Hurricane Katrina a Category 5 Hurricane!

[conjur]

Just spoke w/Dave. He's working on getting the cell towers up. One came up and all circuits went immediately busy.

The damage to the city is just amazing. Rebuilding may not happen.

And the shootings are the drug addicts. They're stealing guns and breaking into hospitals and drugstores to get drugs of any type. They're also in the Baton Rouge area, breaking into cars, etc.

Fvcking mayhem.

This is beyond anything the city and/or the state can handle. The feds really need to be in on this and it's almost to the point where the military should be in.

But, the Superdome and the Convention Ctr. are almost empty now. That's a good thing...I suppose.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: conjur
WTF?!?!??!


http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Encourage others to come into the city? WTF?!? Why would anyone go INTO the city knowing it's underwater and has no food/water? If they're OUT of the city then they have access to food/water!


Something smells worse than what the Superdome must smell like!

Oh I can believe it. They've been telling people on the news for 2 days now that they shouldn't return, especially to St. Tammany. People are so desperate to get to their houses to see what they're like and collect some remaining possessions, that they're coming in, running out of gas, and getting stuck in the NO area just like everyone else. For the people who weren't stranded in NO in the first place, there's a very strong desire to get back, and many of these people don't realize what the situation's like. It's a very real concern.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: Rogue
Look, if we're gonna blame someone here, where exactly is the Chief of Police? The Fire Chief/Commissioner? The Governor screwed the pooch on the National Guard movement, the Governor is in charge of the state's NG forces last I checked. What about the General in charge of the National Guard? What the hell is he/she doing right now? We have tornadoes all the time here in Kansas and the Kansas National Guard is there almost immediately. There were a number of planning and coordination failures here and it seems to me that the primary problems reside with the city and the state itself. My perception is that the mayor and the Governor sat back and waited for the feds to show up and when they didn't they started bitching. All the while, they were providing no leadership with regards to their local resources and government bodies to make things happen. The capital of Louisiana is Baton Rouge, right? How bad are they affected? Why isn't command and control coming out of there? Our government is a tiered command not unlike the US Army. If the General dies, the Colonel takes charge. If he dies, the Company Commander takes charge. If he dies, the First Sergeant takes charge and down the line it goes. There were failures all along that chain of command, and they start at the top of the Louisiana government.

If for one single second a member of the LA state government went to their own home and ate or slept or talked on the phone to a single family member NOT affected by this, then they have failed as an elected official, pure and simple. Too many of you are intent on blaming someone and your hatred of our President and his staff shows through like a spotlight through a napkin. I'm here to tell you, there should be a number of elected officials at the state level and within the National Guard who are reprimanded, admonished or otherwise impeached for this action. There's a reason this is called the United States, each state stands on it's own, but are united for the cause. If the state can't stand on it's own, that's the state government's fault. I'm am sick and god damned tired of the blame game. I've laid out the list of people to blame in this disaster and that's the last I'll speak of it.

I said it once and I'll say it again, the state is the one fvking up here, period. The General in charge of the Louisiana National Guard, in conjunction with direction from the Governor are failing these people. It has nothing to do with FEMA or the feds at this point. The Governor and his government are flounding at every turn. I can only hope that someone will come to listen to my message here.

wow, you are one to speak. the governor is a she and not a he.

Oh, I guess my whole message is invalid because of that mistake, right? You're funny. I think I know more about contingency operations and handling disasters than you do. That's not just the internet talking either.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: conjur
WTF?!?!??!


http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Encourage others to come into the city? WTF?!? Why would anyone go INTO the city knowing it's underwater and has no food/water? If they're OUT of the city then they have access to food/water!


Something smells worse than what the Superdome must smell like!

Oh I can believe it. They've been telling people on the news for 2 days now that they shouldn't return, especially to St. Tammany. People are so desperate to get to their houses to see what they're like and collect some remaining possessions, that they're coming in, running out of gas, and getting stuck in the NO area just like everyone else. For the people who weren't stranded in NO in the first place, there's a very strong desire to get back, and many of these people don't realize what the situation's like. It's a very real concern.

The people can be blocked from coming back into the city rather easily. There's only one way into the city...I-10 from the west. The southbound causeway is damaged and the twin span is gone.

Also, here's some more detail:
http://dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/2125/04978

Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans.
by SteveRose
Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 18:02:05 PDT
My first diary! This whole week has been so depressing. My Red Cross donation was one bright spot. At least I had done something to help.

Then, after reading dKos and the other blogs all week and seeing over and over again comments that that FEMA and the NG were no where to be seen from the people on the ground in NO, I was wondering where the Red Cross was in all this. They were never mentioned. It was like they didn't exist. And, after yesterday's drama at the convention center, the Brown and Chertoff lies, the Red Cross was still MIA. Then, earlier today, I saw a note that the Red Cross was not allowed to enter NO. Hmm, that's doesn't make sense. This simmered for a couple hours.

So I called the Red Cross and asked them if its true....

updated to more blatant title.

SteveRose's diary :: ::
And, to my surprise, the nice lady answering the phone said it was true and they told/asked/ordered not to enter NO. She then went right into her spiel about all the other work the Red Cross was doing across the region. I said that's nice, but I still didn't understand why they weren't in NO. To my amazement, she patiently explained it to me. I even called back to verify what she said. This time she asked if I was media, I said no, just a concerned and confused contributor.

So here goes: Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn't want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: "The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn't get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying". (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.

In closing, I asked if she asked this question before since she was very familiar with the answer she gave. She said yes. And I promised another donation. Which they will get after this post.

So, the question for Bushies, why was the Red Cross banned from NO when they knew people were starving? Could it be they were saving the convention center rescue until Bush's visit today? It certainly seems like it. Doesn't it?

Red Cross National Affairs number (202-303-5551)

Something smells.....BADLY.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: Rogue

Originally posted by: Rogue
Look, if we're gonna blame someone here, where exactly is the Chief of Police? The Fire Chief/Commissioner? The Governor screwed the pooch on the National Guard movement, the Governor is in charge of the state's NG forces last I checked. What about the General in charge of the National Guard? What the hell is he/she doing right now? We have tornadoes all the time here in Kansas and the Kansas National Guard is there almost immediately. There were a number of planning and coordination failures here and it seems to me that the primary problems reside with the city and the state itself. My perception is that the mayor and the Governor sat back and waited for the feds to show up and when they didn't they started bitching. All the while, they were providing no leadership with regards to their local resources and government bodies to make things happen. The capital of Louisiana is Baton Rouge, right? How bad are they affected? Why isn't command and control coming out of there? Our government is a tiered command not unlike the US Army. If the General dies, the Colonel takes charge. If he dies, the Company Commander takes charge. If he dies, the First Sergeant takes charge and down the line it goes. There were failures all along that chain of command, and they start at the top of the Louisiana government.

If for one single second a member of the LA state government went to their own home and ate or slept or talked on the phone to a single family member NOT affected by this, then they have failed as an elected official, pure and simple. Too many of you are intent on blaming someone and your hatred of our President and his staff shows through like a spotlight through a napkin. I'm here to tell you, there should be a number of elected officials at the state level and within the National Guard who are reprimanded, admonished or otherwise impeached for this action. There's a reason this is called the United States, each state stands on it's own, but are united for the cause. If the state can't stand on it's own, that's the state government's fault. I'm am sick and god damned tired of the blame game. I've laid out the list of people to blame in this disaster and that's the last I'll speak of it.

I said it once and I'll say it again, the state is the one fvking up here, period. The General in charge of the Louisiana National Guard, in conjunction with direction from the Governor are failing these people. It has nothing to do with FEMA or the feds at this point. The Governor and his government are flounding at every turn. I can only hope that someone will come to listen to my message here.

wow, you are one to speak. the governor is a she and not a he.

Oh, I guess my whole message is invalid because of that mistake, right? You're funny. I think I know more about contingency operations and handling disasters than you do. That's not just the internet talking either.

Cool your jets Rogue. If you want to start fighting with Conjur, start placing blame, or otherwise delve in to politicy stuff, please take it to P&N. We're trying to keep this thread clear of that due to the propensity of such threads to descend in to anarchy. Thanks. :beer:

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: conjur
WTF?!?!??!


http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Encourage others to come into the city? WTF?!? Why would anyone go INTO the city knowing it's underwater and has no food/water? If they're OUT of the city then they have access to food/water!


Something smells worse than what the Superdome must smell like!

Oh I can believe it. They've been telling people on the news for 2 days now that they shouldn't return, especially to St. Tammany. People are so desperate to get to their houses to see what they're like and collect some remaining possessions, that they're coming in, running out of gas, and getting stuck in the NO area just like everyone else. For the people who weren't stranded in NO in the first place, there's a very strong desire to get back, and many of these people don't realize what the situation's like. It's a very real concern.

The people can be blocked from coming back into the city rather easily. There's only one way into the city...I-10 from the west. The southbound causeway is damaged and the twin span is gone.

Also, here's some more detail:
http://dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/2125/04978

Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans.
by SteveRose
Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 18:02:05 PDT
My first diary! This whole week has been so depressing. My Red Cross donation was one bright spot. At least I had done something to help.

Then, after reading dKos and the other blogs all week and seeing over and over again comments that that FEMA and the NG were no where to be seen from the people on the ground in NO, I was wondering where the Red Cross was in all this. They were never mentioned. It was like they didn't exist. And, after yesterday's drama at the convention center, the Brown and Chertoff lies, the Red Cross was still MIA. Then, earlier today, I saw a note that the Red Cross was not allowed to enter NO. Hmm, that's doesn't make sense. This simmered for a couple hours.

So I called the Red Cross and asked them if its true....

updated to more blatant title.

SteveRose's diary :: ::
And, to my surprise, the nice lady answering the phone said it was true and they told/asked/ordered not to enter NO. She then went right into her spiel about all the other work the Red Cross was doing across the region. I said that's nice, but I still didn't understand why they weren't in NO. To my amazement, she patiently explained it to me. I even called back to verify what she said. This time she asked if I was media, I said no, just a concerned and confused contributor.

So here goes: Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn't want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: "The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn't get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying". (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.

In closing, I asked if she asked this question before since she was very familiar with the answer she gave. She said yes. And I promised another donation. Which they will get after this post.

So, the question for Bushies, why was the Red Cross banned from NO when they knew people were starving? Could it be they were saving the convention center rescue until Bush's visit today? It certainly seems like it. Doesn't it?

Red Cross National Affairs number (202-303-5551)

Something smells.....BADLY.

You're right, something does seem odd about that, though I'm not one to buy in to conspiracy theories. I would be surprised if it were anything more than miscommunication and coincidence, though I'm sure this won't be the last we hear of this.

 

[ViRGE]

So we're starting to see some of the first long-term college cancellations. WWL says Tulane(a private Uni in NO) has canceled for the fall semester, which is bad timing considering that their semester(and those of many other similar universities) just recently started. I know some Unis are taking in displaced students because of this, but that's largely public institutions, so it'll be interesting to see what the private schools do.

 

[conjur]

And someone tried to contact DHS to confirm. Check out this conversation:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/3/02454/07418

DHS will not 'confirm' Red Cross story.
by shock
Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 at 21:24:54 PDT

I just called the Dept. of Homeland security (202-282-8000) and asked them the following question:

"Is it true what the American Red Cross has reported that they have not been allowed into the city of New Orleans by the DHS since Hurricane Katrina because their 'presence would keep people from evacuating'"?

First, they put me on hold. Then I heard 2 beeps and the click that I assume means they were recording me. Then they asked me my name. (I told them, but now I sort of regret it...) Then they transferred me to Chris at the "Law Enforcement Fusion Desk". I read my question again.

(More.)

* shock's diary :: ::
*

Note: This isn't a verbatim transcript -- I'm paraphrasing. I wasn't smart enough to record the call. But I just called them and this is what happened to the best of my recollection.

He said he hadn't heard this, so I pointed him to the Red Cross FAQ page link that was posted on this diary. I directed his attention to the second bullet.

He said something to the effect that their policy is trying to help get people out and that this is why they don't want more people coming in. (***)

I said I understood that, but that it didn't make sense to let people starve or die of thirst in the meantime.

He responded that this wasn't happening. That as soon as they pick somebody up, they take them out of there.

I argued with him and told him this wasn't true, that it had been on CNN that people had been being picked up and put down at the convention center where there was no food or water.

He said that all he could tell me was that they were picking people up and taking them out of there.... that their policy was to help the people.

Then I asked who at the DHS was responsible for the policy that kept the Red Cross out.

He said that would have to be Michael Chertoff.

I asked him for his own name and position again and then asked if I could make this public that the DHS was confirming what was on the Red Cross website.

Silence.

After a few seconds I asked if he was there and he said "yeah," and then nothing else.

So I asked my question again and he said "No".

Silence.

I asked why he had said no to me, and rather than answer me, he asked me what I wanted to do with the information.

I said I wanted to email it to my friends and put it on a blog. I think I heard him scoff at this, but I'm not sure.

I asked him again why I couldn't disseminate it and he said he didn't know who I was. Then he asked me directly who I was and why I wanted to know.

I told him that I was a citizen and I wanted to know because I actually gave a fvck about the people of New Orleans. (I was pissed by now because he was patronizing me and he had already lied to me.)

He said they did too.

I said something like "so you won't confirm what the American Red Cross is reporting then?", to which he said something like "no". (It was short.)

I asked why not and he asked me why I wanted to post it.

At this point I lost my temper and went on a little tirade. I said (something like) "because it's a stupid fvcking policy! And people have died because of it. And if Michael Chertoff is responsible, people should be made aware of that. And if you and he think it's a good policy, you should be willing to stand by it and take responsibility for it!" (There was more swearing in there too, but I can't remember exactly what now. I was very pissed. At this point in the conversation, my wife, who was in the room, about fell out of her chair and started motioning to me to shut up.)

After a few seconds of silence, I asked again, so you can't confirm this?

And he said "no".

So I asked who at DHS could.

He told me to call back and talk to the public affairs office on the same number (202-282-8000, although they transferred me to him, so I don't know if that's really his number), but that they wouldn't be back until Tuesday.

I am so pissed right now. If Chertoff really did order this, his head should be served up (Cajun style) on a platter to the mayor of New Orleans.

P.S. When I hung up the phone, the first thing my wife said to me was, "Great. Now you'll be drafted for sure!"

Update [2005-9-3 1:8:41 by shock]: (***) IMO, this is the crucial point of the dialog. I wish I had recorded it so I could tell you exactly what he said. But my recollection is strong that he actually admitted the policy here and was trying to defend it to me.

 

[ViRGE]

So Google's starting to integrate Digital Globe's high-res images from August 31st into Google Maps. If you look at NO, there's a big red "Katrina" button that will show you the new sat image, very handy for seeing just how different a specific place has become.

 

[loup garou]

Conjur..Rogue...both of you, please, don't let this thread degenerate. I've already lost my patience in other threads both in OT and P&N. AnandTech forums are an incredibly stressful place to be when you have a personal stake in this tragedy and so far I've considered this thread my oasis.

We're doing so well in this thread, sharing information, being supportive of the victims of this tragedy...now that some (thank goodness) somewhat good news is starting to come out of NO, let's continue to focus on the people!

Let's focus on what's going on getting help to people in Plaquemines, Tammany, and for goodness' sakes, WTF is going on along the rest of the Gulf Coast. Last I saw, Mobile had an oil rig stuck under a freakin' bridge. There were 5 story barges sitting on top of peoples' homes across the highway in Mississippi. Where is the national media on that? Plaquemines' representatives are saying they haven't even spoken to anyone from FEMA. WTF is that about? How about some updates from St. Bernard? NOLA is where my heart lies, but really, I don't want to see thousands of others ignored because it's the media spotlight! Let's find some info on what's going on in those areas, and if we can't, let's make some noise about getting attention to those areas!!!

 

[tigerbait]

My bro-in-law was able to go into town today on his way to work at the hospital. just found out my house in Metairie had 10 inches of water and my fence is no more. not too bad considering some people had 10 feet. He said there are power lines and large trees down everywhere. I am anxious to get down there and collect some belongings...we left really fast, and so much was left behind.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: werk
Last I saw, Mobile had an oil rig stuck under a freakin' bridge.

FYI, the rig has already been removed and secured elsewhere.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: tigerbait
My bro-in-law was able to go into town today on his way to work at the hospital. just found out my house in Metairie had 10 inches of water and my fence is no more. not too bad considering some people had 10 feet. He said there are power lines and large trees down everywhere. I am anxious to get down there and collect some belongings...we left really fast, and so much was left behind.

Crap, I can't believe I forgot to add this.

One of my friends managed to get into to the Uptown area yesterday (came across the Huey), his house is across Broadway from Tulane. About 3 ft of water on the ground (none in their house). No looting to speak of except the RiteAid the media was reporting about down the street from his house...forklift used to open shutters to get in...he said people were calm and collected, grabbing food and drinks, toilet paper and diapers.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: werk
Last I saw, Mobile had an oil rig stuck under a freakin' bridge.

FYI, the rig has already been removed and secured elsewhere.

Thanks, this is the sort of info we need in this thread! :thumbsup:

 

[ViRGE]

CNN: Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour raises the official death toll from Hurricane Katrina in the state to 147. That number is expected to rise as recovery efforts continue.

 

[Mill]

Been out of the loop minus the earlier cop video because of my own personal tragedy today. I've read some of the news outlets, but just trying to get a real update.

What's the word on the Convention center? I saw that Police Superintendent went down there, but has the military or buses made it there yet?

I wish we could get more info out of Gulfport/Biloxi. I realize the situation in NOLA is current and developing, but I'm trying to figure out what is going on down there and what went on. I've heard that there are some pretty decent size towns and cities that are simply uninhabitable and/or GONE.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Mill
Been out of the loop minus the earlier cop video because of my own personal tragedy today. I've read some of the news outlets, but just trying to get a real update.

What's the word on the Convention center? I saw that Police Superintendent went down there, but has the military or buses made it there yet?

I believe they're evacuating it right now.

 

[Zebo]

Nagin 08' need more pols like this.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nagin 08' need more pols like this.

We already have enough Pols that whine and dont do anything.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nagin 08' need more pols like this.

We already have enough Pols that whine and dont do anything.

*bangs head against wall*

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nagin 08' need more pols like this.

We already have enough Pols that whine and dont do anything.

*bangs head against wall*

You and me both, man, you and me both...

 

[tbrooks40]

i just wanted to second the sentiments of another poster a few spots back... you guys are doing an incredible job - i'm very impressed and thankful for the amount of information you guys are getting in here!

not a bunch of hearsay but actual facts of things taking place... it's unbelievable how some major networks either don't have the facts are don't care to report the whole, unspun story!

hell, i very rarely watch television anymore and i'm sure this has a lot to do with it.

Conjur, i believe it was you that linked us to the incomprehensible story about FEMA refusing aid from Canada and denying the Red Cross access to ground zero. Thank you.

When you consider this and the fact that they did everything they could to keep the media from getting access to what was really happening I'm convinced there was something much more sinister going on here!

"there will be wickedness in high places..."

 

[Eli]

ewww... look at this picture...

Look at the oil sheen....

 

[rh71]

.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Eli
ewww... look at this picture...

Look at the oil sheen....

Eeewwww..

BTW, NOAA's added more areas to their post-flooding sat. images:
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM

WWL reporting that St. Tammany is working on restoring power to critical customers (hospitals and the like)

Now reporting 3 firemen and 3 police officers are trapped on the Bellsouth building roof in New Orleans East...dehydrated...have been shot at.