hypocritical christians

[udonoogen]

double post

 

[udonoogen]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's called being human. There isn't one single person on earth who is 100% trusting in Christ 100% of the time.

hrmm ... my original reply to your original post seems to have been lost or deleted. here goes again

you have a good and valid point. perhaps my point is that some people are following a doctrine of Christianity which they believe is good enough ... they think that simply "believing" in a God is sufficient enough for salvation. faith can often mistakenly be temporal ... reserved for when they need help on finals, want a safe flight, or need money. this isn't the type of faith that is saving faith. saving faith is trusting Christ for your life. under ideal circumstances, you would be wanting to trust in Christ 100% of the time, 100%.

edit: LOL ... nm it wasn't lost or deleted ... page 3 just started

 

[iispeedyii]

Originally posted by: weezergirl
how do christians get drunk, get high, have premarital sex, are homosexuals, swear on a regular basis, cheat, etc and still manage to call themselves christians and go to church every sunday?

not saying i disagree with everything listed up there but then again, I DONT' CALL MYSELF CHRISTIAN. i would say more than 50% of the christians i know at my school (a college) do one or more of those things on a regular basis and then they have the nerve to try and convert me? from what i've heard, even if you BELIEVE in God...if you do any of these things on a regular basis with no attempts to change then you haven't really accepted God or the christian way of life...and nope! you ain't going to heaven either.

WTF. somebody explain it to me, preferrably a christian that does one of these things!

The reason why christians that claim to be christians "sin" is because they want to easy as that. college students love to experiment, especially in drugs, alcohol and sex. Some christians even commit these sins while wearing the CROSS... it's very hypocritical to their religion/own beliefs. I believe we can all agree on that these PEOPLE that commit sins on purpose are probably not real christians (at the momemt). However, it bothers me that these people will still go to heaven, if at some point in their life they decide to truly believe and have faith in "Christ". THis just doesnt add up, say person A commits 100 more times sins as person B. Now person A all the sudden believes in "Christ" , repents and goes to heaven, whereas person B still doesnt have faith, and goes to HELL?????

My point is that many of these CHRISTIANS who sin are knowingly SINNING on PURPOSE, and they have this false sense of security of going to heaven, because they are christians. but what if they do fully believe and have faith in "Christ" later on in life, they still go to heaven right? SO why doesnt everyone who want to go to heaven just SIN SIN SIN, and then later on in life sit down and think about what they have done, repent, find christ, and go to heaven? you can argue that these people may not live long enough before they believe in CHRIST, but still, just because there is this possibility of messing up KNOWINGLY and still be able to go to heaven does not make any sense at all. People know when they commit sins therefore should be responsible for their actions.

You may argue that finding "CHRIST" isnt that simple? true... having faith is almost like having a sixth sense. YOU JUST GOTTA FEEL IT. So, "faith" is hard to obtain as humans.. since we only have 5 senses

I feel that a religion is just a set of conducts humans should follow. Religions help humans from going astray. That is why many of the nicest people i know are believers of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, etc. You can also think of religion as a social event, where people gather together and talk about their problems, help each other out. I think religion is a great thing. i bet some people claim to be part of it just for the sense of belonging (socializing).. Religion is a big social fraternity/sorority with a bunch of standards!!!

peace

 

[udonoogen]

Originally posted by: iispeedyii

The reason why christians that claim to be christians "sin" is because they want to easy as that. college students love to experiment, especially in drugs, alcohol and sex. Some christians even commit these sins while wearing the CROSS... it's very hypocritical to their religion/own beliefs. I believe we can all agree on that these PEOPLE that commit sins on purpose are probably not real christians (at the momemt). However, it bothers me that these people will still go to heaven, if at some point in their life they decide to truly believe and have faith in "Christ". THis just doesnt add up, say person A commits 100 more times sins as person B. Now person A all the sudden believes in "Christ" , repents and goes to heaven, whereas person B still doesnt have faith, and goes to HELL?????

Committing acts that go against your belief doesn't unChristian you. As it has been said many times before, Christians are not perfect. We are just like everyone else, imperfect. Salvation and forgiveness is not granted on a scale ... no one is more worthy to go into heaven than anyone else. It is because all of us sin ... and that makes us unworthy.

My point is that many of these CHRISTIANS who sin are knowingly SINNING on PURPOSE, and they have this false sense of security of going to heaven, because they are christians. but what if they do fully believe and have faith in "Christ" later on in life, they still go to heaven right?

Christians who sin are still Christians and are still saved. why? because all Christians sin. all people sin. sinning intentionally and sinning unintentionally ... its still sin. being a Christian doesn't give you the license to sin freely. that's ridiculous. the motive for living a more Christ-like life is to please God.

SO why doesnt everyone who want to go to heaven just SIN SIN SIN, and then later on in life sit down and think about what they have done, repent, find christ, and go to heaven?

are you truly repentful for your sins if your intention in life is to sin all you want all your life?

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: udonoogen

Originally posted by: iispeedyii

The reason why christians that claim to be christians "sin" is because they want to easy as that. college students love to experiment, especially in drugs, alcohol and sex. Some christians even commit these sins while wearing the CROSS... it's very hypocritical to their religion/own beliefs. I believe we can all agree on that these PEOPLE that commit sins on purpose are probably not real christians (at the momemt). However, it bothers me that these people will still go to heaven, if at some point in their life they decide to truly believe and have faith in "Christ". THis just doesnt add up, say person A commits 100 more times sins as person B. Now person A all the sudden believes in "Christ" , repents and goes to heaven, whereas person B still doesnt have faith, and goes to HELL?????

Committing acts that go against your belief doesn't unChristian you. As it has been said many times before, Christians are not perfect. We are just like everyone else, imperfect. Salvation and forgiveness is not granted on a scale ... no one is more worthy to go into heaven than anyone else. It is because all of us sin ... and that makes us unworthy.

My point is that many of these CHRISTIANS who sin are knowingly SINNING on PURPOSE, and they have this false sense of security of going to heaven, because they are christians. but what if they do fully believe and have faith in "Christ" later on in life, they still go to heaven right?

Christians who sin are still Christians and are still saved. why? because all Christians sin. all people sin. sinning intentionally and sinning unintentionally ... its still sin. being a Christian doesn't give you the license to sin freely. that's ridiculous. the motive for living a more Christ-like life is to please God.

SO why doesnt everyone who want to go to heaven just SIN SIN SIN, and then later on in life sit down and think about what they have done, repent, find christ, and go to heaven?

are you truly repentful for your sins if your intention in life is to sin all you want all your life?

I think he's saying we all know people who take a LOT of liberties with the "all people are sinners and I'll be forgiven thing"

 

[udonoogen]

i suppose he's speaking of the very people weezergirl was talking about. i can't speak for those people. i know them too. but i can't tell you whether or not they are saved. only God knows. i can tell you what they're doing is not condoned.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: weezergirl

Originally posted by: StormRider
I'm an agnostic and I'm a 39 year old virgin. I'd like to see a religious person beat that...

heh just wondering if this was by choice? it's not that hard to get laid...

I just haven't met any girls worthy of me, that's all. Also, the values instilled in me by my agnostic upbringing prevents me from visiting a hooker.

 

[iispeedyii]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: weezergirl

Originally posted by: StormRider
I'm an agnostic and I'm a 39 year old virgin. I'd like to see a religious person beat that...

heh just wondering if this was by choice? it's not that hard to get laid...

I just haven't met any girls worthy of me, that's all. Also, the values instilled in me by my agnostic upbringing prevents me from visiting a hooker.

if you havent met any girls worthy of you... then ofcourse hookers wouldnt be worthy of you either right? your first statement already shows that you would not visit a hooker because they are unworthy of you. I take it that you are trying to say that you have agnostic parents who taught you good values.

 

[ElDonAntonio]

I wonder how long a thread with the same title but targeting another religion would last...anyone up for the test?

 

[DiamondJ]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: weezergirl

Originally posted by: StormRider
I'm an agnostic and I'm a 39 year old virgin. I'd like to see a religious person beat that...

heh just wondering if this was by choice? it's not that hard to get laid...

I just haven't met any girls worthy of me, that's all. Also, the values instilled in me by my agnostic upbringing prevents me from visiting a hooker.

Are all Agnostic believers as pridefull as yourself? What makes you so much better than anyone else...that they aren't "worthy of you"? Gimmie' a break.

 

[ElDonAntonio]

Originally posted by: DiamondJ

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: weezergirl

Originally posted by: StormRider
I'm an agnostic and I'm a 39 year old virgin. I'd like to see a religious person beat that...

heh just wondering if this was by choice? it's not that hard to get laid...

I just haven't met any girls worthy of me, that's all. Also, the values instilled in me by my agnostic upbringing prevents me from visiting a hooker.

Are all Agnostic believers as pridefull as yourself? What makes you so much better than anyone else...that they aren't "worthy of you"? Gimmie' a break.

He just said he never MET a girl worthy of it. He didn't say there's no girl in the universe worthy of him. Plus, some people still believe in no sex before marriage you know. Maybe he does and hasn't found the One yet.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: udonoogen
Christians who sin are still Christians and are still saved. why? because all Christians sin. all people sin. sinning intentionally and sinning unintentionally ... its still sin. being a Christian doesn't give you the license to sin freely. that's ridiculous. the motive for living a more Christ-like life is to please God.

Once saved, always saved is not taught in the Bible. Once saved Christians can fall away. Judas for example.

 

[Peetoeng]

No one likes a hypocrite, apparently not even a fellow hypocrite.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
It's called being human. There isn't one single person on earth who is 100% trusting in Christ 100% of the time.

Amen. Go in peace, serve the Lord....
....Thanks be to God.

 

[przero]

GtPrOjEcTX - Salvation is permanent. Think about it. Christ died for everyone's sin for all time. Now faith in him and his death on the cross as a payment for sin is a one time all time proposition. But this faith will result in a changed life , one where sin will no longer dominate. It may exist, but it will not have control. If you're ability not to sin would get/keep you "saved" then Christ died for nought. True faith is forever, however, there will still be failures along the way for all of us.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: DiamondJ

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: weezergirl

Originally posted by: StormRider
I'm an agnostic and I'm a 39 year old virgin. I'd like to see a religious person beat that...

heh just wondering if this was by choice? it's not that hard to get laid...

I just haven't met any girls worthy of me, that's all. Also, the values instilled in me by my agnostic upbringing prevents me from visiting a hooker.

Are all Agnostic believers as pridefull as yourself? What makes you so much better than anyone else...that they aren't "worthy of you"? Gimmie' a break.

Geez, some people have no sense of humor. If you have ever seen any of my other posts, the more likely reason is that I don't think myself worthy of any girl.

But even if I did, I would probably be one of those guys who either:

1) Waited for marriage
2) Had very few sex partners

And the reason would be that I am basically a shy person (maybe too shy). And most shy people have a hard time just talking and opening up to someone unless they know and trust the other person very well. Therefore, it's not in my nature to think of sex as just a recreational activity (not that's there anything really wrong with that but if too many people behave in that way it could have bad consequences to society in the form of sexual diseases and unwanted pregnancies) -- instead I think of sex as an expression of love.

That's why girls should only go after shy guys. If you can manage to get them to have sex with you then you know they really love you.

Edit: Also, do you know what an agnostic is? I just put that in because I thought it would be funny hearing an agnostic talking about values since a lot of people think you need religion for morals/values.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: przero
GtPrOjEcTX - Salvation is permanent. Think about it. Christ died for everyone's sin for all time. Now faith in him and his death on the cross as a payment for sin is a one time all time proposition. But this faith will result in a changed life , one where sin will no longer dominate. It may exist, but it will not have control. If you're ability not to sin would get/keep you "saved" then Christ died for nought. True faith is forever, however, there will still be failures along the way for all of us.

Then by your reasoning a Christian that has salvaltion at one point can (since salvation is permanent) totally change his/her belief to maybe a person who doesn't even believe in God, but then that person is still saved. But how can a person that not even believe in God go to heaven? You may say, well, this person didn't trully believe in the first place. Look at case 2 below.

Jesus's parable of the sower Luke 8:5-15
"A sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell along the path, and was trodden under foot, and the birds of the air devoured it. And some fell on the rock; and as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns grew with it and choked it. And some fell into good soil and grew, and yielded a hundredfold." As he said this, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, he said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. And as for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bring forth fruit with patience."

Cases:
1) Those who hear and don't believe = not saved
2) Those who hear and believe, but fall away = not saved
3) Those who hear, but choked by life = not saved
4) Those who hear, believe, and hold fast = saved.

 

"Committing acts that go against your belief doesn't unChristian you. As it has been said many times before, Christians are not perfect. We are just like everyone else, imperfect. Salvation and forgiveness is not granted on a scale ... no one is more worthy to go into heaven than anyone else. It is because all of us sin ... and that makes us unworthy."

I disagree! Intent absolutely matters. Someone who professes to believe in God but intentionally sins is no true Christian. That's very different from a Christian who falls short and brings his sins to Christ confessing to it.

Here's a parable Jesus told to support my opinion here: Remember the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector who went to pray? The Pharisee said, thank God I'm better than the tax collector. The tax collector said, Lord, I know I've sinned, forgive me and make my life better, basically. This isn't verbatim, as I'm a little too lazy to go find the actual quote. Jesus said that the tax collector would see the kingdom of God and the Pharisee would not. You know the difference between the tax collector and the Pharisee? The Pharisee by definition is a self-righteous person, also known as a hypocrite. (All right! I gave in. Check for the story in Luke 18: 9-14)

Basically, I do recognise that Christians are not perfect and they're human. I mean, if they were perfect, then there would be no point worshipping an entity that proclaims to be perfect. However, when a Christian sins, he (or she) should recognise this and have the repentance for it. Such Christian is a true Christian. On the other hand, the Christian who behaves a certain way contrary to the belief system, then goes to Church and criticises or preaches to other people who live contrary to the belief system is a hypocrite. And in my opinion, damnation is waiting for them if they remain that way. The way to know those kinds of Christians is, they try to justify their lifestyles before (within their minds) and when they're caught. I can't stand hyprocrites. They're also the Church goers and the ones who think that would take them to heaven. In my opinion, Church is not what would determine if one sees the Kingdom of God. In fact, the Church is for brotherhood fellowship. You can worship God from home, but Church is supposed to help with fellowship and growth. Church only began with the apostles.

And I should add, I will judge people. All I ever say about judging is, if you're going to judge, be clean. I check to be sure I'm clean about something before I judge someone. But judgement is human nature and a necessity for survival. Even Christ judged. Don't you remember when people came doing the usual thing of selling things in the temple? What Jesus do? That's nothing but judgment. It would seem to me that in every instances where Jesus said do not judge so that you might not be judged and practised it, he was referring to hypocrites. In other words, if someone has done bad but was remorseful about it, he or she should not be condemned. And if you weren't any clean, you have no qualification to shoot your mouth. But if someone was not remorseful, you had every reason to judge if you were clean. I'm too lazy to cite instances by Bible verses (i.e., parables and actual events according to the Bible).

Storm Rider, aaaaaaaaaaw! Cutie. I would squeeze you like a teddy bear if you weren't waaaaaay older than I. Don't worry, though. I'm listening to you by appreciating a shy guy. Of course he would treat me like a princess. LOL!

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: luvly
And if you weren't any clean, you have no qualification to shoot your mouth.

I was right up with you until that...

I get your point. If you sin and repent and sin again and repent, knowing that its said that when you repent your sins will be forgiven, just to be able to sin again, you're not getting it. Repenting is a change of life...to no longer do that sin.

But your point about intentionally sinning and not intentionally sinning...there are VERY few cases where it is possible to sin unintentionally (if any), as long as you know the scripture.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

and come on, find the verses... I've spent mucho time looking up the verses to back up my points...

 

"But your point about intentionally sinning and not intentionally sinning...there are VERY few cases where it is possible to sin intentionally (if any), as long as you know the scripture."

Let me define intentional sinning: There's the deliberate one you do knowing it's wrong but feeling no remorse about it. That one isn't very common amongst so-called Christians, but it happens. But there's also the one that feels some weakness and does it from this weakness. He or she may feel bad about it at first, but he or she gets so comfortable with it and lives that lifestyle, and then starts to try to justify it within himself (or herself) and then gradually externally justify it.

Edit: I added the Luke 18: 9-14 for the tax collector story. The temple story I can find. Hold!

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

whoops, my bad...that's totally not what I meant...put a "un" in front of that....
unintentionally

 

[linuxboy]

It's called being human. There isn't one single person on earth who is 100% trusting in Christ 100% of the time.

"You are as gods"

and

"Be, therefore, perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect"


Do or do not, there is no try. Time is irrelevant from that perspective, and trust is.


Cheers !

 

[EXman]

how do christians get drunk, get high, have premarital sex, are homosexuals, swear on a regular basis, cheat, etc and still manage to call themselves christians and go to church every sunday?

They are not Christians (notice that the "C" is capitalized)

So they are not hypocritical Christians they are just fooling themselves and living in sin. It takes more than calling yourself a Christian to be one.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: linuxboy
"Be, therefore, perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect"

So what should it say, "Don't be perfect, because only God is perfect?" No, only He is flawless, but he wants us to model him...basically the jist of that verse.