"I Don't get all the hate for Dragon Age 2" - Take 2

[Sonikku]

The gist of the hate I see for DA 2 mostly seems to stem from it being pegged as a solid B kind of game, dwarfed by the AAA top tier quality game that the first one was.

If the first one didn't exist, people would probably love DA 2.

 

[PrayForDeath]

I partially agree with OP. It was a decent game overall, but some things really broke the immersion for me.

First, the repetitiveness of the environments/dungeons. Yes, this is a BIG one. Not only are you constrained to one city throughout the whole game, but you also have to crawl through the same dungeons over and over again.

You're 'supposedly' spending 10 years in this city, yet everything looks exactly the same on day 1 as it does on the final chapter. They could have remedied the issue of repetitiveness and made the game a lot less boring by actually changing the environment over time. You know, shops close, new market squares open, buildings get burned down, new alleyways and bridges get built, that sort of thing. But nooo they decided to leave the city in a permanent Faceless Void ulti (bonus points to whoever gets that reference) and let you run through the same areas over and over while picking different quests.

Kirkwall actually reminded me of The Witcher 1 (major spoilers ahead). The plot of that game is also centered around one city, Vizima. But the execution in that game is far better. You first start out in the outskirts of vizima, helping villagers in a rural area. The next chapter you move inside the city walls, but are only allowed to wander the poor districts. Then you move into the rich district. Then you leave the city entirely in chapter 4 and go to a nearby village (completely different settings, possibly the most beautiful in the game.) Then you go back in chapter 5 but you visit a section that was formerly closed due to quarantine. And the final chapter starts in a familiar part of the city, yet it is heavily altered due to the battle (fire/ruins/barricades), and then it ends in an entirely different dimension (arctic setting).

The only area that overlaps between chapters is the poor district (act 2 & 3) and you only have to visit it briefly in act 3.

The other thing that irks me with DA2 is the ending. You said you haven't finished it yet in your OP, so I'm not gonna spoil it here. But when you get there, I'm sure you'll agree with me.

 

[Bateluer]

Since I'm playing through DAO & Awakening again over the past two weeks as a Human Noble, I'm kinda jones-ing for more Dragon Age once I wrap up this Awakening playthrough.

Amazon has DA2 for 20 right now. I could have sworn I saw DA2 on Steam at one point, but its not showing up there now. There's no way in hell I'm buying anything from EA's Origin store. Does DA2 offer enough to justify 20 bucks? Or is there an 'Ultimate Edition' with all the DLC combined that makes a better buy? All the DLC for DAO&Awakening wasn't worth the time it took my enter my credit card number.



Dragon Age 3 is also confirmed.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/31/bioware-hints-at-the-future-of-dragon-age-dlc-and-3/

Dragon Age 3 will feature the world of Ferelden at war between mages and templars, with the player traveling around to places as far as Orlais and Tevinter to try and calm (or maybe stoke, knowing Bioware) the fighting. One of the maps shown was "four to five times larger than Ferelden," and cited as the future of the series.

The story of the first game's Warden "is over," apparently, and while there's still more of Hawke's story left to tell, writer David Gaider hinted that the protagonist of the third game would be yet another new hero. Co-op is possible but not likely, followers will keep their "unique" armor designs but still change visually over time, and combat will revolve around "preparation, teamwork, and positioning," with less button-smashing and more thought given to prepping your team for battle.

But, I am not certain if the writer is mistaking the kingdom of Ferelden for the continent of Thedas. Still, I'm more than a little interested in seeing Orlais and Tevinter. There's a lot of potential and story in the DA world.

 

[Dumac]

Since I'm playing through DAO & Awakening again over the past two weeks as a Human Noble, I'm kinda jones-ing for more Dragon Age once I wrap up this Awakening playthrough.

Amazon has DA2 for 20 right now. I could have sworn I saw DA2 on Steam at one point, but its not showing up there now. There's no way in hell I'm buying anything from EA's Origin store. Does DA2 offer enough to justify 20 bucks? Or is there an 'Ultimate Edition' with all the DLC combined that makes a better buy? All the DLC for DAO&Awakening wasn't worth the time it took my enter my credit card number.



Dragon Age 3 is also confirmed.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/31/bioware-hints-at-the-future-of-dragon-age-dlc-and-3/



But, I am not certain if the writer is mistaking the kingdom of Ferelden for the continent of Thedas. Still, I'm more than a little interested in seeing Orlais and Tevinter. There's a lot of potential and story in the DA world.

DA3 sounds crappy too. Like I'd buy that...

 

[Red Storm]

Fun fact: The name "Thedas" came from the community way, way back when all we had was an acknowledgement that the game existed and was being worked on. Us fans were always begging for any bit of info on the setting, and one of the forumers decided to call the world "Thedas" (The Dragon Age Setting) until we learned what the actual names of places would be. The Bioware devs liked the name and so they ran with it.

Good times...

 

[thespyder]

Since I'm playing through DAO & Awakening again over the past two weeks as a Human Noble, I'm kinda jones-ing for more Dragon Age once I wrap up this Awakening playthrough.

Amazon has DA2 for 20 right now. I could have sworn I saw DA2 on Steam at one point, but its not showing up there now. There's no way in hell I'm buying anything from EA's Origin store. Does DA2 offer enough to justify 20 bucks? Or is there an 'Ultimate Edition' with all the DLC combined that makes a better buy? All the DLC for DAO&Awakening wasn't worth the time it took my enter my credit card number.

up to you, but I personally don't think DA2 is worth $20. Particularly if your plan is to play DA:O/A and then Play DA2. You will be sorely disapointed. While you might get the "hours" out of it to justify the cost, the content is more like one might expect out of a 5 hour game (if that) and the stuff that was wrong with it (as compared to the Original) will annoy you all the more coming off a fresh play through of the clearly better game (aka the original). And it will probably make you regret the purchase long before you even reach the 5 hour mark (at least they did in my case).

Best if you are absolutely jonzing for more DA, play DA:O with a different character. sorry, best I got.

As for DA3, from what little I have read, they think that DA2 was the right direction to go. And although they "Say" they are going to do something to repair what was broken by looking at feedback from both DA:O and DA2 forums, I would bet that it is significantly DA2 with some minor tweaks. In either case, I don't plan to pre-order. In fact, I will do a LOT of post launch research before I put my money down, and will probably wait till the discount bin (sad isn't it?).

 

[Bateluer]

As for DA3, from what little I have read, they think that DA2 was the right direction to go. And although they "Say" they are going to do something to repair what was broken by looking at feedback from both DA:O and DA2 forums, I would bet that it is significantly DA2 with some minor tweaks. In either case, I don't plan to pre-order. In fact, I will do a LOT of post launch research before I put my money down, and will probably wait till the discount bin (sad isn't it?).

Thanks for the feedback. Hmm.

The impression I got from the PC Gamer links is that they saw either Love or Hate with DA2, and were pushing for a much larger game than DA2. Course, I don't think I'm expecting too much since they'll still be shipping it for the Xbox360 and PS3, graphics won't see much of an improvement at all. Plus, EA's stink is all over Bioware now. It'll be sad to see them destroy Bioware after only a couple games.

 

[thespyder]

The impression I got from the PC Gamer links is that they saw either Love or Hate with DA2, and were pushing for a much larger game than DA2. Course, I don't think I'm expecting too much since they'll still be shipping it for the Xbox360 and PS3, graphics won't see much of an improvement at all. Plus, EA's stink is all over Bioware now. It'll be sad to see them destroy Bioware after only a couple games.

That was the same article I read. And maybe I read stuff into what was said but it really read to me like they thought DA2 was a triumph. And that any negative reviews about the game were as a result of "Miss-aligned expectations" which for me was the most telling (and damning) line in the interview. In other words, people didn't like it because they expected it to be something other than what it was.

And they are right. We all expected it to be a good game. And we expected it to be a sequel in more than just name only to DA:O. And we expected it to expand on the elements of that game, not detract from them. We expected it to be at lest somewhat close to the tactical combat of the original. We expected that there would be decisions to make and that they would have meaning and be impactful. And we expected something more than a DLC (level) one off quest regurgitated and hyper inflated so much that it took 20 hours to complete. It was none of those things.

In the end, I didn't like the repetition of the same maps 15-20 times merely with monsters in different locations. But I could have lived with that. I didn't like the "Cartoony" look that they took with the elves. And I could just about live with that as well. And i didn't like the fact that it was only ever in one city, or the fact that they merely didn't enter in a graphics engine for equipment, or that your companions equipment never changed. And I definitely didn't like the "Corpse Explosions" that happened every time someone killed a baddie. But I could have lived with all of that if they hadn't gutted combat's tactical component and stripped away any hope of a decision tree for progression. And the "Wave Theory" of combat was (in most cases) unforgivable (to me).

But I get from the interview that they don't see any of that. Merely that players had unrealistic expectations. In other words, they were right and anyone who didn't like the game was in the wrong. So if DA3 does actually realize, based on that interview, I expect it to be Same art direction (and pallet etc...), same dumbed down combat mechanics (or possibly even more so). Same limitations as far as resources. But probably fewer reuse of individual maps.

In any event, they have a long road ahead of themselves to sway consumers like me that they are capable of putting out products on the calibre of some of their previous titles.

 

[skace]

The thing that really gets me with DA2, is not that Bioware would attempt to dumb down a game to broaden the intended audience or that they would rush a game out. It is that they chose to do it with a brand new series that they explicitly made for PC gamers - to be complex, deep and enjoyable. Dragon's Age was the "no apologies" PC RPG to come from Bioware since all of their recent RPGs had been half-assed action adventure RPGs for consoles.

So why do it to this series? Why? Did you forget why you created the series in the first place?

 

[thespyder]

So why do it to this series? Why? Did you forget why you created the series in the first place?

Two letters. "EA".

 

[Red Storm]

Two letters. "EA".

Yep. DA:O was in development long before EA bought them. But DA2 was the first game made while under EA's control. It's a textbook example of the EA anti-midas touch.

 

[Bateluer]

Yep. DA:O was in development long before EA bought them. But DA2 was the first game made while under EA's control. It's a textbook example of the EA anti-midas touch.

I think ME2 also spent a large portion of its dev time under EA's rule. Explains some things, but there was enough Bioware in it to keep it good. Have to see about ME3. :/


I did bite the bullet on DA2 from Amazon though, have to see if it gets me another vacation from the Bioware Community forums. When I ranted about how shitty Witch Hunt was, I got a week ban.

 

[Dumac]

I think ME2 also spent a large portion of its dev time under EA's rule. Explains some things, but there was enough Bioware in it to keep it good. Have to see about ME3. :/


I did bite the bullet on DA2 from Amazon though, have to see if it gets me another vacation from the Bioware Community forums. When I ranted about how shitty Witch Hunt was, I got a week ban.

Yeah, their forums are a joke.

 

[PrayForDeath]

I did bite the bullet on DA2 from Amazon though, have to see if it gets me another vacation from the Bioware Community forums. When I ranted about how shitty Witch Hunt was, I got a week ban.

Oh god, that DLC sucked balls.

 

[Mem]

The thing that really gets me with DA2, is not that Bioware would attempt to dumb down a game to broaden the intended audience or that they would rush a game out. It is that they chose to do it with a brand new series that they explicitly made for PC gamers - to be complex, deep and enjoyable. Dragon's Age was the "no apologies" PC RPG to come from Bioware since all of their recent RPGs had been half-assed action adventure RPGs for consoles.

So why do it to this series? Why? Did you forget why you created the series in the first place?

I wonder how much EA had influence on the game and also if Bioware had to compromise gameplay being its a console game as well,also we don't know how much of a deadline they had as well.

End of the day I was very disappointed with DA2 and wonder how they could think it was better then DAO?

 

[thespyder]

I wonder how much EA had influence on the game and also if Bioware had to compromise gameplay being its a console game as well,also we don't know how much of a deadline they had as well.

End of the day I was very disappointed with DA2 and wonder how they could think it was better then DAO?

Game play in DA2 was absolutely impacted by it having to be on a console as well. There are various forum posts to that exact effect. But if you want proof, sometime check out DA:O for the 360 and compare it to the PC version. You will clearly see the difference.

As far as them thinking that "DA2 was better than DA:O" I think a lot of that is marketing spin. If they publicly say something, a certain percentage of the market will believe it. I mean "Marketing doesn't lie", right? And I am sure that part of it is people "towing the party line" as well.

Finally, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the talking heads from Bio saying that DA2 was better are people who probably never played either game. Corporate execs in the gaming industry don't have to be gaming enthusiasts. I am sure that if you could get "off the record" comments from some of the actual developers on both projects, you would get a much different story.

But to be fair, there may indeed be players who appreciate the more simplified aspects of DA2. Gamers who would rather see a lot of jumping around and fancy footwork from their toon leading to spectacularly bloody corpse explosions rather than having to figure out how to fight a tactically tough battle. It's a reasonable point of view. Just not mine.

The gist of the hate I see for DA 2 mostly seems to stem from it being pegged as a solid B kind of game, dwarfed by the AAA top tier quality game that the first one was.

If the first one didn't exist, people would probably love DA 2.

Um, NO. even as a stand alone game, DA2 was not very good. Considering when it came out, graphics are fairly dated. Story line is static, linear and medeocre. In other words, two of the three main features of "Good RPG" games these days are nothing to write home to Mom about.

Beyond that, there is very little tactical about the game. You have very few choices about your main toon, which detracts points from a lot of other RPG games out there today. And the repetativeness and general lack of varied content (repeated levels ad nausium, no "Real" changes in look or appearance of your characters) and again sheer linearity of the game means it would not rank very high against other available choices.

So at the price point, there are much better games on the market. This is not much more than what you might expect from DLC at $20.00. Not the full price that it sold for.

 

[darkewaffle]

Kudos to a dude for thinking DA2 was rad and saying so. I think it's amusing how the same 3-4 people are so insistent their opinions are the only right ones here

 

[thespyder]

I think it's amusing how the same 3-4 people are so insistent their opinions are the only right ones here

I personally find it interesting that people who make these types of statements are usually the main perpetrators of the belief that their opinion is the only valid one and thus feel free to disparage all others who post opinions are contrary to their own. And the lack of actual substance to their posts usually means that they don’t have valid arguments to post and merely want to disparage others in a pithy manner.

 

[darkewaffle]

I personally find it interesting that people who make these types of statements are usually the main perpetrators of the belief that their opinion is the only valid one and thus feel free to disparage all others who post opinions are contrary to their own. And the lack of actual substance to their posts usually means that they don’t have valid arguments to post and merely want to disparage others in a pithy manner.

I thought the game was alright, not on the same level as DAO but not nearly as terrible as most opinions would lead you to believe. That's really neither here nor there though.

What I was commenting on is the sentiment that someone who likes DA2 has something wrong with him. Which, in fact, really has nothing to do with what anyone thinks of the game actually. Really it's just curious that someone would seemingly deride a person for liking something they don't like.

Though, after double checking it is mostly just one poster lol.

 

[StinkyPinky]

DA:O was awesome and one of the best RPG's of the decade.

DA2 was decent and mostly fun but just not the quality you expect from Bioware. It was rushed and a bit sloppy.

I think people just felt a bit let down. They could easily have spent another 6 months on it and made a few more dungeons and edited the city so it changed over the ten year period. Plus possibly have an extra act that takes place outside the city for a bit of variety.

 

[Dumac]

I thought the game was alright, not on the same level as DAO but not nearly as terrible as most opinions would lead you to believe. That's really neither here nor there though.

What I was commenting on is the sentiment that someone who likes DA2 has something wrong with him. Which, in fact, really has nothing to do with what anyone thinks of the game actually. Really it's just curious that someone would seemingly deride a person for liking something they don't like.

Though, after double checking it is mostly just one poster lol.

Yeah, I'm assuming that is me.

Let me put it like this. Imagine your favorite restaurant; the one that you like to go to often and eat at. You can always count on the food tasting great.

Now imagine that they starting serving shit. I mean, literally started serving feces. Obviously, this doesn't suit to your taste, and you don't want to eat their anymore. Yet some people are actually going in there to eat the feces!

Now you have two feelings.
#1 You can't believe people would actually eat that stuff
#2 You wish they would go back to serving the old, tasty food.

To me, liking DA2 is the same as liking to eat crap. If you knew someone that at crap, wouldn't you think that there was something wrong with him? Even though they are just 'liking something you don't like'?

 

[thespyder]

Yeah, I'm assuming that is me.

Let me put it like this. Imagine your favorite restaurant; the one that you like to go to often and eat at. You can always count on the food tasting great.

Now imagine that they starting serving shit. I mean, literally started serving feces. Obviously, this doesn't suit to your taste, and you don't want to eat their anymore. Yet some people are actually going in there to eat the feces!

Now you have two feelings.
#1 You can't believe people would actually eat that stuff
#2 You wish they would go back to serving the old, tasty food.

To me, liking DA2 is the same as liking to eat crap. If you knew someone that at crap, wouldn't you think that there was something wrong with him? Even though they are just 'liking something you don't like'?

Ok, but try it from a different direction. Suppose you found a great place to eat. You went there and had what you consider to be really great meals, not once but several times. Then someone that you don't know comes along and says "You eat Where? That place is crap. The food is crap. the service is crap. What is wrong with you?"

Hey, I didn't like DA2. I have made a lot of posts in defense of my reasons for not liking the game. But if someone Does like it, I don't call their sanity or facilities into question. I might attach there stance, but not the person themselves.

But that is just me.

 

[skace]

I think the reality that someone is wrong for liking something stems not so much from direct statements, but inferred statements and not always intentional. The reality is that we'd like to believe someone who likes CoD, isn't so much wrong, but misguided. For instance, you might like eating kraft mac n cheese and hotdogs every damn meal of the day. And while I won't necessarily say kraft mac n cheese tastes bad, it is very simple and there are far more varied palettes that are also much healthier that you are missing out on. Now I'd assume your desire to continue eating kraft mac n cheese w/ hotdogs is either a budgetary decision (which doesn't necessarily relate to gaming so much) or you are closed minded / have limited exposure to what is available to you in the world (in other words, don't know any better).

Whether DA2 is good or bad, we know it is simplified. And I think it is natural for someone to assume that if you like DA2 more than DA1 then the depth and complexities were lost on you. Maybe they never mattered to you in the first place, maybe you don't enjoy thinking so much (not everyone wants to turn their brain on to play something). But you also need to keep in mind that some of us played games like Masters of Orion 2 for this very reason, we wanted a game to make us think, crack, deconstruct and ultimately win. Games started out as challenges to overcome. Some of the games these days have fully devolved into movies that you repeatedly have to push play to get through.

I think some of enjoying the complexities of a game comes from playing so many, so you feel more worldy when it comes to gaming. You've played a thousand dumbed down games, so even though this one is executed particularly well, you are completely numb to it, and not only that you were denied a much more rich and enjoying experience.

 

[Bateluer]

Since my copy is on its way, actually used a gift code to discount it a little, I'll be the judge of whether its bad for myself. :/ DAO seems to be universally liked, with most people despising DA2.

 

[thespyder]

Since my copy is on its way, actually used a gift code to discount it a little, I'll be the judge of whether its bad for myself. :/ DAO seems to be universally liked, with most people despising DA2.

LOL. I would love to hear what you do think of it.

Years ago, my Ex and I finished playing Xcom and we looked around for another game like it. We stumbled upon a game called "Incubation". The reviews pretty much panned it as junk. But she really enjoyed it. I thought it was fairly unredemptive, but she actually played it all the way through to the end.

Goes to show, even if one person (or even a lot of people) thinks something isn't good, doesn't mean that everyone will think that.

And gift cards are wonderful, aren't they? I purchased my copy of Skyrim with gift cards. Otherwise I would not have been able to get it at all.