I could use some advice...

[eye smite]

Looks like your learning how to do this fine and you have a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I'll share my experiences. Intel pushed me away from their products 9 years ago. Reason being is every 3 to 6 months they're changing an architecture or chipset that is not backwards in compatible. In other words, they make a better cpu, but it won't work on your 6 month old MB. I started with AMD when the K6-2 cpu's came out and was surprised. It was handling loads better than my family's P2 at the same speed. Like you I grew tired of factory built machines and began building them myself with the original Athlons, then Athlon Thunderbirds. My experience with AMD has been consistent, I've alwasy been able to upgrade to a newer or faster cpu they've made with a 6 month to 1 yr old MB. You can't say that with intel's. Now, currently intel has changed their attitude, but all those core 2's they've sold are going to be obsolete when point to point comes out in core 2, and I doubt existing MB's will be able to upgrade to them. You've got a nice system spec'd out, should work very nicely for you, but is it going to stay as is or are you looking to do tweak upgrades over a 1 to 2 year period. If you're building it as is til it blows up, then either amd or intel will do just fine. If you're looking to upgrade over the course of 2 years, I'd recommend amd. Just keep in mind that if it weren't for amd, you wouldn't have this wonderful crop of cpu's to pick from as they lead intel in performance from 2003 til 2006, forcing intel to measure up. I feel the site here is too biased on intel from a purely performance point of view and factors like reliability, future upgrades, and how much return will you get on your investment are not really discussed. Ultimately it comes down to being happy with what you've built and that takes building 2 or 3 systems before you really know. Good luck.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: eye smite
In other words, they make a better cpu, but it won't work on your 6 month old MB.

Today's motherboards (most) will support the current generation of chips as well as the next generation (Penryn). In about a year Nehalem will launch and I believe that will be a totally new socket. So if you build today you can expect to get a Penryn late next year (quad core) and that should last another year or so before the upgrade bug forces you to refresh completely.

Regarding GPU, this is indeed a crucial choice that drastically affects how well the overall system handles games (no real impact on much anything else). If you follow the links from this page you will find benchmarks comparing the to-be-launched (Monday) 8800gt to current generation 8800gts/gtx and other cards. At an expected price point of $250 for the 512MB model this card is generally expected to blow past the current GTS and even approach the GTX level of performance. I would certainly wait until next week and see what everyone posts with release cards (many of the major sites have probably already tested and are just prevented from posting by NDA until the launch).

If the 8800gt performs as expected it should provide better performance than the 8800gts you are considering at a lower price point.

 

[eye smite]

Well like I said this has been my experience in the past with intel. I'm sure they've changed or there wouldn't be a core 2 architecture since they were stuck on netburst for so long. It will take quite sometime of watching intel to see if they've changed enough for me to buy their products again. I'm stilll thinking I won't, but then that's biased. lol We'll just have to wait and see eh.

 

[Build it Myself]

eye smite I know what you're saying about Intel actually, that's why I've run AMD ever since I knew there was a choice other than Intel. But the reason I'm gonna go with Intel is because AMD is in a slump right now regarding their tech. Their not spending their R&D correctly and producing products that will compete with Intel. Instead it seems that they are more interested in absorbing their new acquisitions, which is fine and good, but when Intel has a 21x larger market stake and is spending like 8billion modernizing to go with the 45mm, it's hard to see how producing months old designs is going to stack up. Yes they are more stable and I like that, and the prices are about the same and sometimes lower, but when it comes to side by side benchmarks (from what I've been reading) AMD is consistantly at the bottom, even when stacked up against "lower" intel models.

I'd love to run with AMD but I just don't think they can supply me with a computer that will offer longevity, and in 2 years if I decide to upgrade (I've heard of P2P) and if that is really available, then I'm gonna need to just refresh everything anyway. That's the way I see it anyhow. No matter where I go I'm gonna be using completely different parts in 2 years regardless. And besides, it seems that Intel can OC better, so that being said, a cheap Intel chip will give me the ability to learn how to do this and understand how the process works so I'm better adapted in the future.

 

[eye smite]

I can see your point of view, I just see things differently. Again, you wouldn't have the core2 option if amd hadn't made intel muster up. AMD carries a larger market share in overseas markets even though core 2 has come out. Myself, the fastest or highest overclockable cpu isn't much of a factor, longevity is. AMD has always been reliable as I still have an athlon t-bird socket a 850mhz running at my folks place, now that's longevity since it's 8 years old. My Father runs windows 98 on it because it will support his old dos based scale train inventory program from 1993 which he started running under windows 3.1 lol

I wish you the best of luck in bulding and learning, it can be a bit frustrating at times and it can be really fun. The sense of accomplishment really makes you feel good. Be sure and touch the case frame often when building it to help stay static free, although I've never fried anything with static, it can still happen.

On a side note, I do voluntary research for world community grid. It's a cpu intensive program that does computational chemistry units towards medical research of different kinds. I have 1 P4 3.2 ghz I bought from work when laid off for $150 with monitor. It cranks out about 2 units a day averaging 18 to 20 hours of cpu time. My 5600+ cranks out about 12 units a day averaging right at 2 days cpu time in one day. In fact the intel is 1 of 8 computers I run here, the rest are all amd, and even the turion64 at 1.8ghz averages 1 more unit a day over that intel netburst architecture. Something else that will save your pocket book is kind of what you're doing. I ride the wave on technology, I don't try to stay at the crest of that wave. Just remember faster isn't always better, intel proved that with netburst. lol Good luck.

 

[Denithor]

Just to make sure I didn't come across as an "Intel fanboy" or something, during the days of Netburst I ran an A64-3000+ then an A64-3500+ and that held me until last year when I hopped on the C2D bandwagon with an e6400. I've been happy with both camps and generally just buy whatever has better performance at the time I need a new chip. I probably won't upgrade again until late next year as the quad-core cpus become necessary for my applications.

And I definitely agree with your comment about staying off the crest of the technology wave, you can save a lot of money by simply getting mid-high gear instead of the latest greatest (that is usually obsolete itself within weeks or months).

@ Build it Myself: ^ is why we have recommended the parts we have, keeping overall cost down while pilling on the performance suitable for your needs.

 

[SantaAna]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Even a blind squirrel can overclock the IP35-E. There's a big support post (Abit IP35-E review) at MB forum. You can also scan the CPU/Overclocking forum for folks with IP35-E and E21x0 north of 3.2GHz. Above 3.0GHz, you'll need bechmark proggies to differentiate between E21x0 and E4xx0 at the same speed. Don't fall for the Intel marketing hype.

As for the PSU, your rig will never pull more than 250 watts. The Earthwatts 380 is a Seasonic-built PSU. It's equivalent to the basic 450 watter. Comes with 3 yr warranty. $20 AR is a steal. Unless you live in a 110F room with 90% humidity, I wouldn't worry about the PSU running out of gas.

I have no problem oveclocking my CPU up to 3.6GHz with an Antec SP350 and 7300 GPU. The maximum load is under 200 watts.

Hey....those squirrels are trained!