I am Antifa but what they did in Durham was wrong

[J.Wilkins]

was the statue torn down in Durham of Davis, Lee or Jackson?

Do the Germans have WWII statues dedicated to honour Nazi soldiers?

 

[Roflmouth]

Every day that a confederate statue is allowed to stand is a wrong.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/16/regime-change-in-charlottesville-215500

These are symbols of hate, built in the Jim Crow era to intimidate minorities and allowed to stand for far too long. But times, they are changing.
Now it's up to politicians to decide, do they want them to come down in orderly and semi-dignified fashion, or be "lynched" like statues of Lenin and Saddam were.

Or they'll stay up, and you can continue impotently crying

 

[Roflmouth]

Lol! Do you know why our founding fathers who were slave owners aren't condemned the same way as confederate generals are? Because one set of people thought that owning slaves was worthy of not only removing themselves from this great country but that it was worth killing fellow Americans over it. They are traitors to this country at the very least and no monument should ever be erected to memorialize traitors.

LOL, so it wasn't about slavery then. Thanks for the damning admission

 

[Roflmouth]

Let me spoil the suspense. Nazi and confederate sympathizers will lose.

He proclaimed on a message board before calling for his mommy

 

[J.Wilkins]

He proclaimed on a message board before calling for his mommy

He's right, they will forever lose and that's quite fitting considering that they are nothing but a bunch of losers.

 

[zinfamous]

was the statue torn down in Durham of Davis, Lee or Jackson?

I agree with you here, and I made a similar comment a few times already in this thread (and yeah--I even linked images of German soldier memorials from WW2 to make that point ).

You did say "these memorials," though, which implies some sort of unprecedented madness and unfairness about the wholesale removal of all of the confederate hero statues and that maybe this incident in Durham is the same as all the others?

 

[zinfamous]

Do the Germans have WWII statues dedicated to honour Nazi soldiers?

yes. several apparently. Such things can be done appropriately, and in the proper context. It's no small thing for a nation to suffer the loss of nearly an entire generation of their youngest--regardless of their own complicity in their self-destruction, regardless of the evils they fought for. Certainly not all of those who fought were true believers.

 

[J.Wilkins]

yes. several apparently. Such things can be done appropriately, and in the proper context. It's no small thing for a nation to suffer the loss of nearly an entire generation of their youngest--regardless of their own complicity in their self-destruction, regardless of the evils they fought for. Certainly not all of those who fought were true believers.

I have yet to see one, there are stone monuments in smaller villages in Bavaria but those are generally WWI monuments where the sons of the village that died in WWII were added on later on.

 

[hal2kilo]

He's right, they will forever lose and that's quite fitting considering that they are nothing but a bunch of losers.

Confirmed by Bannon himself.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...aa1e4b0acc593e538d4?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

He called white supremacists “clowns,” despite having once run a website that caters to them.[

 

[senseamp]

I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavoured to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered

 

[zinfamous]

I have yet to see one, there are stone monuments in smaller villages in Bavaria but those are generally WWI monuments where the sons of the village that died in WWII were added on later on.

hmm, it could be that the images google was showing me were actually WW1 memorials.

 

[OutHouse]

I have yet to see one, there are stone monuments in smaller villages in Bavaria but those are generally WWI monuments where the sons of the village that died in WWII were added on later on.

i lived in Germany (Hunsruck area) and the little village i lived in had a statue of a german soldier for their war memorial. it was just a tribute to the fallen that lived in the town that fought for his country in both wars. it was not a Nazi memorial in anyway shape or form.

 

[Roflmouth]

I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavoured to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered

Yes, facts you don't like need to be "eliminated" so your feelings don't get hurt.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm in my 60's, and until this shit happened over the weekend, I don't remember any big fuss or furor about "OMFG! THOSE CONFEDERATE STATUES ARE RACIST!"
Sure, people have railed against the Confederate flag...and I get that...to a point, but for those of you who have joined the "TEAR DOWN THOSE STATUES!" fight...where were you for the past 10, 10, 40 years?
This has just become the latest "OMG! Something has offended someone! We must join in and eliminate it!" thing.

(FWIW, I'm a damned Yankee and proud of it...and while I disagree that secession was treasonous, I have never been a supporter of them that southerners in their fight against the USA)

 

[quikah]

hmm, it could be that the images google was showing me were actually WW1 memorials.

There are some specific WW2 memorials, like the White Rose monument in Munich and the Reichstag memorial. I don't know of others, but I would assume there are some. Of course both of those memorials are anti-Nazi.

 

[Roflmouth]

I'm in my 60's, and until this shit happened over the weekend, I don't remember any big fuss or furor about "OMFG! THOSE CONFEDERATE STATUES ARE RACIST!"

People used to have actual problems and didn't have time to invent them out of whole cloth.

 

[pmv]

I'm in my 60's, and until this shit happened over the weekend, I don't remember any big fuss or furor about "OMFG! THOSE CONFEDERATE STATUES ARE RACIST!"
Sure, people have railed against the Confederate flag...and I get that...to a point, but for those of you who have joined the "TEAR DOWN THOSE STATUES!" fight...where were you for the past 10, 10, 40 years?
This has just become the latest "OMG! Something has offended someone! We must join in and eliminate it!" thing.

(FWIW, I'm a damned Yankee and proud of it...and while I disagree that secession was treasonous, I have never been a supporter of them that southerners in their fight against the USA)

But a fuss or furore is also dependent on the degree of confidence or power to speak (or, even, possibly, to allow themselves to think certain thoughts) of one side. I just doubt that many African Americans have ever been wildly happy to have such statues go up. They might just have had other priorities at the time. Most points-of-view have long lineages, its just that the balance-of-power among them changes over time.

Edit - granted, though, it would be interesting to know more about how people of different groups really felt about these symbols in the past.

 

[Stokely]

Had a self-touted liberal columnist on NPR today talking about Antifa (apparently he follows them and interviews them often). He had some issues with them--basically anarchy is hardly compatible with liberalism In general, it's not a good thing if a group can just go in and cause violence and mayhem and subvert counter-protests. It's counter-productive for one thing, it provides the alt-right for fuel against the entire Left. And he said that it's on their whim who they turn their violence and methods against...it's not so bad when it's against scum like Nazis, but that may not always be the case.

That said, he said the equivalency with alt-right white supremacists is false for three reasons:
- scope of violence is far less. White-first groups kill more than Islamic terrorists, and both far more than leftist groups.
- they do not have the audience like the alt-right groups have all the way up to high levels of government.
- their stated goals and methods may be "bad" in some way but not as bad as the goals of the nazi types.

Personally, I think they are not helping the situation. I believe in counter-protests but they need to stay non-violent. You'd get a lot more people going out to them if they did.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, facts you don't like need to be "eliminated" so your feelings don't get hurt.

You haven't encountered a fact that you haven't kicked to the ground and taken a big fat dump on. Spare us your righteous mental impotence.

 

[senseamp]

Yes, facts you don't like need to be "eliminated" so your feelings don't get hurt.

.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments/

 

[JeepinEd]

Where do you draw the line?
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/...float-criminalization-of-confederate-imagery/

 

[JEDIYoda]

When you use the word 'anarchist' what meaning are you implying?

There is always one in the group.....

 

[J.Wilkins]

i lived in Germany (Hunsruck area) and the little village i lived in had a statue of a german soldier for their war memorial. it was just a tribute to the fallen that lived in the town that fought for his country in both wars. it was not a Nazi memorial in anyway shape or form.

Only memorials I'm familiar with in that area are the Hinzert concentration camp memorial for the victims of the Nazis and the Damscheid Kriegerdenkmal that is a WW1 monument updated with WW2 soldier names.

I think the iron cross throws people because they associate it with the Nazis but it's been around since the 1870's and was used on a lot of memorials pre-dating the Nazi era.

 

[J.Wilkins]

I'm in my 60's, and until this shit happened over the weekend, I don't remember any big fuss or furor about "OMFG! THOSE CONFEDERATE STATUES ARE RACIST!"
Sure, people have railed against the Confederate flag...and I get that...to a point, but for those of you who have joined the "TEAR DOWN THOSE STATUES!" fight...where were you for the past 10, 10, 40 years?
This has just become the latest "OMG! Something has offended someone! We must join in and eliminate it!" thing.

(FWIW, I'm a damned Yankee and proud of it...and while I disagree that secession was treasonous, I have never been a supporter of them that southerners in their fight against the USA)

Well in Charlottesville they voted on the matter and it passed so maybe that is why?

The statue was put up in the 20's but I suppose this is the first time there have been enough people wanting it gone to actually make it happen. That's how things usually work, isn't it?

 

[BoomerD]

Well in Charlottesville they voted on the matter and it passed so maybe that is why?

The statue was put up in the 20's but I suppose this is the first time there have been enough people wanting it gone to actually make it happen. That's how things usually work, isn't it?

Hell, I'm fine with a City/County government taking them down and relocating them...that is NOT the same as a group of protesters tearing them down because of "feels."