Hurricane Irma track change! (for the worse!)

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Sep 12, 2004
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The trolls can blow me. And you have already.

Thanks for playing while none of you have any game in this situation. Sit back, you loser armchair quarterbacks, from your distant places, and be huge douches in the process. You have no idea what is going on but want to play pretend instead.

Congrats, asswipes. You are every reason why this place sucks now. Enjoy your little circle jerk.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
It's funny because the points he is trying to make are not altogether wrong - the media (local and national) IS overhyping the destruction in the Keys / South Florida, but he is so caught up in convincing us that he is the most awesome person on the planet that the point is otherwise lost.

Yes - the media is focusing on showing us trailer parks that were washed away due to the storm surge. Yes - that is awful for the people that lived there. No - that is not indicative of the typical amount of damage throughout South Florida / the Keys. There is a lot of destruction - boats washed away, trees down, people without power, etc. - but most homes are still standing with their roof intact. A lot of places still don't have power, a lot of places along the coast will need to be rebuilt (due to the storm surge), and a good % of our tree canopy is gone - those are all very real, but boring infrastructure problems caused by the hurricane.

The media doesn't focus on the boring stuff - it's better to show an image of mobile homes washed away and suggest that is what the entirety of the Keys looks like. You get better ratings for that stuff. It doesn't make it any less tragic for those who lost their homes (mobile or otherwise), but the reality is most homes are still there and in ok shape (at least in the upper / middle Keys as nobody has really been allowed yet into the lower Keys - including the media).

Mr. "I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art" (shout out to Weird Al) was not wrong, but his insistence that we all recognize his awesomeness and kindness and humility is somewhat baffling.
 
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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
It's funny because the points he is trying to make are not altogether wrong - the media (local and national) IS overhyping the destruction in the Keys / South Florida, but he is so caught up in convincing us that he is the most awesome person on the planet that the point is otherwise lost.

Yes - the media is focusing on showing us trailer parks that were washed away due to the storm surge. Yes - that is awful for the people that lived there. No - that is not indicative of the typical amount of damage throughout South Florida / the Keys. There is a lot of destruction - boats washed away, trees down, people without power, etc. - but most homes are still standing with their roof intact. A lot of places still don't have power, a lot of places along the coast will need to be rebuilt (due to the storm surge), and a good % of our tree canopy is gone - those are all very real, but boring infrastructure problems caused by the hurricane.

The media doesn't focus on the boring stuff - it's better to show an image of mobile homes washed away and suggest that is what the entirety of the Keys looks like. You get better ratings for that stuff. It doesn't make it any less tragic for those who lost their homes (mobile or otherwise), but the reality is most homes are still there and in ok shape (at least in the upper / middle Keys as nobody has really been allowed yet into the lower Keys - including the media).

Mr. "I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art" (shout out to Weird Al) was not wrong, but his insistence that we all recognize his awesomeness and kindness and humility is somewhat baffling.

Yea, this was why we sought a cinder-block construction when we bought our house. A brand-new double-wide including lot fee's would have been a lot cheaper at the time, but I don't like the idea of their inability to withstand even cat 1 winds. Where I Fuc**d up is not realizing that all these very old, very heavy, trees in our + neighbors yard's are able to cause the destruction of the house even though the house itself withstood the winds just fine. It would cost a small fortune to get all of the tree's that are within fall-range of my house removed, 2 of them are not even on my property and you need a permit for every tree you take down. The city comes out and inspects your yard+counts remaining tree's and "grants" you permission to have it removed. There's another HUGE pine about 30% larger than the one that fell just 20-25Ft from the den, if that guy calls it quits and lands on the house I'd prefer to NOT be there when it happens!. This is the last 'cane I will "ride out" at the house now that I fully understand the danger these tree's place during a storm.
 
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Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
Yea, this was why we sought a cinder-block construction when we bought our house. A brand-new double-wide including lot fee's would have been a lot cheaper at the time, but I don't like the idea of their inability to withstand even cat 1 winds. Where I Fuc**d up is not realizing that all these very old, very heavy, trees in our + neighbors yard's are able to cause the destruction of the house even though the house itself withstood the winds just fine. It would cost a small fortune to get all of the tree's that are within fall-range of my house removed, 2 of them are not even on my property and you need a permit for every tree you take down. The city comes out and inspects your yard+counts remaining tree's and "grants" you permission to have it removed. There's another HUGE pine about 30% larger than the one that fell just 20-25Ft from the den, if that guy calls it quits and lands on the house I'd prefer to NOT be there when it happens!. This is the last 'cane I will "ride out" at the house now that I fully understand the danger these tree's place during a storm.

I don't think I have the pictures anymore, but when we lived in Virginia we were surrounded by huge poplar trees. We had one storm that caused a huge branch to fall and crush our car. Two weeks later to the day, another storm and a tree fell from neighbor's yard, across our house, and into the next neighbor's yard. My wife is not too keen on huge trees anymore so I try to keep our trees here at manageable height. We have a couple trees in the front yard that I am eyeing for removal (mostly to fit another couple fruit trees... but I can sell it to my wife as house safety).
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Yea, this was why we sought a cinder-block construction when we bought our house. A brand-new double-wide including lot fee's would have been a lot cheaper at the time, but I don't like the idea of their inability to withstand even cat 1 winds. Where I Fuc**d up is not realizing that all these very old, very heavy, trees in our + neighbors yard's are able to cause the destruction of the house even though the house itself withstood the winds just fine. It would cost a small fortune to get all of the tree's that are within fall-range of my house removed, 2 of them are not even on my property and you need a permit for every tree you take down. The city comes out and inspects your yard+counts remaining tree's and "grants" you permission to have it removed. There's another HUGE pine about 30% larger than the one that fell just 20-25Ft from the den, if that guy calls it quits and lands on the house I'd prefer to NOT be there when it happens!. This is the last 'cane I will "ride out" at the house now that I fully understand the danger these tree's place during a storm.

Yeah, it generally only takes one "oh shit" moment for people to say fuck riding out major hurricanes. I'm just really glad that no one was hurt in yours, aside from the pair of underwear you had to throw away.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
I don't think I have the pictures anymore, but when we lived in Virginia we were surrounded by huge poplar trees. We had one storm that caused a huge branch to fall and crush our car. Two weeks later to the day, another storm and a tree fell from neighbor's yard, across our house, and into the next neighbor's yard. My wife is not too keen on huge trees anymore so I try to keep our trees here at manageable height. We have a couple trees in the front yard that I am eyeing for removal (mostly to fit another couple fruit trees... but I can sell it to my wife as house safety).

Found the picture of the car buried in tree, but the house ones seem to be hosted on a site that no longer exists (zooomr or something).

 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Yeah, it generally only takes one "oh shit" moment for people to say fuck riding out major hurricanes. I'm just really glad that no one was hurt in yours, aside from the pair of underwear you had to throw away.
Defiantly an "oh shit" moment LOL!, between the crushing of the aluminum and the smash+penetration of the roof it was the most scary thing I've ever been through. After the 5-10 second period passes when you realize your OK you then get to, "shit, how bad is the damage" phase. When I opened the entrance to the garage from the kitchen and saw the limb had penetrated my heart sank, then I opened the door leading out to the porch and saw Mr. tree laying there. I'm going to build a small cart to haul all the crap from the back of the yard up to the front, I've got a riding mower so I'll use that after I cut it into manageable chunks. It's not the cutting/lifting that wears me down, it's the dragging it all to the curb. There are now 2 pine trees in my yard that have the tops ripped off plus 2 others, (they were small) I was able to cut down in '04. Well I'm off to Harbor freight, hopefully they have everything I need to build my cart..
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Found the picture of the car buried in tree, but the house ones seem to be hosted on a site that no longer exists (zooomr or something).

You don't really realize the potential energy contained in a standing tree until it comes down, that guy probably spent many, many, years getting that big.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,315
2,922
126
The trolls can blow me. And you have already.

Thanks for playing while none of you have any game in this situation. Sit back, you loser armchair quarterbacks, from your distant places, and be huge douches in the process. You have no idea what is going on but want to play pretend instead.

Congrats, asswipes. You are every reason why this place sucks now. Enjoy your little circle jerk.

Breath in, count to 4. Exhale, count to 4. Repeat.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Defiantly an "oh shit" moment LOL!, between the crushing of the aluminum and the smash+penetration of the roof it was the most scary thing I've ever been through. After the 5-10 second period passes when you realize your OK you then get to, "shit, how bad is the damage" phase. When I opened the entrance to the garage from the kitchen and saw the limb had penetrated my heart sank, then I opened the door leading out to the porch and saw Mr. tree laying there. I'm going to build a small cart to haul all the crap from the back of the yard up to the front, I've got a riding mower so I'll use that after I cut it into manageable chunks. It's not the cutting/lifting that wears me down, it's the dragging it all to the curb. There are now 2 pine trees in my yard that have the tops ripped off plus 2 others, (they were small) I was able to cut down in '04. Well I'm off to Harbor freight, hopefully they have everything I need to build my cart..

Yeah, I've been through something similar. Initially your heart jumps into hyperspeed and your instincts kind of kick in and you are just looking for somewhere to hide or jump on top of family members to try and protect them from the imminent ruru. Then as you start to catch your breath and realize that everyone is still alive and you aren't covered in rubble, yet, the true realization of what happened starts to sink in and that's the wrost part. Your brain starts going through a thousand what-ifs and all of them are worse than what actually happened.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
The trolls can blow me. And you have already.

Thanks for playing while none of you have any game in this situation. Sit back, you loser armchair quarterbacks, from your distant places, and be huge douches in the process. You have no idea what is going on but want to play pretend instead.

Congrats, asswipes. You are every reason why this place sucks now. Enjoy your little circle jerk.


 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Glad to hear it bud! IIRC you said that your house didn't suffer any significant damage?
Sorry, been very busy. Some screening on the Lanai will have to be replaced and we lost two downspout extensions. They're somewhere in the county but I've decided not to go and look for them.

This was a brand new house and the landscaping took a bit of a hit. Our palm tree is gone and a small tree in the front of the house got pushed over. We pulled that back upright and have been watering it like crazy. Two small trees in the back are pushed over. None of these trees ever got the chance to root so it's not even a bit surprising. What I need to find out is where the line of demarcation between the HOA and us lies in regards to the landscaping. I should know but I don't.

Got the hurricane shutters removed and have been putting things away in anticipation of getting furniture, washer and dryer, window coverings and everything that got delivery or installation postponed due to Irma. The front door and garage door are both plastered with bits of vegetation. We have broomed off as much as we can and will have to scrub off whatever will not come off with water. We made out very well as did all the homes in the development especially when it's taken into consideration that the eye passed within a few miles of us. (I need to see if the actual track it took is out there on the interwebs.) Our biggest issue is the magnitude of the damage to the landscaping throughout the development. The community was done in phases and the first phases had very mature landscaping. The cleanup is one of daunting proportions and really has to be seen. It can't be described.

Another issue is that adjacent to us is a mobile home community. The wreckage of that is strewn throughout our area. Pieces of styrofoam, crumpled sheets of aluminum, all kinds of material is everywhere. On the other side of our street was a green belt with palm trees and trees twenty or twenty five feet high that provided so much screening that it was impossible to tell that there was another community of any kind on the other side. The palms survived but the tall trees have been decimated. They have no power over there and generators are running along with chainsaws. Those people are hurting.

The population in this area doubles during 'high season' when the snowbirds come down. We were thinking of what an evacuation would have been like if these storms occurred during that time of year.

Gasoline is somewhat scarce. You can get it but you'll wait in a long line for an hour or perhaps more. We're being told to boil our water and the biggest issue is damage or lack of electricity to sewage pumps and equipment. We're being told to not run the dishwasher or do laundry, observe the yellow let it mellow rule and to limit all water usage to the greatest extent possible. Some areas are experiencing sewage in the streets and bubbling up in homes. They are threatening to reduce water pressure or cut it off entirely if voluntary conservation is not enough.

Many traffic lights are not functioning and it appears that few understand the concepts that rule a four way stop.

Food is starting to return to the grocery stores. Most grocery stores are running on generators at the moment. We did go out to eat yesterday for breakfast on Marco Island and locally for dinner. The restaurant (Texas Roadhouse and the only one open near us) was running on generator power and had a very limited menu. Food was served on paper plates and with plastic silverware. The boil water situation has them in a position where it's difficult to wash dishes without potentially endangering the public.

They did have beer on tap and a limited offering of soft drinks served in cans. No water.

Garbage collection starts up for us on Monday but recycling is suspended until further notice. Those trucks are being put to use clearing the streets of debris. We are being asked to pile up to the extent possible the debris we have in our yards for pickup.

It will take a year I would guess to return the area to one fully cleaned up and fully functional. Many businesses will close. It is tough for some businesses to weather the off season when the population is low and this will sound their death knell. A few weeks or as long as a month without power and those stores not providing necessities will go under.

Maria is on the same trajectory as Irma. Oh boy...
 
Last edited:
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ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
We're being told to boil our water and the biggest issue is damage or lack of electricity to sewage pumps and equipment. We're being told to not run the dishwasher or do laundry, observe the yellow let it mellow rule and to limit all water usage to the greatest extent possible. Some areas are experiencing sewage in the streets and bubbling up in homes. They are threatening to reduce water pressure or cut it off entirely if voluntary conservation is not enough.
Good on you for keeping a sane head, because honest to goodness that sounds like hell. I can put up a lot, but sewage? Yuck. When water goes down the hole, I expect it to stay down the hole.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Sorry, been very busy. Some screening on the Lanai will have to be replaced and we lost two downspout extensions. They're somewhere in the county but I've decided not to go and look for them.

This was a brand new house and the landscaping took a bit of a hit. Our palm tree is gone and a small tree in the front of the house got pushed over. We pulled that back upright and have been watering it like crazy. Two small trees in the back are pushed over. None of these trees ever got the chance to root so it's not even a bit surprising. What I need to find out is where the line of demarcation between the HOA and us lies in regards to the landscaping. I should know but I don't.

Got the hurricane shutters removed and have been putting things away in anticipation of getting furniture, washer and dryer, window coverings and everything that got delivery or installation postponed due to Irma. The front door and garage door are both plastered with bits of vegetation. We have broomed off as much as we can and will have to scrub off whatever will not come off with water. We made out very well as did all the homes in the development especially when it's taken into consideration that the eye passed within a few miles of us. (I need to see if the actual track it took is out there on the interwebs.) Our biggest issue is the magnitude of the damage to the landscaping throughout the development. The community was done in phases and the first phases had very mature landscaping. The cleanup is one of daunting proportions and really has to be seen. It can't be described.

Another issue is that adjacent to us is a mobile home community. The wreckage of that is strewn throughout our area. Pieces of styrofoam, crumpled sheets of aluminum, all kinds of material is everywhere. On the other side of our street was a green belt with palm trees and trees twenty or twenty five feet high that provided so much screening that it was impossible to tell that there was another community of any kind on the other side. The palms survived but the tall trees have been decimated. They have no power over there and generators are running along with chainsaws. Those people are hurting.

The population in this area doubles during 'high season' when the snowbirds come down. We were thinking of what an evacuation would have been like if these storms occurred during that time of year.

Gasoline is somewhat scarce. You can get it but you'll wait in a long line for an hour or perhaps more. We're being told to boil our water and the biggest issue is damage or lack of electricity to sewage pumps and equipment. We're being told to not run the dishwasher or do laundry, observe the yellow let it mellow rule and to limit all water usage to the greatest extent possible. Some areas are experiencing sewage in the streets and bubbling up in homes. They are threatening to reduce water pressure or cut it off entirely if voluntary conservation is not enough.

Many traffic lights are not functioning and it appears that few understand the concepts that rule a four way stop.

Food is starting to return to the grocery stores. Most grocery stores are running on generators at the moment. We did go out to eat yesterday for breakfast on Marco Island and locally for dinner. The restaurant (Texas Roadhouse and the only one open near us) was running on generator power and had a very limited menu. Food was served on paper plates and with plastic silverware. The boil water situation has them in a position where it's difficult to wash dishes without potentially endangering the public.

They did have beer on tap and a limited offering of soft drinks served in cans. No water.

Garbage collection starts up for us on Monday but recycling is suspended until further notice. Those trucks are being put to use clearing the streets of debris. We are being asked to pile up to the extent possible the debris we have in our yards for pickup.

It will take a year I would guess to return the area to one fully cleaned up and fully functional. Many businesses will close. It is tough for some businesses to weather the off season when the population is low and this will sound their death knell. A few weeks or as long as a month without power and those stores not providing necessities will go under.

Maria is on the same trajectory as Irma. Oh boy...
Jesus, if Maria heads this way with all the limbs/complete trees/wooden fencing all still piled along the roadside like it is now it will be a living hell. God I hope this stays away, a small rain shower this AM and I heard a transformer pop and power was lost for 5-10 seconds. The grid is in really, really rough shape right now, we DO NOT need another system in town right now.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Jesus, if Maria heads this way with all the limbs/complete trees/wooden fencing all still piled along the roadside like it is now it will be a living hell. God I hope this stays away, a small rain shower this AM and I heard a transformer pop and power was lost for 5-10 seconds. The grid is in really, really rough shape right now, we DO NOT need another system in town right now.
No models have Maria heading your way. Everything is in place for it to recurve out to sea after it passes the Bahamas. (Keep an eye on it regardless, but the odds are strongly in your favor)
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
No models have Maria heading your way. Everything is in place for it to recurve out to sea after it passes the Bahamas. (Keep an eye on it regardless, but the odds are strongly in your favor)
Yea, I just got through looking at weather underground, it seems Jose has left a hole in the typical Bermuda High that usually lingers out in the mid-Atlantic this time of year. Maria is expected to move into this spot vs an east-coast landfall, no way I'll take it for granted though, things can change without anyone figuring out how or why. All of the models world-wide had Irma going up the west coast of FL, Residents of the Tampa area evacuated to Orlando to try and avoid the worst of it. They wound up evacuating INTO the worst of it!. As I watched it make landfall, (as predicted, in Naples) and the hours ticked by, I was like a golfer leaning to one side trying to "will" an errant shot into play. Finally around 9:00PM the local forecasters had to admit they dun goofed and drew a line right up the middle of FL. It seems that interaction with land is poorly understood as far as storm track is concerned.
 

lsd

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2000
1,184
70
91
Yea, I just got through looking at weather underground, it seems Jose has left a hole in the typical Bermuda High that usually lingers out in the mid-Atlantic this time of year. Maria is expected to move into this spot vs an east-coast landfall, no way I'll take it for granted though, things can change without anyone figuring out how or why. All of the models world-wide had Irma going up the west coast of FL, Residents of the Tampa area evacuated to Orlando to try and avoid the worst of it. They wound up evacuating INTO the worst of it!. As I watched it make landfall, (as predicted, in Naples) and the hours ticked by, I was like a golfer leaning to one side trying to "will" an errant shot into play. Finally around 9:00PM the local forecasters had to admit they dun goofed and drew a line right up the middle of FL. It seems that interaction with land is poorly understood as far as storm track is concerned.
I think some areas in Orlando got hit worse than others. I'm right on the east shore of east lake toho and the damage isn't too bad. The most damage was blown out vinyl fences and some smaller trees uprooted. I think the pines we have here hold up much better than the oaks in some other areas. We had power back within a day but I know a couple people in other areas who didn't have power until at least last friday. I also know some lucky people who didn't lose power at all! Was definitely a interesting experience vs Matthew last year. I think we are in for it the next few years so I ordered a generator and a small a/c unit.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I think some areas in Orlando got hit worse than others. I'm right on the east shore of east lake toho and the damage isn't too bad. The most damage was blown out vinyl fences and some smaller trees uprooted. I think the pines we have here hold up much better than the oaks in some other areas. We had power back within a day but I know a couple people in other areas who didn't have power until at least last friday. I also know some lucky people who didn't lose power at all! Was definitely a interesting experience vs Matthew last year. I think we are in for it the next few years so I ordered a generator and a small a/c unit.
Yea, Matthew should have been mostly TS force winds in Orlando vs the 95MPH we saw here. Interestingly none of my tree's succumbed to Mathew's 95 but one fell on my house + 2 more had the tops snapped off during Irma. The local paper said we saw 70 MPH straight-line wind with gust's to 85 but I'm not sure how accurate that actually is. It's possible that the prolonged length of wind+ the generous pelting of rain followed by the wind changing direction caused more mayhem than Mathew's SE direction (and much shorter duration).
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Attended a special meeting of the board this evening. The purpose was to discuss what had transpired, what was done and what was learned. The board had contracted with the lawn care people four days prior to Irma arriving for cleanup. That meant we were first in line. Very, very smart. Unfortunately, the head of the board (and he appears to be the brains behind all of this) is stepping down after having accepted a full time gig elsewhere. It remains to be seen if whomever fills his shoes is up to any future tasks of this magnitude.

The place is pretty much beloved patriot and span. There are trees that need to come out, palm fronds that need trimming, etc. They basically at this point want to concentrate on making the development safe for everybody, their homes, their cars and their pets. Next up is assessing what trees need to be replaced and going through the legalities of who is on the hook to replace the trees that separated us from the trailer park next door. And I see the importance of this because the amount of Styrofoam, aluminum siding and roofing that came into our development is ginormous. There has to be a buffer in place before the next hurricane. There is at least a mile of aluminum fencing (looks like wrought iron) that needs to be replaced. Storm drains must be cleaned out. Light poles repaired or replaced. Street signs and stop signs to be replaced. Repairs to the clubhouse, the guard shacks, the access gates and more. The list is a long one and the few I have listed are what I can remember.

It was pointed out to us that replacing trees is going to take a long, long time. It may be measured in years. The reason is that the growers lost their stock in the hurricane. And stock can't be brought in from the other side of the state because the growers there lost their stock too.

And money is going to be an issue - obviously. They opened the meeting up for questions and comments and as would be expected, one guy said he wanted everything restored as was regardless of the expense and that he was willing to have a special assessment to make that happen. Thank goodness he's not one of the decision makers. Some people think in knee-jerk fashions with no concern for practicalities. The place will never be the same. Different, but not the same. That's reality.

Vendors are not bidding for work. They will only work on a per hour basis. If anyone doesn't like that, they will just go work for someone else that will accept it. They have people over a barrel in a sense but with devastation of this magnitude, I don't see it being done any other way. I had a guy out to give me a price on some gutter work and he wanted half down in cash and said the work would be completed this week. When I told him that money wasn't changing hands until the work was completed, he looked at me like I was insane and left. I shed no tears.

Anyway, because of the foresight of the board we are head and shoulders above most of the communities in the area from a cleanup perspective. The man on site from the management company says that none of the communities his company provides their services for in the area is even remotely near the level we are at. The head of the board has promised that there will be a written step-by-step of procedures to follow for the next hurricane. In other words this was all done by the seat of these people's pants. Pretty damned impressive.
 
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Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
Attended a special meeting of the board this evening. The purpose was to discuss what had transpired, what was done and what was learned. The board had contracted with the lawn care people four days prior to Irma arriving for cleanup. That meant we were first in line. Very, very smart.

Very, very fortunate. This is a major issue on our side of the State as 99% of the debris in Broward (Fort Lauderdale)/Palm Beach is still sitting alongside the street and might not be picked up for months at this rate (notwithstanding that we're in the most active part of hurricane season). The reason is that most towns here have contracts with debris haulers at set rates, with FEMA reimbursing them something like 75 - 90%. The problem with that is Miami does not have set rates, meaning that towns in Miami are offering 2x - 3x more than the set rates. Thus, every tree hauler in the State is now working in Miami because that's where the money is (and the towns don't care because FEMA is paying for most of it).

It's an eyesore and a danger to have piles and piles of debris everywhere you go. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's getting picked up anytime soon because... reasons (namely, government sucks).
 
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