They ARE Christians if they believe, confess, repent and are baptised. Though they may be fallen Christians.
[edited due to past/present error]
They ARE Christians if they believe, confess, repent and are baptised. Though they may be fallen Christians.Originally posted by: EXman
how do christians get drunk, get high, have premarital sex, are homosexuals, swear on a regular basis, cheat, etc and still manage to call themselves christians and go to church every sunday?
They are not Christians (notice that the "C" is capitalized)
So they are not hypocritical Christians they are just fooling themselves and living in sin. It takes more than calling yourself a Christian to be one.
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Once saved, always saved is not taught in the Bible. Once saved Christians can fall away. Judas for example.Originally posted by: Jfur
Christians who sin are still Christians and are still saved. why? because all Christians sin. all people sin. sinning intentionally and sinning unintentionally ... its still sin. being a Christian doesn't give you the license to sin freely. that's ridiculous. the motive for living a more Christ-like life is to please God.
Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Once saved, always saved is not taught in the Bible. Once saved Christians can fall away. Judas for example.Originally posted by: udonoogen
Christians who sin are still Christians and are still saved. why? because all Christians sin. all people sin. sinning intentionally and sinning unintentionally ... its still sin. being a Christian doesn't give you the license to sin freely. that's ridiculous. the motive for living a more Christ-like life is to please God.
Can you please edit this -- I don't know how or why -- but that is
NOT my quote or my opinion :Q
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Exactly.
The whole point about the story of Onan (and subsequently, Onanism) was misconstrued. Masturbation, in itself, isn't inherently sinful. What Onan did wasn't masturbation, per se, it was actually just a method of "pulling out"; he did this out of selfish motivation (knowing the child borne would not be his), and not out of respect for God's command.
Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
However, there are passages that would point to some sort of sinfulness... "Therefore, honor God with your body" (1 Cor. 6:20), "...that each of you should learn to control his body in a way that is holy and honorable." (1 Thess. 4:4) When dealing with pornography or 'lustful thoughts' about women, the issue is fairly clear - that line of thought is wrong, from a Christian perspective. As to masturbation, the compromise I came to in my Christian days was that if masturbation was an issue that caused enough guilt to compromise my "walk with god", then I should attempt to curtail it.
Here are some more verses luvly to back up your point...they are on page 3 of this threadOriginally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
For the ones who think we are not to judge others.
ad·mon·ish
1) To reprove gently but earnestly.
2) To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
3) To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.
Matthew 7:1-5
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Definitions:
mote - a very small particle; a speck
beam - a squared-off log or a large, oblong piece of timber, metal, or stone used especially as a horizontal support in construction (in other words, a big log)
Often misinterpretted due to lack of context. Judge not, because you yourself will be judged as well. Taken in context it instructs to not judge someone for some small flaw they have (speck in their eye) while you yourself have much greater problems (log in your eye). It calls a person doing this a hypocrite, and instructs them to get rid of their own problems (cast out the beam out of thine own eye) and then they will be able to properly help the other fallen Christian. (see clearly help out your brother)
Note: when speaking of "brothers" throughout the New Testament it is refering to fellow Christians.
hmm, well that would certainly solve the problem...but then I guess the guy didn't read the verses stating that his body is God's temple.Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Exactly.
The whole point about the story of Onan (and subsequently, Onanism) was misconstrued. Masturbation, in itself, isn't inherently sinful. What Onan did wasn't masturbation, per se, it was actually just a method of "pulling out"; he did this out of selfish motivation (knowing the child borne would not be his), and not out of respect for God's command.
Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
However, there are passages that would point to some sort of sinfulness... "Therefore, honor God with your body" (1 Cor. 6:20), "...that each of you should learn to control his body in a way that is holy and honorable." (1 Thess. 4:4) When dealing with pornography or 'lustful thoughts' about women, the issue is fairly clear - that line of thought is wrong, from a Christian perspective. As to masturbation, the compromise I came to in my Christian days was that if masturbation was an issue that caused enough guilt to compromise my "walk with god", then I should attempt to curtail it.
Every so often I read about another guy who hacks off his penis in a fit because the Bible says "if thy hand or foot offend you, cut them off" and he couldn't control his masturbation or erections.
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
hmm, well that would certainly solve the problem...but then I guess the guy didn't read the verses stating that his body is God's temple.Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Exactly.
The whole point about the story of Onan (and subsequently, Onanism) was misconstrued. Masturbation, in itself, isn't inherently sinful. What Onan did wasn't masturbation, per se, it was actually just a method of "pulling out"; he did this out of selfish motivation (knowing the child borne would not be his), and not out of respect for God's command.
Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.
However, there are passages that would point to some sort of sinfulness... "Therefore, honor God with your body" (1 Cor. 6:20), "...that each of you should learn to control his body in a way that is holy and honorable." (1 Thess. 4:4) When dealing with pornography or 'lustful thoughts' about women, the issue is fairly clear - that line of thought is wrong, from a Christian perspective. As to masturbation, the compromise I came to in my Christian days was that if masturbation was an issue that caused enough guilt to compromise my "walk with god", then I should attempt to curtail it.
Every so often I read about another guy who hacks off his penis in a fit because the Bible says "if thy hand or foot offend you, cut them off" and he couldn't control his masturbation or erections.
They ARE Christians if they believed, confess, repented and were baptised. Though they may be fallen Christians.
I completely agree with you.Originally posted by: EXman
They ARE Christians if they believed, confess, repented and were baptised. Though they may be fallen Christians.
"Believed and repented" that is past tence but probably just an error on your part. Just because they were brought up Christian and were babtised as a small child does not make you a Christian. Yes Christians sin every day but leading a non-Christian life and fooling yourself that you are Christian isn't going to get you Heaven. Personally I have done the same thing in my life and I know now that I was just flat wrong. People who continue to sin everyday as weezergirl stated are hurting the church, themselves and making a mockery of the Christian Faith. Yes they are fallen Christians of course but unless they change thier lifestyle and not rationalize their sins it is to Hell they are going plain and simple.
you're welcome...just trying to help.Originally posted by: luvly
"Here are some more verses luvly to back up your point...they are on page 3 of this thread"
Thanks for reposting that, GtProjectX. I am familiar with some of those verses. I'll take note of the rest. Thanks.
Originally posted by: luvly
The story of the temple where Jesus cast out the sellers and buyers can be found in Matthew 21. Read verse 12 - 13 for this specific event. It can also be found in Luke 19:45.
By the way, even Jesus judged the Pharisees and Scribes. It sure wasn't the day of judgement yet. It seems to me that what Jesus couldn't stand was hypocrites.
Well, just the string that the people were honestly repenting, not just doing lip service.Originally posted by: jyates
His character was one of righteous anger and always willing to forgive without any strings attached.
Nope, he never turned a person away. But there was a parable of a man that came to him leaving still a sinner. For example, the parable of the rich man who wanted to know what else to do in his life to be saved. Jesus knew he was a rich man and had much love for his money, so he told him to sell all he had and follow him. But the man went away sad, b/c he knew he couldn't because he loved the money too much. In this case the man did everything to follow Jesus except that one thing, and it was that one thing that caused him not to be saved.Read the Gospels and find where a person who was a sinner approached Jesus and you'll never see him turn away anyone who came to him with a need.
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Well, just the string that the people were honestly repenting, not just doing lip service.Originally posted by: jyates
His character was one of righteous anger and always willing to forgive without any strings attached.Nope, he never turned a person away. But there was a parable of a man that came to him leaving still a sinner. For example, the parable of the rich man who wanted to know what else to do in his life to be saved. Jesus knew he was a rich man and had much love for his money, so he told him to sell all he had and follow him. But the man went away sad, b/c he knew he couldn't because he loved the money too much. In this case the man did everything to follow Jesus except that one thing, and it was that one thing that caused him not to be saved.Read the Gospels and find where a person who was a sinner approached Jesus and you'll never see him turn away anyone who came to him with a need.
[edit]I can't recall if this was a parable or an actual occurance. I'll need to look it up.[/edit]
Originally posted by: luvly
I hear you, Jyates. And I agree. However, here's what I extract from all examples of Jesus' stories: He took sinners who were repentful. Those sinners who wanted to live that kind of life continually, he left alone and judged. Every story of sinners, like Mary the prostitute, the Samaritan lady, the crowd that followed him, etc. and even his parables all had one commonality: People who were willing to repent and accepted that they were sinners were the people he embraced. I guess the only exception is the rich man's story. I too remember that story where Jesus said people would have to give up things and follow him. I think the rich man's story was a true story. I'm not very sure.
It would seem to me at the end that Jesus said, don't make the law your ruler, but don't purposely violate either. It seems to be a concept of don't operate as though the law were some rigid system and the only determinant of entering God's kingdom. Wouldn't it be a combination of your heart and your actions from what Jesus has said? So it brings in the faith and work argument. It seems to me that faith without work is dead, as said by James. Perhaps Jesus too mean work without faith and faith without work are both dead.
Edit: The story I have difficulty reconciling is Judas' story. He was sorry for what he did and returned the money to the Chiefs. Did not he? Yet, if I recall, Jesus said he would not see the kingdom of God.
The most important question there is.Originally posted by: przero
GtPrOjEcTX - How do you get to heaven?