Hypothetical history: North America without Europe

[mmntech]

Let's play the hypothetical history game.

Imagine it's the year 1493. A battered ship returns to port in Spain. The Italian explorer leading the fleet has died during a violent storm, as well as most of his crew. Years of failed attempts continue yet nobody manages to survive the Atlantic crossing. European monarchs come to the conclusion that there is nothing out there and it's just too costly and too dangerous a route to the Orient. They agree with their Chinese counterparts to end open ocean sailing and the age of exploration ends.

500 years later, a brilliant European invents a flying machine and tries to circumnavigate the globe with it. He discovers a massive land mass between Europe and China. What would he find there?

Let's just talk about North America. How would it evolve without any outside contact from Europe, Asia, or Africa? Would its native people's be better off than they are today? Would they have developed advanced forms of government, technology? Or would they end up being swallowed into the powerful and technologically advanced empires to the south? Discuss.

 

[SithSolo1]

We'd either all be some form of Asian and technologically similar to Europe or we would be some form of Native American/South American and still using bows and arrows, horses and buffalo.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

they would have gotten here eventually.


edit: I forget what that theory is, but its basically a theory that all great events in history would have happened whether or not that person was there.


For instance, if Einstein hadn't come up with his theory of relativity, and Einstein didn't exist or died, ect. Someone else would have come up with it eventually.

 

[Zedtom]

Since the Moors had been kicked out of Spain, they might have focused their efforts on exploration to the new world. Imagine the colonization of the America's under Islamic rule.

The natives might have been allowed to continue their religious practices and encouraged to live peacefully with the new immigrants from Arabia and North Africa.

The Europeans would have to deal with a large group of natives who would be loyal to their new partners- not conquerors. Europe would be the weak player in world commerce.

 

[IronWing]

We'd either all be some form of Asian and technologically similar to Europe or we would be some form of Native American/South American and still using bows and arrows, horses and buffalo.

Nope, no horses in the New World. The only New World animal to serve as a beast of burden is the llama.

In the Old World: no corn, no peppers, no tobacco, no chocolate, no potatos, no tomatoes. The Irish would have had to have a rye famine instead.

 

[nonameo]

Nope, no horses in the New World. The only New World animal to serve as a beast of burden is the llama.

In the Old World: no corn, no peppers, no tobacco, no chocolate, no potatos, no tomatoes. The Irish would have had to have a rye famine instead.

rye oh rye must they suffer at the hands of mother nature?

 

[schneiderguy]

England would lose WW2 without 'Murika.

 

[Dominato3r]

You know those videos that show up every so often of the lost tribes in the Amazon?

Yea, something like that I'm guessing.

 

[MayorOfAmerica]

they would have gotten here eventually.


...

For instance, if Einstein hadn't come up with his theory of relativity, and Einstein didn't exist or died, ect. Someone else would have come up with it eventually.

Someone else already did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Relativity_priority_dispute

 

[Printer Bandit]

we would all be eating tacos.

 

[zerocool84]

England would lose WW2 without 'Murika.

There wouldn't even be a WWII without America in WWI.

 

[BladeVenom]

There wouldn't even be a WWII without America in WWI.

I agree. Germany would have won WWI.

 

[Newbian]

I would go with the theory we would had been a viking nation as they found us some 500 years before and they would had came back and then we would be pillaging and raping the seas.

 

[0roo0roo]

they would have gotten here eventually.


edit: I forget what that theory is, but its basically a theory that all great events in history would have happened whether or not that person was there.


For instance, if Einstein hadn't come up with his theory of relativity, and Einstein didn't exist or died, ect. Someone else would have come up with it eventually.

that only works for folks who lived in the same culture of einstein.

isolated cultures can be simply stagnant. europe jumped ahead in tech because of ruthless war and competition between states, unless the american indians mirrored this behavior they might well have remained stagnant.

Niall Ferguson had a good documentary series called civilization the west and the rest or something, used to be on youtube..but it got taken down
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/civilization-is-the-west-history

 

[So]

I agree. Germany would have won WWI.

Quite probably. While it's questionable as to whether the US's direct military intervention would have made a difference, there is no reasonable doubt that US manufacturing and raw materials made a big difference for the allies throughout the war.

Re: the OP....500 years wouldn't have made a difference. Technologically, the civilizations of north america were stuck in the late bronze age and were advancing more slowly than the "old world" -- the time of contact would likely have made little difference to the outcome. In fact, given that it was centuries of exploration that (slowly) moderated europe's racist imperalist tendencies, a delay in contact would likely only have made the conquest that much more brutal.

 

[0roo0roo]

hm seems it will air this month in the us finally..
http://video.pbs.org/video/2223962069/

you can still find it at the usual places though.. >_> <_<

 

[Vic Vega]

...

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Civilizations advance at an exponential rate. Given where the Native American's were at the time, 500 years would not have made much difference. It's like asking asking how much different Mesopotamia would look in 3000 BC or 2500 BC.

 

[Farang]

Quite probably. While it's questionable as to whether the US's direct military intervention would have made a difference, there is no reasonable doubt that US manufacturing and raw materials made a big difference for the allies throughout the war.

Re: the OP....500 years wouldn't have made a difference. Technologically, the civilizations of north america were stuck in the late bronze age and were advancing more slowly than the "old world" -- the time of contact would likely have made little difference to the outcome. In fact, given that it was centuries of exploration that (slowly) moderated europe's racist imperalist tendencies, a delay in contact would likely only have made the conquest that much more brutal.

I think you last comment is really what this topic is about--what political/social differences would there have been in Europeans 500 years later to change their behavior in the New World? My guess is the history would obviously be dramatically altered (including a different cultural/language makeup the Americas) but the basic premise of colonization would have remained the same.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Europe would have descended into chaos and ruin without the leadership of the U.S.

 

[mmntech]

hm seems it will air this month in the us finally..
http://video.pbs.org/video/2223962069/

you can still find it at the usual places though.. >_> <_<

A good read is Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel". On the same topic.

To clarify, where I'm going with this topic focuses strictly on North America. What's going on in the rest of the world doesn't count. Basically, it's a what-if the Americas were left in isolation.

 

[0roo0roo]

A good read is Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel". On the same topic.

To clarify, where I'm going with this topic focuses strictly on North America. What's going on in the rest of the world doesn't count. Basically, it's a what-if the Americas were left in isolation.

well the problem with that book is that it is a bit too pc with the convenient excuses for why some people were behind.

 

[Dominato3r]

I don't know how you could bring PC into a theory of world history. Most of Diamond's points connect pretty well and he has written many best sellers after GG&S that expand his thoughts... His reasons for European dominance made sense.