hypocritical christians

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NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
It is not required that you be baptised to receive salvation. Baptism is a public proclaimation and an external step of faith.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
-Acts 16:31

You can be baptised and be saved.
You can be non-baptised and be saved.
You can be baptised (the action) and not be saved.
You can be non-baptised and not be saved.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
First off I didn't see anywhere in those verses the word "can", those are commandments, not suggestions.

Look at it this way. You are given a list of requirements. It says believe at the beginning, and farther down it says believe and be baptized. But the baptizm is still a requirement.

And baptizm is not an outward showing of inner grace. I present the eunuch heading to Antioch. The euchuch was baptized on the road there. If it were a sign of outward grace why wouldn't he wait until he got to Antioch where he could show off his newly found lifestyle? Because it is a requirement to be saved, not a show for other people.

Acts 8:29-40
And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: His generation who shall declare? For his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other? And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, `here is' water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? `And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.' And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached the gospel to all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
It's not a commandment. It's not required. I don't see anything in the New Testament that says you can't be saved unless you're baptised.

So I really don't see why I can't go to heaven if I'm not baptised (but I am anyway).

Christ never said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised and thou shalt be saved"
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
baptism doth also now save us

If you can't accept that (which is about as blunt as it comes) then I can't do anything else.
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: MonkOnXanax
Originally posted by: StormRider
No, he commanded him (I think) to have sex with someone and he didn't.

Why did God want him to have sex with someone? That seems kind of strange to me. Was it to produce children?

he hadn't invented porn yet.

to impregnate his brother's wife. because he refused, God killed him.

You people are so full of sh|t that it's actually getting really really funny.

no, it's just that I've read Genesis. Take a look
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
baptism doth also now save us

If you can't accept that (which is about as blunt as it comes) then I can't do anything else.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you CANNOT be saved without being baptised. If you think that, I'd suggest reading up on legalism.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's not a commandment. It's not required. I don't see anything in the New Testament that says you can't be saved unless you're baptised.

So I really don't see why I can't go to heaven if I'm not baptised (but I am anyway).

Christ never said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised and thou shalt be saved"

Mark 16:16 (which I've already quoted)
JESUS: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
baptism doth also now save us

If you can't accept that (which is about as blunt as it comes) then I can't do anything else.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you CANNOT be saved without being baptised. If you think that, I'd suggest reading up on legalism.
Ah a variation of the old "well it doesn't say that I can't do it" excuse.
It doesn't say anywhere that my chair can't be saved...so does that mean my chair can be saved?
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's not a commandment. It's not required. I don't see anything in the New Testament that says you can't be saved unless you're baptised.

So I really don't see why I can't go to heaven if I'm not baptised (but I am anyway).

Christ never said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised and thou shalt be saved"

Mark 16:16 (which I've already quoted)
JESUS: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.

I think you're confusing physical baptism with spiritual baptism.

Acts 19:4

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

1 Peter 3:21-22

this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[1] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's not a commandment. It's not required. I don't see anything in the New Testament that says you can't be saved unless you're baptised.

So I really don't see why I can't go to heaven if I'm not baptised (but I am anyway).

Christ never said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised and thou shalt be saved"

Mark 16:16 (which I've already quoted)
JESUS: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.

Mark 16:16:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

So... again... it's not "believe and be baptised and be saved. Don't believe OR DON'T BE BAPTISED and be damned."

Nowhere in the new covenant with Christ does it command that we cannot be saved without being baptised. Regardless if it says to get baptised or not, salvation comes by grace through faith. Not by baptism.
 

ElDonAntonio

Senior member
Aug 4, 2001
967
0
0
By the way weezergirl, you should change the title of this thread to:

"hypocritical christians, jews, muslims, etc"

Do you know ONE person that lives exactly as their religion asks them to live? trust me, despite appearances, even the most extreme believers eat chocolate when their mommy isn't looking.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
same verse to disprove your point.

your point: salvation comes by grace through faith. Not by baptism.
Bible's point: baptism doth also now save us

I'm seeing that baptism saves us from that.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's not a commandment. It's not required. I don't see anything in the New Testament that says you can't be saved unless you're baptised.

So I really don't see why I can't go to heaven if I'm not baptised (but I am anyway).

Christ never said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptised and thou shalt be saved"

Mark 16:16 (which I've already quoted)
JESUS: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.

I think you're confusing physical baptism with spiritual baptism.

Acts 19:4

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

1 Peter 3:21-22

this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[1] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Sh|t. I knew I was missing something. I should have defined what I was talking about. Physical baptism is not required. When you are saved, your spirit gets baptised automatically.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
same verse to disprove your point.

your point: salvation comes by grace through faith. Not by baptism.
Bible's point: baptism doth also now save us

I'm seeing that baptism saves up from that.

Saves up from that? can you say that a different way? I don't quite understand the way you worded that.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

So... again... it's not "believe and be baptised and be saved. Don't believe OR DON'T BE BAPTISED and be damned."
Hmm, why would it even need to say that. The commandment is to believe and be baptized = saved. However if you don't believe != saved.

But if I didn't believe in the first place then I wouldn't have done his commandment of being baptized. so therefore... don't believe != saved.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
same verse to disprove your point.

your point: salvation comes by grace through faith. Not by baptism.
Bible's point: baptism doth also now save us

I'm seeing that baptism saves up from that.

Saves up from that? can you say that a different way? I don't quite understand the way you worded that.

typo, my bad...and that p is no where near that s. Hmm.
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

So... again... it's not "believe and be baptised and be saved. Don't believe OR DON'T BE BAPTISED and be damned."
Hmm, why would it even need to say that. The commandment is to believe and be baptized = saved. However if you don't believe != saved.

But if I didn't believe in the first place then I wouldn't have done his commandment of being baptized. so therefore... don't believe != saved.

Early Christianity was a powerful social and political revolution -- in the small Early Christian communities, physical baptism was a rite of passage into small (sometimes gnostiic communities; they were very different from what you have today, and many of them would be rejected by modern Christians as being pagan).
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
1 Peter 3:21-22
this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[1] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


what version are you reading from? that "this water symbolizes" fragment definately isn't in my version (king james)
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

So... again... it's not "believe and be baptised and be saved. Don't believe OR DON'T BE BAPTISED and be damned."
Hmm, why would it even need to say that. The commandment is to believe and be baptized = saved. However if you don't believe != saved.

But if I didn't believe in the first place then I wouldn't have done his commandment of being baptized. so therefore... don't believe != saved.

Early Christianity was a powerful social and political revolution -- in the small Early Christian communities, physical baptism was a rite of passage into small (sometimes gnostiic communities; they were very different from what you have today, and many of them would be rejected by modern Christians as being pagan).

Very well said.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
Originally posted by: Jfur
Early Christianity was a powerful social and political revolution -- in the small Early Christian communities, physical baptism was a rite of passage into small (sometimes gnostiic communities; they were very different from what you have today, and many of them would be rejected by modern Christians as being pagan).
I'm not quite sure if you're proving my point or not on that one. Yes, traditionally one joined a church by being baptised into that church, but the bible teaches there is just one baptism into the Lord's church, not a local congregation.
Ephesians 4:4-7
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

So... again... it's not "believe and be baptised and be saved. Don't believe OR DON'T BE BAPTISED and be damned."
Hmm, why would it even need to say that. The commandment is to believe and be baptized = saved. However if you don't believe != saved.

But if I didn't believe in the first place then I wouldn't have done his commandment of being baptized. so therefore... don't believe != saved.

It doesn't say that physical baptism is a requirement for salvation. I'm not seeing it. Nothing that you've quoted says that salvation is through baptism.

But one of the biggest things here is the definition between physical and spiritual. When you get saved, you become baptised in the spirit. So maybe the verses that you are quoting can also be interpreted like this:

"Having been baptised in the spirit because you believed, you will be saved."

More clear?
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
your point about a physical baptism and a spiritual baptism are disproven in the verse I quoted in my previous post, stating there is only one baptism.
 

weezergirl

Diamond Member
May 24, 2000
3,366
1
0
I'd just like to reiterate that I'm not trying to say that Christians are supposed to be PERFECT, but I would have more respect for a christian that at least ATTEMPTS to live the christian lifestyle rather than one that just accepts God and that's all there is to it.

Kranky thanks for your post. I forgot what it said but I remember it was thought provoking. I think it had something to do with a lady at your church...well my thoughts on that is that she was not a true christian until she DID change her ways. Then, did she really accept God into her life. Or at least at the point when during that lifestyle she was extremely depressed and knew what she was doing was wrong and was working to change to what she has become now.

And I agree, I haven't read the bible, and a lot of people are attacking me for this because maybe I don't know what christianity is all about. But from what I DO know is that first and foremost fact about christianity is about accepting God into your heart. But I also know there are certain "advice", not necessarily RULES, in the Bible that is accepted as a christian way of life. I just think that if one was a christian and fully believed in God that he would at least TRY to follow that "advice"?

And a lot of christians are attacking me because they feel that I'm attacking them. I'm attacking the christians that do not feel any remorse for their actions and feel that what they are doing are not wrong. Comments such as "Boy, after this final i'm gonna get f*cking drunk this weekend" from a christian does not make me feel that they have truly accepted God into their life...but you're right...who am I to judge.
 

GtPrOjEcTX

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
10,784
6
81
please find a verse separating baptism into two parts, a physical and spiritual. I'm intrigued. I've always thought of it as one.
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX
your point about a physical baptism and a spiritual baptism are disproven in the verse I quoted in my previous post, stating there is only one baptism.

Then why does the Bible talk about two? The baptism of the spirit where christ washes you clean and awakens your spirit at the point that you accept Christ as your personal lord and savior, and the physical baptism such as what Jesus did?
 
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