HUMUS ATI/Doom3 tweak explored

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: ronnn
I think this tweak is interesting just in the fact it works. For the troll team here, just to flog Nvidia products - go make benchmarking threads or play with your drivers.

Of course, it wasn't trolling to reference Shady Days 1,234,987 times as evidence of ATIs superiority, even though it's a year later and no HL2 in sight, right Ronnn?

Or to point at "Wallet Raider, Angel of Games Nobody Bought", before that?

Yeah, there wouldn't be any point in discussing an actual game you can buy that just about everyone in the free world is playing, that will be the basis of many huge licenses.

That would be "trolling". We have to wait for HL2 to come out, see if it's significantly better on ATI, and if it is, we can post about that 1,234,987 times as evidence of ATIs superiority.

Only then will we not be trolling.

:roll:

Ironically that statement is more true than you think

Doom III is banned in china.

 

[imported_Apophis]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig
You go, NvRollo!

Why don't you cut those less BRILLIANT than you are some slack buddy?

Sheeeeeeesh. Burn.

 

[nRollo]

Ironically that statement is more true than you think

Doom III is banned in china.

Why is Doom III banned in China?

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Ironically that statement is more true than you think

Doom III is banned in china.

Why is Doom III banned in China?

wow. that'd be crazy!

 

[BFG10K]

Didnt you specifically argue with me about how NVIDIA has just as many issues as ATi does?

Maybe during the 3.10 and earlier days. That certainly changed after that though.

That's not to say that nVidia is perfect however, because they aren't.

 

[Shamrock]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig
You go, NvRollo!

Where did you get that? A fortune cookie? LOL

I am sending you a bill for my monitor and keyboard Rollo...I spit Mt Dew everywhere

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: I-Am-Neither-An-Nvidia-Nor-ATI-Fan-Rollo

To me the "improvements" of the 4.9 CATs and Humus tweaks look pretty impotent- sad news for anyone who doesn't own an nVidia card or X800XT PE indeed.

So somebody figures out how to get better performance out of DIII with NO loss in IQ and instead of being happy for the people that can enjoy this improvement, you decide to threadcrap. Nice.

It's pretty obvious which side of the fence YOU sit on, despite your constant protestations of neutrality.

 

[nRollo]

I am sending you a bill for my monitor and keyboard Rollo...I spit Mt Dew everywhere

Are you trolling Shamrock? Everyone knows Sierra Mist has .173% more lemony goodness than Mt. Dew? Are you a Pepsycophant?!?!? Go troll your crappy pop elsewhere!!!!



LOL- glad to give you a laugh, sorry about the monitor. I've done that myself, it's worse with :beer:.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: I-Am-Neither-An-Nvidia-Nor-ATI-Fan-Rollo

To me the "improvements" of the 4.9 CATs and Humus tweaks look pretty impotent- sad news for anyone who doesn't own an nVidia card or X800XT PE indeed.

So somebody figures out how to get better performance out of DIII with NO loss in IQ and instead of being happy for the people that can enjoy this improvement, you decide to threadcrap. Nice.

It's pretty obvious which side of the fence YOU sit on, despite your constant protestations of neutrality.

"It's a war, and I'll say it again- you're either with us or you're against us! You've got to pick a side, saying you support nVidia and ATI is crazy, like saying you support Corvettes and Porsches! How could a man possibly be in favor of both?!?! "
-Creig


Grow up Creig. We're talking about computer parts here, not the PLO. I hate to do this to you, but <gasp> I actually like both Intel and AMD cpus as well!

BTW- if it makes you feel any better, the next time ATI puts out an interesting part, I'll buy it and post about it. Then you can jump in every post ands yell,"Rollo is a fanATIc!".

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: I-Am-Neither-An-Nvidia-Nor-ATI-Fan-Rollo


"It's a war, and I'll say it again- you're either with us or you're against us! You've got to pick a side, saying you support nVidia and ATI is crazy, like saying you support Corvettes and Porsches! How could a man possibly be in favor of both?!?! "
-Creig

Quit making up quotes Rollo. NOWHERE did I ever say the above.

Grow up Creig.

As far as somebody needing to "Grow up", that would be YOU Rollo, not me. You're the one so fond of spewing 3rd grade insults.

Why don't you cut those less BRILLIANT than you are some slack buddy?

Time will tell, eh, wise one? LOL

You must be a professor or something Creig- I couldn't have figured that out! LOL

Where did you get that? A fortune cookie? LOL

I believe the topic of the thread you pulled that from was titled something like "Why all the cheerleading for the 6800GT". I was pointing out why the 6800GT is such a popular card to Cainam. And you couldn't resist jumping in with another insult.

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig
Why the cheerleading? It's a good card, decent price, nice set of features, is (somewhat) available and is the card of choice to play the latest game with (Doom III). It's only logical that it would be praised by the masses.

Will the tide shift to the X800 series when HL2 is released? Probably. We'll see when (if) Valve ever gets it out the door.

Nvidia had the spotlight all the way from the TNT series to the GF4 line. Then ATI stole the crown with the 9500 to 9800 lineup and now the two are battling for supremacy between the 6800/X800.

Remember, competition is a good thing.

LOL- shrewd analysis.

So why don't YOU try growing up first. You need it more than I do.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo

LOL- why does it not surprise me that you somehow equate your slow as frozen molasses 9800XT to somehow be on par with cards that totally own it like 6800GTs?

Earth to Apoppin:
Your card is like something a homeless guy would have compared to a 6800GT.

No 20% vs 30% to argue about here, Poppinfresh- the 6800GT is TWICE as fast as your caveman 9800.

Too bad, so sad. The only guys who consider the 9800XT "fast" these days are sleeping on heat exhaust grates and dining in soup kitchens.

Spoken like the mature, unbiased person you are.

 

[Jeff7181]

Rollo... normally I agree with the things you say, and find your sarcasm amusing... but this time you're just being an ass. Free performance increases for ATI owners. What's bad about that? Who cares if it's 1%, 10%, or 20%... a simple change to a single file increasing performance is a good thing. Forget the ATI vs. nVidia crap... forget about other cards that are faster... this is a free performance gain with no IQ loss for anybody with an ATI card who plays Doom 3... that's a good thing no matter how you slice it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Rollo... normally I agree with the things you say, and find your sarcasm amusing... but this time you're just being an ass. Free performance increases for ATI owners. What's bad about that? Who cares if it's 1%, 10%, or 20%... a simple change to a single file increasing performance is a good thing. Forget the ATI vs. nVidia crap... forget about other cards that are faster... this is a free performance gain with no IQ loss for anybody with an ATI card who plays Doom 3... that's a good thing no matter how you slice it.

I'm sorry I've offended you Jeff.

I don't think the Humus tweak is a "only good- no bad" slam dunk though:

Lots of Humus users sound off

I wouldn't call it "free" if it causes artifacting.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Rollo... normally I agree with the things you say, and find your sarcasm amusing... but this time you're just being an ass. Free performance increases for ATI owners. What's bad about that? Who cares if it's 1%, 10%, or 20%... a simple change to a single file increasing performance is a good thing. Forget the ATI vs. nVidia crap... forget about other cards that are faster... this is a free performance gain with no IQ loss for anybody with an ATI card who plays Doom 3... that's a good thing no matter how you slice it.

I'm sorry I've offended you Jeff.

I don't think the Humus tweak is a "only good- no bad" slam dunk though:

Lots of Humus users sound off


I wouldn't call it "free" if it causes artifacting.

It doesn't cause artifacting on mine... Doom 3 is very intense... I can't overclock my 9800 Pro more than 5 MHz before I start seeing white sparkles... maybe the people that have been having problems with artifacting have their's overclocked so far that it's just not stable? Maybe they're not using official drivers... there has to be something else they're doing differently that makes the tweak work funky on their system, because it's NOT ATI's hardware, it's NOT the drivers, and it's NOT the game... because I'm using a Powercolor 9800 Pro with CAT 4.8's (4.7's worked too) and Doom 3 and I'm not getting any problems during gameplay... unless you consider crystal clear textures due to running 16XAF a problem (your link doesn't work by the way)

 

[nRollo]

Link is fixed. In principle, I agree with you that any free performance is good. I just don't consider what this offers worth anyone's time. (although I suppose people spend time doing hardware mods to OC for 2-3fps also)

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Link is fixed. In principle, I agree with you that any free performance is good. I just don't consider what this offers worth anyone's time. (although I suppose people spend time doing hardware mods to OC for 2-3fps also)

Well, that's the point... this tweak isn't a "Doom 3 performance fix." 2-3 FPS here, 2-3 FPS there... it ads up... and when your average frame rate is 40, 4-6 FPS is a 10-15% increase... that's definately worth MY time, I dunno about your's.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Please oh please Ronnn. I won't troll anymore! I'll pimp the Humpus tweaks and their pathetic 2fps increases! I'll say "DX9b is good enough!" I'll say "Who needs that UltraShadow or video encoding!" I'll say "who needs linux?"

For the love of God Ronnn, I have a family. Don't say I'm a troll.

Ok you are not a troll. Your responses in a thread used by ATI owners to discuss a tweak have been very mature and certainly helpful.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Please oh please Ronnn. I won't troll anymore! I'll pimp the Humpus tweaks and their pathetic 2fps increases! I'll say "DX9b is good enough!" I'll say "Who needs that UltraShadow or video encoding!" I'll say "who needs linux?"

For the love of God Ronnn, I have a family. Don't say I'm a troll.

Ok you are not a troll. Your responses in a thread used by ATI owners to discuss a tweak have been very mature and certainly helpful.

Sigh. :roll:

The Humus tweak is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I've always been able to see a 2fps difference.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo

Please oh please Ronnn. I won't troll anymore! I'll pimp the Humpus tweaks and their pathetic 2fps increases! I'll say "DX9b is good enough!" I'll say "Who needs that UltraShadow or video encoding!" I'll say "who needs linux?"

For the love of God Ronnn, I have a family. Don't say I'm a troll.

Ok you are not a troll. Your responses in a thread used by ATI owners to discuss a tweak have been very mature and certainly helpful.

Sigh. :roll:

The Humus tweak is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I've always been able to see a 2fps difference.

For the record... sliced bagels were the greatest thing since sliced bread... the Humus tweak is 3rd.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo


Sigh. :roll:

The Humus tweak is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I've always been able to see a 2fps difference.

Not Humpus? I am impressed. So have you tried the Humus tweak? If so please include it in your personal benchmarking threads. Is quite interesting how some such as Cainam get a real performance increase and others such as yourself only get 2fps. Hopefully the Doom 3 team can get their act together and put out a patch that benefits all of us. Actually I agree with you that benchmarking to the exact fps is a weird sport and do prefer the Hcop style of review.

:laugh:

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: gururu

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I thought the tweak replaced an instruction with an equation. An equation already embedded in the instruction set. The lookup is faster in some cases (nVidia), the equation faster in others (ATI).

Hmmm, Ok- the lookup table is kind of like a cheat sheet- giving you the answers instead of having to do out the maths. To get the answers you need to hit memory which chews up some bandwidth. This is done as the equations to get those results would be too intensive to handle properly.

The equation in this particular example(Humus's) isn't the same as the one that was precalculated for the lookup table. It is a simpler equation that does not give the same results, it's just close enough that most people who think ATi has 'good' texture filtering anyway are certainly not going to notice the imperfections the overwhelming majority of the time. The approximation is "close enough" that people are happy with it.

Thanks Benskywalker, that was a clear explanation. The article didn't really talk about the precise differences the tweak employed. If Humus added his own simpler equation, does that decrease the possibility of Id including it in a patch?

JC has stated that the lookup table is so that the results match the bias calculations of non-shader enabled cards(a situation due in part to development starting before shader enabled cards existed), so it seems unlikely it would be patched in; id seems to want to keep IQ as constant as possible.

 

[ronnn]

To bad, no patch. Oh well guess I will have to buy other games then, at least until the price of D3 drops or I get a card that can run it on high settings. :thumbsup: