"I Don't get all the hate for Dragon Age 2" - Take 2

[Borealis7]

a few weeks ago there was a thread here with that title, but the op ended up confusing DA2 with DA:O. I wanted to explain my stand and put in a good word for the "much frowned-upon" DA2.

A little about me: I only play RPGs and RPG Hybrids whether they take 3rd person, Turn-based, or shooter form. from 1997 onward, i've played all the major titles.
having said that, i want to explain why i liked DA2.

i'm nearing the end of my first playthrough, on "hard" setting, playing a mage. Yes the quests are repetitive, yes most encounters are easy, yes i know i cant outfit my party but i'm still having a lot of fun playing the HUGE amount of sidequests and all the companion interactions.

here's a little math equation i formulated. the way i see it:
Dragon Age 2 = (DA:O / 2) + (Mass Effect 2 / 2)

why half of DA:O?
fantasy themed, similar combat, top-down strategic view, classes, spells and skills, party interactions, decision making, similar graphics engine and lots and lots and lots of dialogue!

but not without its cons: no party outfitting, more consolized feel to it, heavy re-use of caves and dungeons (there's more but that's not the point)

why half of ME2?
not in space (duh...), companion quests and interaction, more action-oriented than strategic, smaller party like ME, no exploration (the equivalent of galaxies in ME) etc' etc'

so what i'm saying is, that if you liked DA:O and ME2 then DA2 will be a very fun game for you to play. you just have to focus more on the party interactions and put aside the little annoyances mentioned earlier. treat it as an epic journey, explore every corner of every map (day and night) to find all the hidden goodies.

my party consists of Me (Mage), Andres (Mage, hates templars), Fenris (hates mages) and Avelin (supports the templars). the constant bickering of these guys is pure gold. even as i run from place to place they keep arguing! try to follow what they are saying and see how much dialogue was put in to this game.

its a great game with great production values, even though most people would've liked it to be more of a "hardcore" RPG. but which RPG exactly is hardcore these days anyway?

and if this post was too long for you to read, go back to your twitch FPSs.

 

[darkewaffle]

I still haven't finished it, but I never thought it was that bad either. All 3-4 of my friends who picked up DA2 really enjoyed it, as well as DA. The problem is the kind of people who post in a gaming forum tend to be very... attached to their games, so when DA2 came out and was a different kind of experience than DA, it was taken very personally.

 

[blackened23]

Its not terrible but it pales in comparison to DA:O. It could have been so much more if EA hadn't forced bioware to rush it out the door.

 

[Oyeve]

The hate for DAO2 stems from the greatness that was DAO. DAO was a true RPG and DAO2, IMO and many others, was a consolized button mashing mess. I personally dont have hate toward DAO2 as I have only played the demo on an xbox, but being that I played DAO on a pc with 3 24" monitors, I can see why there is some negativity toward DAO2.

 

[RebelCapitalist]

Never played it. I loved DA:O though (didn't play expansion).

Soon as I can find it for $10 or less, I'm in regardless of the reviews.

 

[Jeeebus]

To me, the biggest flaw of DA2 was the complete lack of an engaging story. DA:O was epic - DA:2 was not. There was just nothing gripping about the story - ok, I'll do some errands from you so that I can get rich and powerful and have my own mansion which will allow me to... uhhh... still be everyone's errand boy? That pretty much sums up the entire story, with a couple stupid/out-of-place twists thrown in here and there to distract you from the fact that nothing really happens the entire game.

I could live with the consolization and other flaws, but the story really made this game a chore to finish.

 

[Arglebargle]

Bad/lessened interface and camera control. Combat and animation changed to much more action-y stuff. Blatent corners cut in reuse of dungeon/mission art. Bad story pacing. ETC.

DA2 was rushed out, and suffered from problems specific to that error. It was also marketed poorly. It was presented as a sequel to a big hit, but preceded to cut out bits and otherwise mess with a lot of the parts of that big hit. If it had been presented as Dragon Age: Hawke!, the standalone action game set in the Dragon Age universe, it would probably have escaped some of the complaint.

The streamlining they did, did not find favor with folks who liked the previous game. Whereas, for example in the ME2, getting rid of the abomination of a vehicle was a great thing!

I played the demo, and the changes there were enough to let me know I wasn't interested. It was a huge failure, for me: I pretty much wouldn't play DA2 if it were free.

 

[IcePickFreak]

I'm surprised they didn't release a DLC that made you go through that same friggen dungeon one last time. :thumbsdown:

 

[Dumac]

i'm nearing the end of my first playthrough, on "hard" setting, playing a mage. Yes the quests are repetitive, yes most encounters are easy, yes i know i cant outfit my party but i'm still having a lot of fun playing the HUGE amount of sidequests and all the companion interactions.

Huge amount of corridors my ass. DA2 was like Corridors: The RPG, except instead of multiple corridors, it was the same one over and over.

Talking about companion interaction, why don't you mention the many, many quest ruining bugs? Like how on the beginning of Act 3, the end cutscene of merill's companion quest immediately played even though I had done no quest. And the quest couldn't be done until I talked to some NPC to 'reset' the quest.

here's a little math equation i formulated. the way i see it:
Dragon Age 2 = (greed / 2) + (vanity / 2)

Fixed that for you. Bioware was vain and thought that since they were a favorite of RPG makers, they could be greedy and released a half-made game.

but not without its cons: no party outfitting, more consolized feel to it, heavy re-use of caves and dungeons (there's more but that's not the point)

"heavy re-use of caves and dungeons" = there are only like 4 environments, and just as few enemies. Quest A? Takes place in the same area as Quest B, C, D, E, F, G, even though they are described as different places through the quest. Hell, one quest has you going into the 'sewers', which is the exact same lower city environment. Not to mention the game all takes place in one damned city. And they didn't even bother to make it an open environment. It's like fast traveling...inside on city!

Not to mention the terrible, terrible plot of both main quests and side quests, coupled with retarded voice acting of a bipolar main character and the rest of his shallow two-dimensional squad. The gameplay wasn't great either, lacking polish and precision.

an epic journey, explore every corner of every map (day and night) to find all the hidden goodies.

AN EPIC JOURNEY? Did you even play the game? And explore every corner of the map? Are you serious? That's like telling one to explore every corner of the minesweeper grid.

my party consists of Me (Mage), Andres (Mage, hates templars), Fenris (hates mages) and Avelin (supports the templars). the constant bickering of these guys is pure gold. even as i run from place to place they keep arguing! try to follow what they are saying and see how much dialogue was put in to this game.

It seemed like less party-chat than in DA:O, and don't get me started on Ander's character.

its a great game with great production values

No it wasn't. It was a mediocre (at best) game, with the only 'production values' of being rushed out by a giant corporation to appease moneygrabbers. There was absolutely no pride, dedication, or effort put into DA2. It was half a game, and didn't deserve to be released.

 

[Dumac]

To me, the biggest flaw of DA2 was the complete lack of an engaging story. DA:O was epic - DA:2 was not. There was just nothing gripping about the story - ok, I'll do some errands from you so that I can get rich and powerful and have my own mansion which will allow me to... uhhh... still be everyone's errand boy? That pretty much sums up the entire story, with a couple stupid/out-of-place twists thrown in here and there to distract you from the fact that nothing really happens the entire game.

I could live with the consolization and other flaws, but the story really made this game a chore to finish.

Yes, the story was downright terrible. From main quests to side quests. Each plot twist was painfully executed. God, thinking about it makes me want to vomit.

 

[Dumac]

I still haven't finished it, but I never thought it was that bad either. All 3-4 of my friends who picked up DA2 really enjoyed it, as well as DA. The problem is the kind of people who post in a gaming forum tend to be very... attached to their games, so when DA2 came out and was a different kind of experience than DA, it was taken very personally.

Well all 10 of my friends who got it thought it was complete crap.

So I guess I win?

 

[Arg Clin]

I think the main problem of DA2 is that Bioware took a perfectly working game style and franchise, dumbed it down to kiddie level and put it on crack.

Spawning ninjas and so much reuse of levels that you get lost frequently in time and quests. What was that about? Was it really necessary to fix something that wasn't broken?

As for the story; that's really a matter of personal taste and preference I suppose. Safe to say though it was a completely different type of storytelling than that of DA:O. It never really felt like Hawke made any real difference in anything. The characters seemed rather odd and never more than acquaintances to Hawke. With the possible exception of Varric - he was well written, I'll give that much.

DA2 also suffered greatly for the very wrongly put title Dragon Age 2 It was NOT a sequel to DA:O - it was a completely different story. It had few and far between hints to the DA:O story - nowhere enough to call it a squeal, and it missed all the major cliffhangers after DA:O and Witch Hunt (and possibly other DLC's)

All in all - DA2 was ok for spending time, but nowhere near what we all know Bioware can do when they spend the time and ressources to do it. Both in terms of gameplay and storywriting.

 

[DaveSimmons]

This is why Bioware should have let Obsidian do the sequel as usual -- the ending would have been botched, but at least we'd have liked the first 80% of the game

 

[Zorander]

I think the main problem of DA2 is that Bioware took a perfectly working game style and franchise, dumbed it down to kiddie level and put it on crack.

Exactly my thought in the first few minutes of me starting DA2.

The story is not bad. Quite immersive, in fact, especially the end of chapter 2. The whole experience unfortunately pales in comparison to DA:O and that's where the disappointment comes in. For a game following DA:O (sequel or not), it does not do justice to the franchise and, in fact, it almost looks like a mockery.

 

[rchiu]

The biggest thing that pissed me off is the lack of choice in companions and how you can play them. Why is it that I must have Anders if I want a healer, and Varric if I want a range support? Healer is a traditional role in any RPG, (yeah I know how healing sucks too in DA2 with wave of enemies and long heal cool down, but that's another story) but Anders is such a whinny b!atch that even gay community hated for senseless hitting on the male character. It's such a pain to play him but without him, there is no other choice for healer unless you play one. Why is it that you cannot make Merrill into a healer?

Combining the lack of healers and how healing works, DA2 basically tell you to forget healers and just do healing pots. That's fine but that take out another enjoyable element of RPG.

 

[bloodlover]

Well Dragon Age Origins was a good RPG by many standards so the expectations were high and instead of offering something at least similar (if not better) that the last game, we got a dump with bad camera, no RP value, repetitive gameplay/location/quests/, no customization, bad interface etc. I actually don't see any reason for playing this game at all other than mashing the buttons of my keyboard, but if I want to do that I'll just play some Guilty Gear or other beat'em up game.

 

[digitard]

Bioware used DA2 as a test platform to try to mesh the hardcore and casual genre's. Some things worked and some things didn't.

Compared to DA:O the game was a huge let down. Sure things were improved in some aspects (I loved the new combat, and I actually did like the fact I could pay less time outfitting my group, and more time on the game). Other things didn't work.

Was it a good game? Yeah, it was. I enjoyed my time playing it.
Was it a worthy "sequel"? No. It was like a DA1.5 Remix.

The Grey Warden story was fucking amazing. They completely ignored every single thing about that story with the exception of acknowledging the things that occurred with your DA:O world, and the same "enemies". They setup this amazing sequel with DA:O's ending + the DLC (especially the final one), but the only way it was referenced was in the final moments.

I get what they tried to do. They tried to weave a bigger tale and in DA3 we'll see the fruits... but they did it poorly on that front. They didn't make you understand the Champion, or what ties to the Grey Warden there may be in some way. Obviously there is a tie (I, personally, think the portal they went through went into the past and he's the child... just saying). Anyhow... get it right next time.

So is it worth a play through? Sure. I did enjoy it, but it's not a proper sequel in my view.

They need to go back, and take the good things (Combat, etc) and work them into the amazing things from DA:O and make a proper DA3, and weave 1&2 together. They already did the damage from 2 as far as the story goes so might as well make it work in the long run.

 

[BudAshes]

umm i never confused dragon age 2 with da:O. You are the confused one my friend. And this didn't need another thread...

 

[darkewaffle]

How Anders changed did really annoy me, he was awesome in Awakening but seemed like a shadow of himself in DA2. Though I don't know if there's an explanation for that in the game or not, I know he had a time of it seeing Justice's predicament so I guess it's feasible he really was that traumatized at some point after Awakening.

 

[QuantumPion]

How Anders changed did really annoy me, he was awesome in Awakening but seemed like a shadow of himself in DA2. Though I don't know if there's an explanation for that in the game or not, I know he had a time of it seeing Justice's predicament so I guess it's feasible he really was that traumatized at some point after Awakening.

I don't like how they turned him gay. Sure, call me a bigot, I don't care. If you found out your best friend was actually gay and in love with you, you would be weirded out too.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

PC gaming sequels are just like Hollywood movie sequels. Expect the sequel to pale in comparison to the original and be pleasantly surprised when the sequel is good.

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't like how they turned him gay. Sure, call me a bigot, I don't care. If you found out your best friend was actually gay and in love with you, you would be weirded out too.

I didn't even get to that part lol, though that does seem odd since he was such a womanizer in Awakening. I played a chick through Origin/Awakening, I forget if there was the opportunity to hook up with Anders in the expansion though; I wonder if you had if it would have played out any differently. Or if Anders would behave differently in DA2 with a female main character.

Admittedly Leliana and that dark elf Frenchy assassin in DA were both switch hitters and it played a part on Leliana's DLC as well as DA's original campaign to a point, so I guess it's not altogether that surprising.

 

[QuantumPion]

I didn't even get to that part lol, though that does seem odd since he was such a womanizer in Awakening. I played a chick through Origin/Awakening, I forget if there was the opportunity to hook up with Anders in the expansion though; I wonder if you had if it would have played out any differently. Or if Anders would behave differently in DA2 with a female main character.

Admittedly Leliana and that dark elf Frenchy assassin in DA were both switch hitters and it played a part on Leliana's DLC as well as DA's original campaign to a point, so I guess it's not altogether that surprising.

Yeah. It's not like they just "added the option for same sex relationships if you wanted to" ala DA:O. It felt like the writers were actively pushing an agenda. I'm hardly a prude but those aspects were a serious turn off for me.

 

[tedrodai]

PC gaming sequels are just like Hollywood movie sequels. Expect the sequel to pale in comparison to the original and be pleasantly surprised when the sequel is good.

That IS the wise way to approach things, and that is exactly how I approach movie sequels. However, somehow with video games I still can't help but to always expect better-or-at-least-as-good from a sequel, and thus get extremely dissapointed when it's not. Oh well.

I had fun with DA:O at first, but when I realized the boring and clunky combat never got any more fun, I just put the game down. I liked the story for the most part, but I didn't feel it was epic. Regardless, I'm just gonna judge DA2 by the haters' comments cause it fits my prejudices in this case .

 

[thespyder]

I didn't "Hate" DA2, but I felt such apathy for it that I never finished it. Twice. Got to about act 2 and just quit. Picked it up another time. Got almost to act 2 and then just said "I don't really care" and quit.

In the first place, it was marketed as sequel to DA:O. Which, OK, it is. But it wasn't marketed as "And we dumbed down all of the mechanics to make it a console port". nor was it marketed as "And we did as little work on it as you would expect from a $20 expansion, but still charged you the full $50."

The combat went from tactical in DA:O to wave after wave after wave of ninja mobs that pop up each consecutively once you kill the previous mob, in a COMPLETELY unrealistic manner in DA2. And their attempt at tactics and difficulty was to merely multiply the Hit Points by a factor of 10.

Then, you got really sick of visiting that same warehouse over and over and OVER again (and not the same tile set, THE SAME WAREHOUSE, room for room and corridor for corridor!). with an occasional visit to that same cave over and over and OVER again.

Then all of the customization you could do with your companions in the previous game was gone. You couldn't even change up your Main through anything but gender and class. The original game had 3 separate races and at least two separate backgrounds ON TOP of the gender/class choices. So Nine times as many choices. And the inventory just looked like an Alpha framework build.

It was like you go to your favorite five star resturaunt and have a wonderful 5 course steak dinner complete with a good wine and to die for cheesecake at the end. Pay your $50 and feel repleat and satisfied. Then the next time you go there they charge the same $50 for a McDonalds Hamburger and fries, and they shoe you out the door instead of even seating you at a table.

If it had come out first, it might have been OK and had a following. But considering it was about ten steps backwards from the original, was just really poor planning and design on the part of the Publisher.