Hundreds of former DOJ prosecutors say Trump would have been indited if not the Pres.

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Well but there's that one former prosecutor named "Rew Dee Uguliani" that says "Nuh uh!" So obviously the other 400 are wrong.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,195
126
And yet there are millions of people for whom the realization that Trump is a criminal is obvious.

Then there is the matter of continued obstruction and what to do about it. Some seem to be seeing the matter is serious and are doing something about it.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
If it weren't that it's hurting the US, this would be a fascinating situation... a President who's really only a free man because of his office. He's basically living on borrowed time, and his success in 2020 determines how soon he goes to prison.

And what's funny/sad is that Trump clearly didn't stop to think that running for and becoming President would put his longstanding criminal behavior under the microscope, that it would increase the chances of facing prison time. Then again, he has always assumed he could get away with whatever he wants to do, so that's not completely surprising.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,912
2,130
126
Well but there's that one former prosecutor named "Rew Dee Uguliani" that says "Nuh uh!" So obviously the other 400 are wrong.
There's no consensus clearly...like that China-driven hoax global warming. I mean if even 0.1% says "hey wait a minute"...then the other 99.9% must be wrong....clearly.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,195
126
If it weren't that it's hurting the US, this would be a fascinating situation... a President who's really only a free man because of his office. He's basically living on borrowed time, and his success in 2020 determines how soon he goes to prison.

And what's funny/sad is that Trump clearly didn't stop to think that running for and becoming President would put his longstanding criminal behavior under the microscope, that it would increase the chances of facing prison time. Then again, he has always assumed he could get away with whatever he wants to do, so that's not completely surprising.
I believe it to be a little known fact that we are motivated at an unconscious level to test the strength of our mental illness by living it over and over again vicariously. A person like Trump with a narcissistic ego will constantly get himself into a position of self abasement in order to demonstrate to himself he can survive any humiliation successfully. His childhood trauma of being humiliated will drive him to abase himself over and over again so that he can reenact his ego denial in the form of narcissistic self love. The sickness must constantly manifest which is what makes it a sickness. It's like sadistically pleasurable self flagellation. It's feeling worthless, acting worthlessly as a result, and then living to play another day because others worship you for being successful at being sick. Meanwhile the country and the more healthy in it are being sucked into the Trump meat grinder where everything he touches dies.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
If it weren't that it's hurting the US, this would be a fascinating situation... a President who's really only a free man because of his office. He's basically living on borrowed time, and his success in 2020 determines how soon he goes to prison.

And what's funny/sad is that Trump clearly didn't stop to think that running for and becoming President would put his longstanding criminal behavior under the microscope, that it would increase the chances of facing prison time. Then again, he has always assumed he could get away with whatever he wants to do, so that's not completely surprising.
I don't know if he just doesn't get what working for the government would be like, or that because he's never worked for anybody in his entire life, he could just continue operating that way without thinking that a millions eyes are on him. Still he's so far getting away with public obstruction of justice. His tweets alone would send any normal citizen to jail.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,195
126
375 Angry Democrats!
Maybe one day Republicans will figure out they are too insane to be put in charge of the country, that they will always produce a mass outbreak of ungovernable rage. You can't just go around and destroy everything that makes America America and expect to go unopposed. You are going to get kicked in the teeth, even by folk who are normally wimps. Sorry about that last part.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,593
29,299
136
I believe it to be a little known fact that we are motivated at an unconscious level to test the strength of our mental illness by living it over and over again vicariously. A person like Trump with a narcissistic ego will constantly get himself into a position of self abasement in order to demonstrate to himself he can survive any humiliation successfully. His childhood trauma of being humiliated will drive him to abase himself over and over again so that he can reenact his ego denial in the form of narcissistic self love. The sickness must constantly manifest which is what makes it a sickness. It's like sadistically pleasurable self flagellation. It's feeling worthless, acting worthlessly as a result, and then living to play another day because others worship you for being successful at being sick. Meanwhile the country and the more healthy in it are being sucked into the Trump meat grinder where everything he touches dies.
Trump is a student of Norman Vincent Peale. The only thing Trump seems to have taken away from his teachings is that you can will something to be just by ignoring contrary opinions. Coupling that philosophy with the insulation that tremendous wealth provides led to a guy who thinks he is the greatest at everything because he thinks he is and surrounds himself with people that confirm that he is and even when someone manages to tell him he isn't all he has to do is ignore that person and attack that person until he doesn't hear it anymore.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Maybe one day Republicans will figure out they are too insane to be put in charge of the country, that they will always produce a mass outbreak of ungovernable rage. You can't just go around and destroy everything that makes America America and expect to go unopposed. You are going to get kicked in the teeth, even by folk who are normally wimps. Sorry about that last part.

I guess we'll see if they will or not. As I've said before David Frum has been wrong about so, so many things in his life but one quote of his that rings absolutely true to me is something to the effect of: 'if conservatives in America determine they cannot achieve their goals through democratic means they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.'

That's what's happening now. Their party's leader is almost certainly a serial felon and substantial evidence exists to that effect. The law and the structure of our society demands that they abandon their corrupt leader but they value conservatives being in charge more than they value the rule of law. And so here we are.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
If it weren't that it's hurting the US, this would be a fascinating situation... a President who's really only a free man because of his office. He's basically living on borrowed time, and his success in 2020 determines how soon he goes to prison.

And what's funny/sad is that Trump clearly didn't stop to think that running for and becoming President would put his longstanding criminal behavior under the microscope, that it would increase the chances of facing prison time. Then again, he has always assumed he could get away with whatever he wants to do, so that's not completely surprising.

I'm not counting on anything until the cell doors clang shut.

Betting odds favor no jail time I think. Only small people go to prison.

MFer will die having led a life full of vice, sin and crime and will not paid anything for it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
I'm not counting on anything until the cell doors clang shut.

Betting odds favor no jail time I think. Only small people go to prison.

MFer will die having led a life full of vice, sin and crime and will not paid anything for it.

Agreed. I doubt he'll ever face even charges let alone jail time. Remember when Ford pardoned Nixon? I think if a dem wins in 2020 that POTUS and his or her AG will face a decision about whether to get mired in something politically divisive or else just move on. IF Trump does get prosecuted, a better bet would be the NY AG but I don't think obstructing a federal investigation or violating federal election laws are within their purview.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I'm not counting on anything until the cell doors clang shut.

Betting odds favor no jail time I think. Only small people go to prison.

MFer will die having led a life full of vice, sin and crime and will not paid anything for it.

Every deplorable in America admires him for it, too. They'd be just like him if they could.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Agreed. I doubt he'll ever face even charges let alone jail time. Remember when Ford pardoned Nixon? I think if a dem wins in 2020 that POTUS and his or her AG will face a decision about whether to get mired in something politically divisive or else just move on. IF Trump does get prosecuted, a better bet would be the NY AG but I don't think obstructing a federal investigation or violating federal election laws are within their purview.

Yeah. I have severe doubts a new D admin will want to go back and devote energy to prosecution rather than naively try to move forward on their agenda.

Eg Obama and the banks c2009, let alone W for the Iraq war fraud.

Unfortunately I don't think the Trump admin is just something you can just get over and move on. Serious national therapy and reconcilation will be needed. Also not going to happen.

I'd be shocked (and delighted) if a candidate like mayor Pete would actually follow through on his promise to nominate compensatory picks to the SCOTUS to make up for what was stolen.

Do that, and also imprison Trump and RICO his entire criminal enterprise? I'll engage the fantasy, but won't bet on it becoming reality.
Justice isn't fair nor blind.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Agreed. I doubt he'll ever face even charges let alone jail time. Remember when Ford pardoned Nixon? I think if a dem wins in 2020 that POTUS and his or her AG will face a decision about whether to get mired in something politically divisive or else just move on. IF Trump does get prosecuted, a better bet would be the NY AG but I don't think obstructing a federal investigation or violating federal election laws are within their purview.

It will be interesting (read: scary) to see what happens if Trump loses in 2020.

Assuming he eventually agrees to leave office, far from a foregone conclusion, from what I’ve read pardoning himself is not possible. That means he would need to resign and have Pence do it. I wonder if Pence would?

As far as NYS goes I think prosecuting Trump is not as unlikely as people think. (Although admittedly still not super likely) From the little I’ve seen of their investigation they are going after his finances and I think it’s fairly likely they find something to prosecute there. I also think the political realities of NYS would reward them for a successful prosecution.

I get how people say we don’t want to get into the habit of prosecuting prior political leadership and I agreed with not prosecuting GWB. There is a very large difference between not criminalizing political differences and ignorant rampant criminal behavior though. If we don’t act against Trump what stops the next president from doing the same? If you want a dictatorship, letting the president commit a lot of crimes in public view and not doing anything about it is how you get a dictatorship.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
If it weren't that it's hurting the US, this would be a fascinating situation... a President who's really only a free man because of his office. He's basically living on borrowed time, and his success in 2020 determines how soon he goes to prison.

And what's funny/sad is that Trump clearly didn't stop to think that running for and becoming President would put his longstanding criminal behavior under the microscope, that it would increase the chances of facing prison time. Then again, he has always assumed he could get away with whatever he wants to do, so that's not completely surprising.
It's very possible that the minute Trump is out of office some old timey Dems will declare victory and that's that, just as with the Iraq War: "Lets put this behind us" attitude. Of course apologists will defend that action and that may be that at the Federal level.

NY however is mightily pissed at Trump and his family and organization. Cuomo can't be bribed because he's not interested in owning Trump's fortune, but taking it away and leaving him a pauper? Yes, please! Our AG recognizes Trump as a criminal as well and no Nunes nor Mitch nor anyone else can stop it. Collectively we don't give a shit about DC politics concerning prosecutions.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
It's quite the list who signed on too. Some very prominent people from "both sides". List is at the bottom.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1

Now up to 439 signers.

None of them are real Republicans as we learned from the Mueller investigation

Republican congress approved it but somehow it was Democrat’s fault
Steele dossier started from a conservative think tank but somehow they turned out to be Hillary supporters all of them
Mueller & his boss both life long republicans but somehow they were actually playing a deep cover role for the democrats
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
It will be interesting (read: scary) to see what happens if Trump loses in 2020.

Assuming he eventually agrees to leave office, far from a foregone conclusion, from what I’ve read pardoning himself is not possible. That means he would need to resign and have Pence do it. I wonder if Pence would?

As far as NYS goes I think prosecuting Trump is not as unlikely as people think. (Although admittedly still not super likely) From the little I’ve seen of their investigation they are going after his finances and I think it’s fairly likely they find something to prosecute there. I also think the political realities of NYS would reward them for a successful prosecution.

I get how people say we don’t want to get into the habit of prosecuting prior political leadership and I agreed with not prosecuting GWB. There is a very large difference between not criminalizing political differences and ignorant rampant criminal behavior though. If we don’t act against Trump what stops the next president from doing the same? If you want a dictatorship, letting the president commit a lot of crimes in public view and not doing anything about it is how you get a dictatorship.

Agreed. Prosecuting Trump in NYS would confer an embarrassment of political riches. They're just going to have to find some felonies that we're not already aware of. All of what's come out so far appears to be a matter of exclusive federal jurisdiction.

So far as a hypothetical democratic POTUS prosecuting him, I think you're right their too, when it comes to the longer term health of our democracy. But I would expect such a POTUS to be thinking about what the immediate political impact would be. They'll probably rationalize not prosecuting him by concluding that the policy issues they were elected on are more important.

Here is what I would do if I was POTUS after 2020. I would say, during the campaign, that all prosecutorial decisions will be the sole discretion of my appointed AG, that I would never interfere with the AG's discretion or even speak with the AG about individual cases at all. Then, if asked while POTUS about Trump or anyone else, I would refer the press to DoJ. Not only would that stance distance the POTUS from any decision to prosecute or not, but after Trump, it's exactly what the country needs, an independent DoJ.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It will be interesting (read: scary) to see what happens if Trump loses in 2020.

Assuming he eventually agrees to leave office, far from a foregone conclusion, from what I’ve read pardoning himself is not possible. That means he would need to resign and have Pence do it. I wonder if Pence would?

I figure Pence would agree to anything to be the 46th President, even if it's just for one day. He already sold his soul to Satan to be Trump's running mate.
 
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