hypocritical christians

"Sorry amore mio, but if by rules you mean rules like not drinking or having sex, I have to disagree. A religion IMO should be a spiritual way of life. "

Exactly my point. No law obliges you to conform to a belief system, at least in the USA and other democratic nations. So if you don't like the belief system, don't try to alter its foundation by professing to believe in it but practicing contrary to it. Formulate your belief system that satisfies you spiritually.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Geez. Onan wasn't masturbating!!! He got killed for not doing what God had commanded him to do.

I thought God commanded him to not masturbate...

No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

 

[udonoogen]

Originally posted by: luvly
"Sorry amore mio, but if by rules you mean rules like not drinking or having sex, I have to disagree. A religion IMO should be a spiritual way of life. "

Exactly my point. No law obliges you to conform to a belief system, at least in the USA and other democratic nations. So if you don't like the belief system, don't try to alter its foundation by professing to believe in it but practicing contrary to it. Formulate your belief system that satisfies you spiritually.

all roads do not lead to rome. all truths are not true. if a truth that says it is the only truth ... if it is right ... it would follow that all the other truths are wrong. either one is right ... or they are all wrong. they cannot all be true. that is why moral relativism does not work. i hope i did not confuse you. i just confused myself writing it (but i think it makes sense now)

edit: to make the confuse less confuse

 

[Sophia]

To address the original question....

In a word: pride

However, I'll also offer the following.

Some people say that faith develops in stages, and high school/college/young adulthood is, for many, the "crisis of faith" and/or "Mama's not here to make me go to church" phase. It's also a time when many leave their respective churches. Maybe they really are questioning their faith. There is a huge transition to be made between believing in something because you've been taught to believe it and doing so because it becomes something you truly believe. My church says not to do X, but I like doing X. What do I do? Who am I really going to be? I think for some people that transition can be a bit of a "mess." Spiritual development is often called a journey.

All Christians do things that are un-Christian. Is it a phase or stage in faith development? Or are they actually in the process of rejecting their religion (first by action, later by name)? Or do they simply claim to see the sin in others and not in themselves? I wouldn't presume to know.

 

[Pastore]

Originally posted by: udonoogen

Originally posted by: luvly
"Sorry amore mio, but if by rules you mean rules like not drinking or having sex, I have to disagree. A religion IMO should be a spiritual way of life. "

Exactly my point. No law obliges you to conform to a belief system, at least in the USA and other democratic nations. So if you don't like the belief system, don't try to alter its foundation by professing to believe in it but practicing contrary to it. Formulate your belief system that satisfies you spiritually.

all roads do not lead to rome. all truths are not true. if a truth that says it is the only truth ... if it is right ... it would follow that all the other truths are wrong. either one is right ... or they are all wrong. they cannot all be true. that is why moral relativism does not work. i hope i did not confuse you. i just confused myself writing it (but i think it makes sense now)

edit: to make the confuse less confuse

"There are 3 sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth." Gary Cherone

 

"all roads do not lead to rome. all truths are not true. if a truth that says it is the only truth is right, all the other truths are wrong. either one is right ... or they are all wrong. that is why moral relativism does not work. i hope i did not confuse you. i just confused myself writing it (but i think it makes sense now)"

Again my point. People who live contrary to a belief system but profess to be of such belief and try to alter it to suit them are promoting moral relativism. If you believe in an abstract truth, then it is not alterable. A realist doesn't alter truth. He discovers truth. If you alter truth, then you invalidate the concept of abstract truth. And it simply leads to moral relativism.

 

[ElDonAntonio]

Originally posted by: luvly
"Sorry amore mio, but if by rules you mean rules like not drinking or having sex, I have to disagree. A religion IMO should be a spiritual way of life. "

Exactly my point. No law obliges you to conform to a belief system, at least in the USA and other democratic nations. So if you don't like the belief system, don't try to alter its foundation by professing to believe in it but practicing contrary to it. Formulate your belief system that satisfies you spiritually.

Sorry luvly, I'm not quite sure I understand you (my apologies if I'm slow tonight, I've been studying one BORING topic since a few hours...). Are you saying *I* am "professing to believe in a religion but practicing contrary to it"? or are you talking about the people the original poster is referring to?
In either case, who do you consider most being a christian? someone who goes to church, doesn't drink etc, or someone who skips church, drinks, has sex, but respects Jesus' fundamental human values?

 

[udonoogen]

Originally posted by: luvly
"all roads do not lead to rome. all truths are not true. if a truth that says it is the only truth is right, all the other truths are wrong. either one is right ... or they are all wrong. that is why moral relativism does not work. i hope i did not confuse you. i just confused myself writing it (but i think it makes sense now)"

Again my point. People who live contrary to a belief system but profess to be of such belief and try to alter it to suit them are promoting moral relativism. If you believe in an abstract truth, then it is not alterable. A realist doesn't alter truth. He discovers truth. If you alter truth, then you invalidate the concept of abstract truth. And it simply leads to moral relativism.

then we agree. i like it when people agree with me. =)

 

"Are you saying *I* am 'professing to believe in a religion but practicing contrary to it'? or are you talking about the people the original poster is referring to?
In either case, who do you consider most being a christian? someone who goes to church, doesn't drink etc, or someone who skips church, drinks, has sex, but respects Jesus' fundamental human values?"

No, I would never refer to an individual particularly in discussions of this nature. I am speaking generically when I say "you". I don't know whether it applies to your life in particular.

I shall decline to answer your question, at least as you wish it. Why? Because it's a false dichotomy. And really, from all signs in the Bible, people's conducts aren't gauged quantitatively. A thief is measurable to a killer, a prostitute, etc. So measuring who's less of the two evils or good is creating a false dilemma.

It is really not for me to speak for Christianity. I suppose the Bible exists for a purpose. The books of Corinthians and other books make statements about conducts of such nature. And frankly, if I were to really answer that question according to the Bible, I'll run into contradictions. I'm not one to reconcile things in the teachings of Christianity and consistency. So I won't be diving into the intimate aspects. I'll try to stay at the surface.

 

[StormRider]

No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

Why did God want him to have sex with someone? That seems kind of strange to me. Was it to produce children?

 

[MonkOnXanax]

Originally posted by: StormRider

No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

Why did God want him to have sex with someone? That seems kind of strange to me. Was it to produce children?

he hadn't invented porn yet.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: weezergirl
how do christians get drunk, get high, have premarital sex, are homosexuals, swear on a regular basis, cheat, etc and still manage to call themselves christians and go to church every sunday?

I don't do those things, but Jesus Christ died for our sins. You can do those things and still be saved.

Here I disagree. Yes, we can't be perfect, and we need his grace to get salvation but unless you're making an effort to be a good person I don't think that he'll cover you. If you're christian on sundays and then out doing everything that the bible tells you not too how do you even argue that you really believe in it?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: udonoogen

Originally posted by: weezergirl
Ok, I'm getting conflicting views on christianity here. One group of christians agrees with me, the other group does not. which is right?

in other words, what exactly does it mean to be christian?

being a Christian is trusting Jesus Christ for your salvation. it's accepting the fact that you mess up and that you need forgiveness in order to be redeemed. Christianity isn't about a system of do's and don'ts. you don't get grace by these means. grace is only from God ... and it is a free gift. =) hope that helps

Yup, except for 2 laws: 1) Love God 2) Love your neighbour as yourself. Everything else falls into the category of wise living, not must do or burn in Hell.

 

[Jfur]

duplicate

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: MonkOnXanax

Originally posted by: StormRider

No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

Why did God want him to have sex with someone? That seems kind of strange to me. Was it to produce children?

he hadn't invented porn yet.

to impregnate his brother's wife. because he refused, God killed him.

 

[dugweb]

Hypocrytical Christians

Weezergirl, the "christians" you were reffering too are just like any of us. They have natural desires that if heeded to will result in a down-ward spiral of traditional Christian belief. Essentially christians believe in putting off the "natural man" and thus coming closer to Christ.

Although, regardless of how your "christain" friends were acting who are you to judge them? You have no idea what there personal circumstances are or problems they are dealing with. Instead of worrying about the example put out by these people, you obviously do not want to be like, look to the example of your christian friends you said you respect for their ways of life.

Take the role of being the example rather than being a critic.

 

[ElDonAntonio]

Originally posted by: JudistPriest

Hypocrytical Christians

Weezergirl, the "christians" you were reffering too are just like any of us. They have natural desires that if heeded to will result in a down-ward spiral of traditional Christian belief. Essentially christians believe in putting off the "natural man" and thus coming closer to Christ.

Although, regardless of how your "christain" friends were acting who are you to judge them? You have no idea what there personal circumstances are or problems they are dealing with. Instead of worrying about the example put out by these people, you obviously do not want to be like, look to the example of your christian friends you said you respect for their ways of life.

Take the role of being the example rather than being a critic.

nicely said!

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Jfur

Originally posted by: MonkOnXanax

Originally posted by: StormRider

No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

Why did God want him to have sex with someone? That seems kind of strange to me. Was it to produce children?

he hadn't invented porn yet.

to impregnate his brother's wife. because he refused, God killed him.

Exactly.

The whole point about the story of Onan (and subsequently, Onanism) was misconstrued. Masturbation, in itself, isn't inherently sinful. What Onan did wasn't masturbation, per se, it was actually just a method of "pulling out"; he did this out of selfish motivation (knowing the child borne would not be his), and not out of respect for God's command.

Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

However, there are passages that would point to some sort of sinfulness... "Therefore, honor God with your body" (1 Cor. 6:20), "...that each of you should learn to control his body in a way that is holy and honorable." (1 Thess. 4:4) When dealing with pornography or 'lustful thoughts' about women, the issue is fairly clear - that line of thought is wrong, from a Christian perspective. As to masturbation, the compromise I came to in my Christian days was that if masturbation was an issue that caused enough guilt to compromise my "walk with god", then I should attempt to curtail it.

 

[CarpeDeo]

Doesn't like 75% of America identify themselves as Christians?

 

[weezergirl]

Originally posted by: JudistPriest

Hypocrytical Christians

Weezergirl, the "christians" you were reffering too are just like any of us. They have natural desires that if heeded to will result in a down-ward spiral of traditional Christian belief. Essentially christians believe in putting off the "natural man" and thus coming closer to Christ.

Although, regardless of how your "christain" friends were acting who are you to judge them? You have no idea what there personal circumstances are or problems they are dealing with. Instead of worrying about the example put out by these people, you obviously do not want to be like, look to the example of your christian friends you said you respect for their ways of life.

Take the role of being the example rather than being a critic.

That's funny that you mention that I shoudln't judge when I find that christians are the most judgemental people of all. But you are right, I shouldn't judge. If you knew me in real life I usually am the LAST to judge anybody. One of the things I most understand is that you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes. But yeah, like I said I do have friends like this, I'm still their friend, I dont' think they are any less of a person, but I do find it funny that they can call themselves christians and act this way. Its just an observation I've made and I can't help but call it the way I see it. It may surprise you that my boyfriend is christian, he's definitely not perfect though, he's dating me, right?

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: CarpeDeo
Doesn't like 75% of America identify themselves as Christians?

of some form, or culturally, but that has dropped ~10% over the last decade

 

[dugweb]

Origionally posted by Weezergirl

One of the things I most understand is that you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes

I dissagree, even if you did walk in their shoes you would still be an impartial judge because of your imperfections. Christ was the only perfect being on earth thus making him the only possible judge. As for the hypocricy issue, the standards required to live in the presence of God are such that none could attain them with out the repentance and use of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

If you choose to veiw that as hypocricy than that is exactly what it is, although I choose to view it as imperfection.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: JudistPriest
Origionally posted by Weezergirl

One of the things I most understand is that you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes

I dissagree, even if you did walk in their shoes you would still be an impartial judge because of your imperfections. Christ was the only perfect being on earth thus making him the only possible judge. As for the hypocricy issue, the standards required to live in the presence of God are such that none could attain them with out the repentance and use of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

If you choose to veiw that as hypocricy than that is exactly what it is, although I choose to view it as imperfection.

Basically, you are telling me that just because you have accepted this Jesus person into your life, you are can still do the same things without any recourse. Sounds more like an excuse to me.

 

[dugweb]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: JudistPriest
Origionally posted by Weezergirl

One of the things I most understand is that you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes

I dissagree, even if you did walk in their shoes you would still be an impartial judge because of your imperfections. Christ was the only perfect being on earth thus making him the only possible judge. As for the hypocricy issue, the standards required to live in the presence of God are such that none could attain them with out the repentance and use of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

If you choose to veiw that as hypocricy than that is exactly what it is, although I choose to view it as imperfection.

Basically, you are telling me that just because you have accepted this Jesus person into your life, you are can still do the same things without any recourse. Sounds more like an excuse to me.

I'm talking about christianity as a whole. The recourse you are referring to is your eternal salvation which is a much more personel subject to me and to everyone. I believe we will be given degrees of glory based on our works in this life to live eternity in the afterlife

 

[DiamondJ]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: JudistPriest
Origionally posted by Weezergirl

One of the things I most understand is that you can't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes

I dissagree, even if you did walk in their shoes you would still be an impartial judge because of your imperfections. Christ was the only perfect being on earth thus making him the only possible judge. As for the hypocricy issue, the standards required to live in the presence of God are such that none could attain them with out the repentance and use of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

If you choose to veiw that as hypocricy than that is exactly what it is, although I choose to view it as imperfection.

Basically, you are telling me that just because you have accepted this Jesus person into your life, you are can still do the same things without any recourse. Sounds more like an excuse to me.

Her209,

By accepting "this Jesus person" in your life you have all the more reason to do or refrain from doing particular things because if you have really accepted him you will realize that you want to be with Him for eternity after death, and will realize that the "recourse" you speak of is eternal seperation from Him.

Judist,

I like what you have to say.

I would just like to add that only by sin are we capable of Redemption. Without the sins we unfortunately commit we wouldn't need God for anything because we would already be in a perfect state. God doesn't look upon our sins with the least bit of allowance, but he has made provisions for us to turn back to him. It's called repentance. It is our means of achieving Redemption through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is the only way to achieve mercy from the clutches of justice.