I could use some advice...

[Build it Myself]

I've been reading this website for the last few hours...make that the larger part of the afternoon and this evening and I've found it to be very helpful in my understanding of exactly what I should know before buying a computer...oops, now it's building a computer.

I went to CircuitCity (Don't flame me, I didn't know any better!) and they told me that I was getting a top of the line computer (insert joke here) it was an AMD 5600 with a 256 Rad card...I think a 1250 or something along that line and a 500meg drive, etc. etc. Long story short they made a mistake and sent me an even worse computer, bad customer support, etc. etc. and I find myself researching other companies.

One company offered to build me a custom system for $1200 using the new 6850 from Intel. Then I started comparing why he was so interested in pushing this chip to me and I found your site. Long story short, I believe it'd actually be more fun for me to build a computer myself after reading the larger part of 400 or so posts and many many of the benchmark articles. I find the idea appealing and I think it would be fun and allow me to understand what to look for in the future so I don't get taken advantage of again. Not to mention it seems to me like I'd be saving a lot of money rather than spending $1200 for a custom build (without monitor).

So here's what I've come up with and I'm hoping I'm at least somewhere close to what I should be at regarding a decent computer. I'm still trying to figure out what motherboards match with what processors, ect. exactly but I think I've got the underlying basics covered. So if maybe I could have a couple opinions as to the list I've compiled and if there are improvements or recommendations I should consider I'd appreciate hearing them.

On a last note, I honestly haven't ever heard of overclocking before coming here, but I do have a grasp of the concept after reading the overclocking tutorials and what have you. So that is an option for me, however I'd like to know in the event of overclocking what kind of cooling I should use if the fan I've selected isn't adequate.

Last but not least, this computer is really a school computer for college but I do plan on playing things like Silent Hunter 4 and Company of Heroes. It might look like I've overpowered this system based on those choices, but with the speed of technology change I'm sure I'll find a way to waste the extra power I have.

Anyway, specs as follows:

Processor: 6750 for about 195? I thought about the 6850 but from the posts it doesn't warrant the extra $100.

Board: ABIT IP35 LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail for $130. Not sure about this or even if it's what I'm looking for.

Fan: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler $20. The case I want has fans but I have no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for, especially if I'm considering a mild overclocking.

RAM: 4gigs of PC6400 though I have no idea of what company to buy from. Since the price is so different I'll wait to see what someone says because I can't tell the difference.

Video: 512Mg Gforce 8500 from Zogis for about $75? Again, I see a big price gap between this and the 8800's and even 8600's so I'm interested in finding out how significant a difference there will be. A.K.A. is it worth the money to go higher.

HD: Open Box: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive. This is on Newegg for $60. I can't imagine I'd need more than 320GB but I have no idea if this would perform adequately...again help is appreciated.

CD/DVD: I'd like to hear what people have to say about reliability or performance regarding different companies...again large price gaps equal ???'s to me.

Case: APEVIA X-CRUISER-RD Red Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail. I'm making this decision entirely based on looks alone so if there's a secret I don't know about I'd love to hear it! I just think this case is the best looking one I can find.

Power: Rosewill RP550V2-S-SL 550W Power Supply - Retail. Again, not expensive but I don't know anything about it, I'm once again going by the shiny blue light!

And that about covers it. If I'm missing some critical system I apologize for sounding stupid but I'm not even sure once I order these things how to put them together!! LOL, so bear with me while I expand my knowledge in this field. I should be speaking the lingo in a few days time.

Thanks a lot, and sorry for the extensive explanations, I talk too much I suppose.

John

 

[Build it Myself]

Point being, I forgot to mention, is that this setup costs something like $800 and I might be going overboard or picking overpriced parts. If it comes down to it, I don't mind running a lower processor and overclocking like I mentioned as long as it's something that I could handle doing and managing. I understand there's a significant increase in heat, and in turn I imagine I can expect a shorter life span. If that's the case then I would like to at least get a good mobo that I can upgrade over time (I've been reading a lot about intel's new chipsets that are supposed to come out in Nov. and into Q1)...

 

[o1die]

I would go with crucial, ocz, or corsair memory, either pc5300 or pc6400. Unless you run with 64 bit vista or windows server 2003, your operating system won't recognize all 4 gb. 2 gb might be enough for light gaming and basic office software. But if the price is right, go ahead and get 4. Some places have pc6400 for $45 after rebate for 2 gigs. Newegg and slickdeals are 2 places to check. Fry's.com or their stores also have good memory prices. Buy.com has crucial pc5300, 1 gig for $19.99 after rebate plus another $10 off for google checkout.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

- Abit IP35-E...$61 AR @ MWAVE ($5 PriceGrabber Review)
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/vie...a=BA23929&RSKU=BA23929

- HP 1.8V DDR2 667 RAM...$40 AR (1GB x4)
http://www.costcentral.com/pro...ail/HP/PX976AT/L49299/

- HDD..$50 or less for 160GB Seagate/Maxtor on sale at Staples, Office Depot, Frys

- DVD burner...$30 Sony/NEC Optiarc (good modded FW)

- Intel E2160 or E2180 CPU...$70-$80

- CoolerMaster CPU cooler...FREE AR
http://www.clubit.com/product_...il.cfm?itemno=A1906910

- Antec Earthwatts 380 PSU...$20 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371005

- Antec SLK3000B or Antec Solo...$50. Look for one 120mm rear case fan.

 

[Denithor]

Ok, the run-down.

e6750 is a great choice unless you plan to overclock, then I would recommend the e6550. They should both hit about the same speed on the stock cooling, your call there.

RAM: Buy the HP DDR2-667 listed in the hot deals forum, averages $10-15/GB after MIR (these rebates are no problem, just mail by the deadline). Get 2GB if running 32-bit XP or 4GB if running 64-bit Vista. Heck, at that price, get 4GB just because you can.

MOBO: Get the abit IP35-e for $75 after MIR. Great board, many people have gotten excellent OC results using this. Low price is icing.

COOLING: Stick with the stock cooling unless you are going for a major OC. Or some people were talking about a cooler about equivalent to the Freezer 7 pro for like $1 after MIR, just look around here a bit.

VIDEO: No No No. Don't neuter your system like that. Wait until the end of the month and get the nVidia 8800GT 512MB for around $250. Looks like it will offer excellent mid-high level performance at an excellent price.

HDD: That WD is a good drive and great value for $60.

DVD-RW: Just get what is cheap & SATA, this one is a great buy at $32 shipped.

CASE: This is the most subjective choice of the entire build and you should just pick what looks good to you. Try to find a case with a 90mm (or better yet 120mm) fan in the back for good airflow at low noise levels.

POWER SUPPLY: Get a good one. The Antec Earthwatts EA430 for $40 after MIR is a good choice or for a bit more power the Cooler Master RS-650 is great for $70 after MIR.

You will also want to get a good monitor, I saw this Hanns-G HG-216DPO 22" LCD on Newegg for $215 after MIR.

The parts for this system, including the e6750, 4GB RAM, 8800gt and the 650W PS would be about $750. Throw in your case of choice and a monitor and you are looking in the $1000-1100 range for a system that will run most games at high resolutions with eye candy enabled. And it will be a much better deal than the "$1200 custom build."

One word of caution: building computers is addictive. Enter at your own risk.

 

[stingygrrl]

I just did all this research for a new build I'm doing- this is what I bought.

I went with the SATA Samsung 203N with lightscribe - $36 shipped at newegg
and I wouldn't go open box for anything. You can also get a $65 shipped seagate 250 gb? hard drive there. usually $0.20/gb indicates a hot deal, but I couldn't wait; I want to overclock my new 2160. I might get a 2d, 3rd or 4th hard drive on black friday

I went with the RAM deal serpentroyal linked above and a different motherboard- the gigabyte p35-DS3L for about $98 shipped from ewiz. if you get teh IP35E you might have to flash the BIOS; I don't know what it ships with. Do you know how to do that?

the 2160 was from clubit.com I'm going with the stock cooler that intel supplies with it, for the time being.

4 coolermaster 120mm case fans (look for 4 pack for $9.99) and a 3 to 4 pin adapter at svc.com

case - got the coolermaster 330 case for $25 AR at newegg and the antec earthwatts power same place for $20 AR

No one I know games so I went with the 7600GT for about $50 AR (deal over) and last time I chose a monitor for someone, I went with a Dell 24" widescreen. I forget the model #. I'd choose an ultrasharp monitor over a $250 video card, but I only 2D net and biz apps.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
- Abit IP35-E...$61 AR @ MWAVE ($5 PriceGrabber Review)
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/vie...a=BA23929&RSKU=BA23929

Better deal than I found on same motherboard.

- HDD..$50 or less for 160GB Seagate/Maxtor on sale at Staples, Office Depot, Frys

If you can get the WD 320 for $60 it's worth the extra $10 for twice the capacity.

- CoolerMaster CPU cooler...FREE AR
http://www.clubit.com/product_...il.cfm?itemno=A1906910

^ That's the cooler deal I was looking for.

- Antec Earthwatts 380 PSU...$20 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817371005

I would probably go for a bit more power, it's not that much more for a stronger PS.

Also, cpu is up to you, whether you plan to OC or not. If you want to do it, the e21x0 chips can save some real cash but you have to OC to get up to the same level of performance given by the other processors at stock speeds. Cache level has a significant impact on gaming performance (see here) that can be partially offset with higher overclocking. The e21x0 series with only 1MB cache are somewhat hampered for their gaming capability compared to even the e4x00 series with 2MB and moreso the e6x50 series with 4MB cache.

The e4500 is a great buy right now at $130 (same price as the e4400?!?) and with a bit of overclocking would yield excellent performance.

 

[stingygrrl]

Originally posted by: Build it Myself
Point being, I forgot to mention, is that this setup costs something like $800 and I might be going overboard or picking overpriced parts. If it comes down to it, I don't mind running a lower processor and overclocking like I mentioned as long as it's something that I could handle doing and managing. I understand there's a significant increase in heat, and in turn I imagine I can expect a shorter life span. If that's the case then I would like to at least get a good mobo that I can upgrade over time (I've been reading a lot about intel's new chipsets that are supposed to come out in Nov. and into Q1)...

when the time comes to upgrade, believe me, you are NOT going to want to reuse your motherboard!! you will want the newest one. I just did this in June, and here I am getting a whole new setup! (granted it's for someone else, but I got the itch again to build one, so it's all the fun of shopping with no bills! )

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: stingygrrl
I wouldn't go open box for anything.

I agree, open box items on Newegg are for vetran builders only, often missing parts that we have in our infamous storage closet but a newbie is almost certainly going to lack. These items also were often returned for a reason and may have serious problems.

However, OEM is not the same as "open box." OEM is simply a bare drive, usually with no software/cables. This is not a problem, your motherboard will come with the necessary cables and software is easy to find online if it is needed.

Regarding BIOS flashing, it's not difficult and there are numerous instructions on how to do it online. The IP35-e board will support all of the processors we have recommended here out of the box.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Stock IP35-E 11 BIOS works with E21x0 and E4xx0 CPUs. This is an Abit IP35 Pro minus bells and whistles. Solid and electrolytic Japanese caps will last at least 5 to 7 years. They share the same main power circuit. I've seen one member @ 4.0GHz with Q6600. PWM is in the mid 60s.

 

[stingygrrl]

true it will, but he has to reset the CMOS and flash and it might be over his head for his 1st build (for teh double boot issue). Plus it might have too many variables to troubleshoot if he has issues? It was more than I could tolerate at teh moment!

OEM is fine, but the WD hard drive he referenced was open box. That's why I suggested the other hard drive for the same price. I've been looking all over for the past 3 days, and that was the best deal I could find right now.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: stingygrrl
true it will, but he has to reset the CMOS and flash and it might be over his head for his 1st build (for teh double boot issue). It was more than I could tolerate at teh moment!

OEM is fine, but the WD hard drive he referenced was open box. That's why I suggested the other hard drive for the same price. I've been looking all over for the past 3 days, and that was the best deal I could find right now.

These processors we are recommending have been available long enough that the motherboard will support them out of the box, no need for flash to get things working.

Good catch there on the OB HDD, I thought he had found an excellent deal on a new WD somewhere. I would second the Seagate 250 for $65, that's a great drive at a good price with enough storage room for the next year or so at least.


EDIT: By the way, welcome to the forums, Build it Myself. Hope you enjoy your stay here and learn a lot. Like I mentioned before, building is addictive and once you start you will probably never quit.

 

[stingygrrl]

Originally posted by: Denithor

These processors we are recommending have been available long enough that the motherboard will support them out of the box, no need for flash to get things working.

but it has a double boot issue...

 

[21stHermit]

John,

Here's a Bens Bargains Link for a custom HP desktop with $400 off $999 deal. For $600 you can get a Quad or E6750, plus 2GB of RAM, plus +++!!!

You will not be able to OC it, but its hassle free, includes a loaded OS . . . yada yada!!!

HTH
Hermit

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: stingygrrl

Originally posted by: Denithor

These processors we are recommending have been available long enough that the motherboard will support them out of the box, no need for flash to get things working.

but it has a double boot issue...

Use 13 BIOS. Flashing in windows is safe. Just do it right after installation of chipset, sound, and LAN drivers with BIOS at default. If you're going to assemble a PC from scratch, then you better have a $5 floppy drive. Not buying a good board because you don't want to flash BIOS is silly.

Double post is an inherent problem with all P965 and P35 chipsets. It's a way for the system to check/reset strap.

 

[Build it Myself]

I think you've just exceeded my knowledge in this field a little bit when it comes to flashing systems and BIOS setups. I've read how to adjust BIOS when OC'ing and have done it before so that's alright, but I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding double boots and what have you.

Thanks everyone for the help, I think it's been very helpful and I'd still appreciate any suggestions. I didn't know for example that the HD I picked was open box! Oops! And thank you for the suggestion regarding the graphics card, that kind of information is something I just don't have the experience to judge.

stingygrrl, thanks for the advice on the motherboards; I thought it would be a good investment to buy something higher up, but I suppose that makes sense with the speed of technology change.

SerpentRoyal your build is really cheap! LOL, even swapping out a part here or there it's still significantly less than I thought you could even get a computer for! Thanks for the info regarding those parts, some of those are free or quite near it! To me that's just, well LOL, my jaw dropped.

Denithor, thanks for the sound advice regarding the CPU's. I will probably overclock once I've got a better handle on the concept. The main reason I think the 6x50's would be better than dropping to a 4xxx is the cache sizes, and after reading the link that was put in here regarding the U3 game, it seems it does in fact make a difference. 6550 seems to be a good choice and from what I seem to understand is that it can be overclocked to surpass what a 6750 or 6850 could do anyway without spending the money, right? If that's the case than it makes little sense to do otherwise unless there's a great pricetag somewhere.

My last thing is again regarding the cases. I've seen someone recommend picking up 120mm fans or 90mm fans...do these not come with the cases? For example the X-Cruiser case I picked says it does have fans, though that being the case I'm not sure if I can add any or if it's necessary to add any.

Thanks again,

John

 

[stingygrrl]

many cases come with a rear fan and you can usually add one in the front, and perhaps the side. I went ahead and ordered them because I like having more and the ones I picked are about 20 decibels, and pretty quiet, I hope. The standard ones in the case may be noisier. I dunno. Anyway, it was like $15 so I didn't give it much thought.
The Abit board they're recommending is fine. I'm sort of a n00b (been outta the OC loop for a while) and didn't feel like spending hours finding solutions to potential problems, so I got the gigabyte board for about $30 more. I just thought I'd give you another option.
G'luck!

edit
these are the items I referenced (newegg.com):

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250310AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148261
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy $64.99
1 SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM
Item #: N82E16827151154
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Build it Myself
And thank you for the suggestion regarding the graphics card, that kind of information is something I just don't have the experience to judge.

There is an interesting post over at xbitlabs covering several of the lower end video cards (up to the 8800gts-320MB). Their basic conclusion is that even the HD2600XT/8600GTS cards are not suitable for gaming above 1280x1024 at all and in many games are to slow even for that resolution. Read the final page here for their summary and look at the particular games if you have favorites.

Anandtech also has a good summary of card performance on the new UT3 here that shows more of the same. Basically you get a huge performance jump by going to the 8800 series cards.

The new 8800gt-512MB is supposed to be even better than the current 8800gts (320 and 640MB versions) so take this into your consideration.

SerpentRoyal your build is really cheap! LOL, even swapping out a part here or there it's still significantly less than I thought you could even get a computer for! Thanks for the info regarding those parts, some of those are free or quite near it! To me that's just, well LOL, my jaw dropped.

If you look around the forums a bit more here (read the hot deals forum for sure and even the WTS forum if you don't mind good used equipment) you can save an incredible amount of money and still get excellent performance.

Denithor, thanks for the sound advice regarding the CPU's. I will probably overclock once I've got a better handle on the concept. The main reason I think the 6x50's would be better than dropping to a 4xxx is the cache sizes, and after reading the link that was put in here regarding the U3 game, it seems it does in fact make a difference. 6550 seems to be a good choice and from what I seem to understand is that it can be overclocked to surpass what a 6750 or 6850 could do anyway without spending the money, right? If that's the case than it makes little sense to do otherwise unless there's a great pricetag somewhere.

The e6550 is a great chip even at stock, see the comments at the bottom of this page. If you overclock you can easily push it up to the same level as the e6750 or even the e6850 while saving a significant amount of cash. Of course, for $20 more the e6750 is a little hard to argue against as it provides a 14% increase in speed for an 11% increase in cost. The e6750 would also allow you to reach the same OC speed without pushing the rest of your system as hard (only have to increase fsb to 375 to get 3GHz with the e6750 which should be very easy).

My last thing is again regarding the cases. I've seen someone recommend picking up 120mm fans or 90mm fans...do these not come with the cases? For example the X-Cruiser case I picked says it does have fans, though that being the case I'm not sure if I can add any or if it's necessary to add any.

Assuming this is the red case you talked about, if you look at the specs it comes with 2x80mm fans. 80mm fans tend to be louder than 90mm/120mm. The case looks like you could possible swap for 90mm fans but it doesn't specify so you might have to mod it slightly to make it work. This isn't a dealbuster, just be aware that you will have a higher noise level than if you can use larger fans.

I personally love the In Win cases available at Newegg, they're top quality with nice fans although they have a more conservative (read: boring) look.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Even a blind squirrel can overclock the IP35-E. There's a big support post (Abit IP35-E review) at MB forum. You can also scan the CPU/Overclocking forum for folks with IP35-E and E21x0 north of 3.2GHz. Above 3.0GHz, you'll need bechmark proggies to differentiate between E21x0 and E4xx0 at the same speed. Don't fall for the Intel marketing hype.

As for the PSU, your rig will never pull more than 250 watts. The Earthwatts 380 is a Seasonic-built PSU. It's equivalent to the basic 450 watter. Comes with 3 yr warranty. $20 AR is a steal. Unless you live in a 110F room with 90% humidity, I wouldn't worry about the PSU running out of gas.

I have no problem oveclocking my CPU up to 3.6GHz with an Antec SP350 and 7300 GPU. The maximum load is under 200 watts.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: 21stHermit
John,

Here's a Bens Bargains Link for a custom HP desktop with $400 off $999 deal. For $600 you can get a Quad or E6750, plus 2GB of RAM, plus +++!!!

You will not be able to OC it, but its hassle free, includes a loaded OS . . . yada yada!!!

HTH
Hermit

No, you can't get a quad for that price...the q6600 is an upgrade available for an additional $150. And this price includes a pure crap 64MB 7100 video card that's not worth the silicone it took to manufacture it so you would also need a new one of those.

And, and, and...

In my experience you don't get half the system from the builders you can assemble yourself at a similar cost. And the assembly can be quite fun with a sense of accomplishment when done and your new rig is up and running.

Granted, you are 100% absolutely correct on one point: these prebuilt boxes are hassle free.

 

[Build it Myself]

http://www.clubit.com/product_....cfm?itemno=CA1311449#
how's this case? This looks like what everyone seems to be suggesting.

Also, I'm curious, are the rebates for things like the HP RAM good as long as you ORDER by the 31st, or do I have to mail the rebates out by the 31st? Just curious because I don't want to order it and find out I can't get a rebate!! LOL

 

[SerpentRoyal]

HP rebates are golden. See posts from those who have submitted their rebates.

 

[Build it Myself]

http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=CA1311450
How's this for a case? I just posted another but my post seems to have vanished...

 

[Denithor]

Nice case and has the 120mm rear fan that should help to keep it cool and quiet.

Enjoy your first build!

 

[Build it Myself]

http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=CA9602834
http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=CA9654864
I keep hearing that the GPU is the bottleneck in speed and not really the processor, so I suppose these two are about the best I can find for a "reasonable" price. However I'd like to hear input on whether or not they are necessary and/or which would be better, or even if there are other options.

Anyway, I went ahead and took some of the advice and bought a few of the things. I got the case I listed in the previous thread, the fan that was free (awesome deal!) The 4gigs of HP 667ram, and the NEC DVD/rw that was recommended. I'm going to wait to hear more input before I buy the GPU, CPU, mobo, and power source. I'd like more info about the mobo's particularly since I'm reading about double boots and flashing the cards and what have you but honestly I have no idea what is being said nor if I should worry about it. If a better board means doing something like this then I will but I have no idea what it means. Again keep in mind I'll probably go with the 6750 that was recommended along with a board that will match well regarding oc'ing when I can finally grasp the concept.