Huh. Did I just screw myself?

[presidentender]

I'll graduate on the 16th and start work here on the 18th. 'Here' is a software consulting outfit in western MT. They've essentially made a position for me, and I believe them when they say they can't afford to pay me more, especially given the economy. There's a lot to learn here, and the variety of technologies we use is staggering, and the culture is great. Supposedly my rate will be renegotiated after 6 months. But still, 30 grand?

 

[nickbits]

Seems low but I don't know your exact circumstances.

 

[A5]

If you're graduating with a CS degree, that's probably a little low. A similar job usually pays $40-50k in other low CoL areas, and $50k+ (some friends in the SF Bay Area got $70k starting...but they needed it) in most urban areas.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: A5
If you're graduating with a CS degree, that's probably a little low. A similar job usually pays $40-50k in other low CoL areas, and $50k+ (some friends in the SF Bay Area got $70k starting...but they needed it) in most urban areas.

Yeah, I was thinking more like $40k. I'm staying because this is a great place to work, and it'll be good for my earnings potential later on, but I'm still disappointed.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: A5
If you're graduating with a CS degree, that's probably a little low. A similar job usually pays $40-50k in other low CoL areas, and $50k+ (some friends in the SF Bay Area got $70k starting...but they needed it) in most urban areas.

Yeah, I was thinking more like $40k. I'm staying because this is a great place to work, and it'll be good for my earnings potential later on, but I'm still disappointed.

They realize the fact (low rate) by letting you know that your rate will be reviewed at the 6 month time frame.

As an intern, you were not as critical as an FTE.
Now, you need to produce. If you can produce, then you have the justification to ask for 35-40K at the end of 6 months.

 

[squatchman]

I started at 50k around southern Mississippi as a fresh graduate last year, but I'm not an intern. You might just be in a region that pays low, check with any friends you have working in the area. I know companies in NOLA that will try to pay entry-level developers in food stamps if the person lets them. I have friends with Master of CS degrees that couldn't bring themselves to leave New Orleans and now work for 30 a year. You have to be ready to travel for the right position and you should never stop looking for that next higher-paying job.

 

[Rudy Toody]

One of the downsides to an entry level position for the employer is the lack of real-life experience by the employee. Things like working well with others in the group, managing you time, meeting deadlines, willingness to take on additional challenges/responsibilities. Since you are going with consulting, you have the added issue of dealing with many bosses (all clients should be considered bosses.) It takes a good juggler of time and resources to keep everyone happy.

After 6-12 months, you should have a good idea of what you are worth!

I was a consultant for 35 years and it was never dull. There was always something new to learn with each new project.

Good luck!

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: squatchman
I started at 50k around southern Mississippi as a fresh graduate last year, but I'm not an intern.

I'm an intern now. I won't be after grad.

 

[XZeroII]

Be happy you have a job. 30k is fine to start. Do well and maybe you'll have a job for years to come when things start getting good.

 

[brikis98]

30k seems low, but it depends on a lot of factors. For example, the position you're applying for, the particular company (did you interview anywhere else?), whether you negotiated the salary, your degree, your university, GPA and so on.

 

[degibson]

If you're looking for western MT... you probably won't find much else. If you're looking elsewhere, look elsewhere.

 

[wwswimming]

cost of living in Montana is a lot lower & you're better situated in case the economy
continues its downward crawl for another year.

it seems like - to live in the SF Bay Area you practically need $100K a year minimum.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: squatchman
I started at 50k around southern Mississippi as a fresh graduate last year, but I'm not an intern.

I'm an intern now. I won't be after grad.

What is your degree in? Bachelors or associates? What school?

 

[slugg]

I'd say it seems a bit low, from what I've heard people talking. If you really like the job EXCEPT for the money, I'd personally give it the 6 month "trial." If after that time, the money is not looking good, I'd start looking for a new job immediately. You gotta be careful regarding how you market yourself...

But at the same time, at $30k, you're still better off than a lot of people nowadays. My entire family's combined income is around $30k due to this craptacular economy. If the job opportunities are grim, then I'd say you made a good decision. Give it 6 months and see what happens!

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a poor, broke-ass student that lives in a box called a "dorm room." LOL

 

[aceO07]

You could ask for a review after 3-4 months and raise (if you're really ambitious). After that review, you can then figure out how you are doing and what you can improve on. You'll get a feel for what the chances of a raise are and decide to stay or find something new. Depending on what you get out of it, low paying isn't always bad. Good opportunities to learn, good environment, good prospects.. those things can help make up for the low starting salary.

 

[Modelworks]

It really depends on the cost of living in the area. $30K is low if you live in NY city. It is good if you live in other areas. What is rent, insurance, etc going to cost you living there ?

Someone in NY can pay $2k a month for rent on a 1br apartment. Here in NC that gets you a condo on the beach.

 

[presidentender]

For those who've asked: my degree is a bachelor's in Math and CS, from a state university of no reputation. I've been writing production code on a long-term project for one of our biggest customers. I realize that they haven't seen real evidence of what I'm capable of (most of the code I've been writing is in solved problems, based on similar code elsewhere in the project. The one module I did on my own was a simple windows form populated from the database), so I will stick it out until they pay me more or it becomes clear that they won't.

Thanks for the responses, all. Now if I can just deal with the ribbing from my (underemployed undergraduate) friends for the next few months....

 

[squatchman]

Originally posted by: presidentender
Now if I can just deal with the ribbing from my (underemployed undergraduate) friends for the next few months....

Don't ever be ashamed that you have a job. No matter what kind of work you're doing, as long as you make enough to pay your bills then you're still more mature than someone leeching off of others.

 

[chronodekar]

Originally posted by: squatchman
No matter what kind of work you're doing, as long as you make enough to pay your bills then you're still more mature than someone leeching off of others.

It's not a nice feeling, leeching off. I've done it, and I'm not proud of it. But, circumstances were circumstances... -sigh-

 

[LightningRider]

Seems low to me... I got 35K right after school on a contract, after they hired me full time and boosted my salary to 40K.

 

[brandonb]

Understand their position.

How many people come out of school with a programming degree who struggle just to know the basics? The odds of finding a good programmer is about 10-25% in the industry. The rest are just dead weight waiting to be fired.

30k is not low... It's a starting wage to see your potential, if you are good, then you'll get raises quickly.

Don't worry about it.

I started at $11/h (or 22k an year) when I first started in 1997. By 1999 I was making about 55k a year. Within 2 years I doubled my salary. Got laid off in 2003. By 2005 I was at 75k. Got laid off twice between then and now. Now I'm back down to $62.5k, but now I'm happy to just have a job. Software engineering positions are fast paced jobs, you can make money quick, and you can lose your job quick too. $30k would be bad in another industry where everybody gets their typical 2.5% raise per year max. Software engineering is not one of those industries.

 

[Ken g6]

Originally posted by: brandonb
... By 1999 I was making about 55k an hour....

Wow, you made $55,000 per hour?! :Q

Those dot com days must have been better than I've heard about!

 

[BigPoppa]

Living in western MT (Missoula), I'd say starting at 30k would be quite low for a BSCS/Math. I'd be making close to that if I worked 40 hours/week where I'm currently employed (student who took some time off). But again, 30k >>>> 0. If its your only offer so far, take it. Put in the work and get your foot in the door. If you don't get a decent raise, depending on your performance, at the time of the review, look elsewhere. You'll still have the experience from the job.

Did you graduate from UM with the CS/Math degrees?

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: BigPoppa
Living in western MT (Missoula), I'd say starting at 30k would be quite low for a BSCS/Math. I'd be making close to that if I worked 40 hours/week where I'm currently employed (student who took some time off). But again, 30k >>>> 0. If its your only offer so far, take it. Put in the work and get your foot in the door. If you don't get a decent raise, depending on your performance, at the time of the review, look elsewhere. You'll still have the experience from the job.

Did you graduate from UM with the CS/Math degrees?

It's been my only offer because I liked working here during my internship and didn't bother to try elsewhere That was a mistake. If I'm not making substantially more at review, then I'll leave.

And yes, I got the CS/Math degree from UM.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
you have the justification to ask for 35-40K at the end of 6 months.

QFT...and if they give you something about how that's X% and they can only 'bump' you 5% or so unless you are promoted...start looking else where.

The real smart move today is jump ship every 6 months to a year in the beginning and work your salary up. There is no advantage going longhaul anymore with out a pension as an option.

Use each opportunity for experience.