action is an attempt to normalize for systemic bias. You could easily turn it right around and ask why should we shit on a bunch of people just because they and their parents were historically shat on and make no attempt to correct them being deliberately consigned to poverty. White people are no more entitled to the spots that instead get used for affirmative action than minorities are entitled to the baggage of their past, but we act like both of these are the natural order of the world when it means we don't have to confront the history of things and what it means for us and our achievements.

Answer the question. Do it. What sins are you liable for? What wealth are you willing to give up? If the argument could be made that but for your 12th generation ancestor conquering a land he did not own, you would not be alive, would you personally volunteer to die? Of course not. Nobody expects you to. What is the solution? Bullshit AA? Fuck someone over because of melanin?

It's so haaaaaaard! Let's do nothing and let me keep all the wealth my grandparents and previous generations were able to accumulate in a wildly unfair environment.

At the very least, people trying to determine who's most fit for a position either at a job or school should account for the fact that because of money and real estate won when the competition was unfair I was able to go to a very good private/elementary school, an excellent high school and have a lot of parental attention that made things easier for me to achieve good grades, and so on down the line. Stuff like this snowballs. I'm comfortably educated and middle class in part because of that money. There's nothing that means I'm entitled to all those resources, and someone with more potential may have gotten fewer resources and appear less impressive. I like having my job and my life, but I'm prepared to acknowledge that it would be fair to normalize for bias.

It's not just minorities anymore. Modern Republicans are trying to disenfranchise everyone who doesn't vote Republican. Through gerrymandering, onerous voter ID requirements, and intimidation.

Hilariously it's still in large part along racial lines, more than could easily be explained by naked partisan motivations, despite partisan motivations being easier to defend in court. The only time NC tried to disenfranchise me or minimize my political power was when I was an out of state college student.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
It involves prejudging people based on their skin color. I don't know a better definition of racism.

Only it doesn't. It might skew things in favor of the minority when all other things are relatively equal, but it doesn't prejudge them.


How do modern Republicans explicitly attempt to disenfranchise minorities?

- Enacting voter ID laws and voting conditions that they know will primarily punish minorities.
- Gerrymandering districts to nullify the power of minority votes.
- Penning laws that make it even harder to hold police accountable for abuses of power.
- Trying to demonize police accountability movements like Black Lives Matter.
- Promoting stop-and-frisk policies that are clearly targeted at minorities.
- Attempting an unconstitutional immigration ban that was clearly discriminatory.
- Stripping minorities of civil rights protections (see: neutering a key part of the Voting Rights Act that protected against gerrymandering, the recent removal of transgender protections)

Need I go on? The Republicans are the party of racism in the modern era.

Edit: oh look, the Republican governor of Alabama just signed a law banning the removal of Confederate monuments.
 
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Reactions: Victorian Gray

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
It involves prejudging people based on their skin color. I don't know a better definition of racism.

Same as thieves/degenerates like to think returning stolen goods back to their owner is also "theft".

How do modern Republicans explicitly attempt to disenfranchise minorities?

By perpetuating the ideas that muslims are terrorists, indigenous looking mexicans are rapists, and people in "those areas" are criminals. Don't play dumb, "you know what I'm talking about".
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
Just because you can't understand the answer, "let the chips fall where they may", doesn't mean one wasn't given. It also helps to read the thread linked, and in general do the minimal amount of thinking to grasp that AA is literally the least expensive form of justice as mentioned numerous times. Acting too stupid to understand anything doesn't relieve you of being wrong, as you might see it doesn't work for svnla either.

AA is not a form of justice. At all. It might make things right for some people who need things made right. It might take stuff away from people who don't deserve it. But it will also do wrong/right to people who don't deserve that. That is why I reject AA as a solution and you should too. Any solution that hurts or rewards undeserving people is WRONG.

The racists have enough political power to elect a president. That's why I wish you the best of luck convincing them to accept any responsibility, much less punishment. An opportunity presents itself right in front of you.

OK thanks I'm on it. I'm sure that convincing racists to not racist should be as easy as convincing you not to fuck people over skin color. Damn. Both sides seem to like doing the same thing. Damn.

It can't be more obvious that different parties think AA is subpar for differing reasons, even if you'll go to your grave pretending to be too dumb to discern between them.

You and I both completely understand the difference in motivation. And yet both of us are smart enough to understand that no matter what the reason, AA is subpar. We should work together for a better solution instead of call people who don't like the crappy solution racists.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
AA is not a form of justice. At all. It might make things right for some people who need things made right. It might take stuff away from people who don't deserve it. But it will also do wrong/right to people who don't deserve that. That is why I reject AA as a solution and you should too. Any solution that hurts or rewards undeserving people is WRONG.



OK thanks I'm on it. I'm sure that convincing racists to not racist should be as easy as convincing you not to fuck people over skin color. Damn. Both sides seem to like doing the same thing. Damn.



You and I both completely understand the difference in motivation. And yet both of us are smart enough to understand that no matter what the reason, AA is subpar. We should work together for a better solution instead of call people who don't like the crappy solution racists.

And what solution do you offer?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
AA is not a form of justice. At all. It might make things right for some people who need things made right. It might take stuff away from people who don't deserve it. But it will also do wrong/right to people who don't deserve that. That is why I reject AA as a solution and you should too. Any solution that hurts or rewards undeserving people is WRONG.

Just because someone not terribly good at understanding anything believes so doesn't mean much. This was explained fairly simply in the linked post and it's really too bad it's in your self-interest to never comprehend it, or taxation ("theft") or much else.

OK thanks I'm on it. I'm sure that convincing racists to not racist should be as easy as convincing you not to fuck people over skin color. Damn. Both sides seem to like doing the same thing. Damn.

Sure, returning stolen goods to the owner is just like stealing all over again. Good job applying conservative logic.

You and I both completely understand the difference in motivation. And yet both of us are smart enough to understand that no matter what the reason, AA is subpar. We should work together for a better solution instead of call people who don't like the crappy solution racists.

No, you're clearly not smart to understand the most basic of civilized ideas, no more so than any of your degenerate colleagues. Btw, there's no point in lying about your conservative roots.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
And what solution do you offer?

I am pretty sure that in this very thread I have said at least 3x that I don't offer the solution. I don't have one. I'd like to discuss and discover solutions collaboratively. I will not entertain solutions that fuck innocent people in order to give shit to people who weren't wronged.
 
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