Hydrogen and the future....WTF?

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: rgwalt

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I think the next major fuel is going to be alcohol. It's possible to get alcohol from fermenting and distilling various plant matter, which means it's renewable. We know how to make an engine run on alcohol (and we're damned good at it). It's concievably possible to make most vehicles run on alcohol with only minor modifications. (about what was required for the R12 -> R134a conversions)

Sure, we're still creating CO2, but then again, we'd also be making alot of things that suck up CO2, like plants. Last I checked, plants dig lots of CO2.

Currently there is some question as to the efficiency of using plant matter to create alcohol. In other words, it may take as much energy to farm the crops as you get out of the crops in the form of methanol/ethanol.

Long term there is really only two ways to go... solar and fusion. If we can get fusion working to the point where we have a virtually unlimited supply of energy, then we can make any hydrocarbon we want from plant matter. It may be inefficient, but who cares?

R

Yeah, but Doc OcK would get ahold of it and ruin the world...and spiderman is on sabaticle.

jC

 

[Armitage]

This has been beat to death in ATOT before:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...&keyword1=hydrogen
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...&keyword1=hydrogen
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...&keyword1=hydrogen
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...&keyword1=hydrogen
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...&keyword1=hydrogen

 

[Kyteland]

Unfortunately hydrogen as a fuel is really nothing more than a convenient transportation method for other forms of energy. The only way for us to generate hydrogen fuel is for us to use other energy sources to create it. Solar, wind, etc. simply don't provide enough energy (right now) to create the amount of hydrogen we require to replace our dependance on fossil fuels. The main advantage is that it not only burns clean when used, but it also localizes where we are generating our energy and is independant of the energy sourse used to create it. This means we can still continue to indirectly use fossil fuels in our cars (fossil->hydrogen->car) while we search for an alternate fuel source. When an alternate is found it is only a matter of upgrading te plants creating the hydrogen, instead of the above mentioned 218 million cars in America.

Hydrogen is not an alternate fuel source. It is only a better energy distribution method.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
nuclear energy to split water.

thats putting in more energy than what we can extract from burning the hydrogen.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
nuclear energy to split water.

thats putting in more energy than what we can extract from burning the hydrogen.

That is always the case ... extracting hydrogen, whether from water or hydrocarbons, is very inefficient. The question is whether the end result is more useful. Is a tank full of hydrogen more useful then the electricity used to produce it? More useful then the same energy stored in a battery in an electric vehicle?

And unless some big policy changes happen, nuclear power is not going to be a feasible way to generate hydrogen in the US for the simple reason that nuclear power plants are not being built here. Even if they were, cracking hydrocarbons is a more economical way to create hydrogen relative to electrolosys.