I don't get Dark Souls...

[motsm]

Dark Souls really isn't that challenging, it's just too cryptic in many of it's mechanics, leading you to look up what many things do, which is really the only thing I fault the game on. That said, I loved it.

I play a lot of old games, and it's not too uncommon for them to be as hard or harder than Dark Souls is when you crank up the difficulty level. The main difference is that Dark Souls doesn't allow you to save whenever you want, and you can't play on easy mode. I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't like this, but it's not a game for everyone, which is a good thing. Games should never be made for everyone.

 

[McWatt]

Rather than getting involved in the over the top argument here, I'll list a few things that might help you to enjoy or succeed at Dark Souls. If they sound appealing, maybe try them and see whether you enjoy the game more.

1) When you kill a boss, it's dead. Don't worry about saving. Actually, bonfires are kind of "unsave" points. Every meaningful task in the game is saved the instant you complete it. Open a door? It's open forever. Kill a boss? Dead forever. In fact, much of the progress in the game world is marked by opening shortcuts. By the end game you can get anywhere in the game world, which is quite large, in about 3 minutes.

2) If you mind dying, try getting a shield that has 100% resist in the physical section of its information sheet. You also want it to have high poise. A good starter shield would be the caduceus or tower shield sold by Andre of Astora. He's a blacksmith you'll run into within about 15 minutes of that dragon you described.

3) This one is important and there's not much in the game to tell you about it. Look in your stats screen and notice how much weight you can carry and how much weight you're currently carrying. Always keep the weight you're currently carrying under 25% of the total weight. When you do, your movement speed and rolling speed it much higher.

There are other ways to play, but I think it's easiest for a beginner to combine my suggestions #2 and #3, even if that means you're naked other than the shield and your weapon. Suddenly you're very mobile and you can get hit many times by most enemies without any sort of penalty other than lost stamina.

4) Take advantage of this property by blocking a lot. Just keep the shield up whenever you feel nervous. I suggest avoiding the parry mechanic and blocking a lot in combat to get a feel for enemy timing. Once your stamina is low, drop your guard while back-stepping so it quickly recharges.

5) I suggest not reading strategy guides for help with normal enemies or bosses, but go read up on game systems like enchanting. You'll want to enchant your weapon and shield quite a bit as soon as you can. Just enchant them both down the "normal" path to improve damage (and even better) poise. The more poise you have, the less stamina it takes to block.

6) Upgrading Endurance is awesome. You get more stamina to block and your max equip weight goes up, making it possible to carry more gear while still being fast.

7) As you want to get into more advanced combat, start with the simplest: keep a target lock while circling behind an enemy, then drop your guard and attack with a sword or axe when you're right behind it's back. Backstabs do massive damage and you're invulnerable during the animation. Remember to drop your guard a moment _before_ you attack. If you're still holding the shield up when you attack you can't backstab.

8) If you want to play even more defensively than what I described above, get a spear. You can attack with it without even dropping your guard. Damage isn't huge but it makes you incredibly durable against 3/4 of the enemies in the game.

9) Don't grind for souls. If you find an area difficult, play it a few times until you feel comfortable with it. As you do that, spend the souls you collect as a side effect. By the time you're 10 hours into the game, even at level 1 you won't have much trouble or be surprised by almost anything.

10) Finally, I saw a note about there being one way to approach each boss or situation. I was skimming, but I assume this was a complaint about Dark Souls. It can feel like that's the case, but you actually have quite a bit of flexibility. Almost every boss and encounter can be easily beaten with at least four usually obvious approaches: block (an upgraded Eagle Shield, for instance, lets you block every attack of nearly every boss with hardly any noticeable effect to your health or stamina), dodge (stay below 25% equip weight and know that for a generous fraction of a second during your dodge you're actually immune to damage, so you can dodge right through a boss's 30 foot long sword in most cases), use the game world (usually there are places in the room where enemies cannot or can barely reach you), or stand back and plink it to death with arrows. Some may disagree, but I recommend blocking to new players because it gives you time to relax and get over your urge to flee from the gigantic monsters, after which they all become pushovers.

I died a lot in my first 10 hours of Dark Souls. For the rest of the playthrough, it was rare, even though I was facing new areas and bosses with no prior knowledge. Other than the Bed of Chaos, I bet you'll go clear most bosses and zones without a single death when you first encounter them, but only once you've got your 10 hours of experience.

People like different games. There's a lot to appreciate about Dark Souls, but only if you really like something about the genre, setting, or game mechanics. If you don't, that's fine.

 

[TheSlamma]

It's people like you that i hate, arrogant, completely in love with themselves. I never claimed the game was overrated. Never. I said it was not fun. Not fun at all. Gaming skill is irrelevant when it's a game about learning from your mistakes. It's a game about enduring countless deaths. If that's fun, more power to you. To me, that's not fun. Nor is it something i plan to waste anymore time on...so at this point, continue to post if you wish, I really could care less. Just not worth the torture...

Also, i did name a similar game. Ninja Gaiden, people keep ignoring that though, so whatever.

The quote wasn't a reply to you, CLEARLY it was to Falafil if you would have just read it.

But hey since you are completely in love with yourself you must think everything is about you right?

and yes I'm arrogant, that is why I said I'm not that great of a gamer. All arrogant people immediately talk about their weakness's *roll*

 

[Grimbones]

The quote wasn't a reply to you, CLEARLY it was to Falafil if you would have just read it.

But hey since you are completely in love with yourself you must think everything is about you right?

and yes I'm arrogant, that is why I said I'm not that great of a gamer. All arrogant people immediately talk about their weakness's *roll*

You included OP--ME--in your slander. Try reading what you write...it'll get you somewhere in life. Also, you were self deprecating, but you were in a manner that made us seem less skilled, so it wasn't really self deprecating it was a fucking insult. I get it, you are a dick...keep on keepin' on. I recognize it, because i am one, at least i can admit it.

Edit: Mcwatt, i appreciate the help, but i just don't really think this will ever be a game for me, i cannot find interest in a game that is going to torture me for 7 more hours. I already block, i roll, i make mistakes because im 27 and i forget which keys to press correctly in some situations, so i die. This game is extraordinarily unforgiving. Like i said, i got past what i felt would be a check point--yes, i went back to the game, and played through, and found the boss was dead...which i figured would respawn just because this game is that fucking ruthless to the player, but i ended up doing well for about 3 minutes and then dying again because something was "summoned into my area" whatever the hell that means, all it meant was there was a new difficult person to fight when i was already engaged with others, and he seemed to come looking for me.

I don't really get what you say about blocking, because the combat mechanics are so gimp i can be trying to block on the closest creature and it will spin me toward another one at random, and if i'm fighting 3 people at once it doesn't typically go well...It just gets boring to me when you block, and have to predict if it's time to stop locking and respond or maybe they're in the middle of a flourish and still attacking...now i'm low on health to a skeleton. That's fine, if i have to just sit blocking and blocking, but for me, that will get tedious as hell.

I'll probably try the game again out of sick stubbornness and wanting to prove to myself that i can succeed in it, but it's extremely frustrating, and the game doesn't seem as open ended as people make it out to be....

Consider me, i started out as the deprived, and have been putting points into faith, and intelligence, but there seems to be little information into what those stats do...the fact that i am having to ask what they do, and they are not explained to me in the game, is one of the reasons i do not like this game. It's not difficult for that reason, it's simply not approachable, and any other game that left out simple information like that would be insulted by critics for leaving that stuff out...This is why i don't get it. There are things the game does just for no real reason to make life harder on the player.

Hell, FF14 did that in its initial launch--you know, not explaining how to interact with anything--and it got lambasted by reviewers. I don't get it...i don't get it, i don't get it. Okay, because this game is supposed to be mind numbingly humbling, it's perfect that it doesn't explain how to do 90% of the things?

Not only that, for some reason i have to read stupid comments made by other people who played the game throughout. Sometimes they are helpful, sometimes they are not helpful...like when someone told me to attack this merchant, and now he's dead, and never coming back, and i would never have done that in the first place if i wasn't told to...So yeah, the games not hard enough without people being dicks. I cannot buy arrows to kill anyone from a distance, and cannot buy much...so until i can reach another merchant--which god knows how far away that is..it's going to be a long difficult slog with a club and a shield, and armor that doesn't really seem to protect me from attacks anymore than being naked did...?

edit 2: Also, when i search for information on those stats, i get "this is your name" ...yeah, because that's what i was interested in finding out about. Not only that, a great majority of the icons in the game are undefined, or you have to go searching somewhere in their cryptic system to find out what one of those billion tiny icons mean...it's very unhelpful...It's fine that the game is difficult, but they're probably pissing off a lot of people who bought it because they do not even try to help them to understand the game.

 

[Revolution 11]

Grimbones, you asked for our opinions on this game, a game you clearly dislike or are frustrated with. When we stated our opinions (some quite detailed) on why the game is good or fun, you dismissed them as out of touch comments or elitist opinions.

When we said that it is fine for you personally to dislike the game and if you do, there is no reason for us to prove to you why it is good, you start demanding that we "should" be able to defend it.

Now why should Dark Soul fans defend a game to someone who clearly does not like it, is not good at it, or does not have the time to be good at it? None of these 3 traits are bad traits, but they are ones that prevent you from enjoying the game. Furthermore, you are not ready to listen to the opinions of fans who do like the game yet you continue to ask for these opinions.

I don't know if that makes you a troll or a just a person who has a bone to pick with Dark Souls and people who enjoy the game or someone who is seeking validation for his frustration/anger/hate at the game.

I repeat, it is fine to not like the game. Either for the insane difficulty, the non-standard movement/ mechanics/controls, or because you don't have 80 hours to learn the game. I myself can't get far into the game. But don't dismiss other people's sincere opinions on the game especially when you are asking for those opinions.

 

[hardhat]

Grimbones, those guys who are summoned are most likely players seeking pvp action with you. The way it works is anyone who isn't hollow can be invaded by other players and attacked. Considering that the game was just on another sale, it is pretty likely that the person trying to pvp with you is also new to the game, so you might enjoy the fight. Unfortunately, it could also be someone with tons of hours in the game invading people with a new character just for kicks. If you want to avoid PVP until you experience more of the game, just stay hollow.

 

[Grimbones]

Grimbones, you asked for our opinions on this game, a game you clearly dislike or are frustrated with. When we stated our opinions (some quite detailed) on why the game is good or fun, you dismissed them as out of touch comments or elitist opinions.

When we said that it is fine for you personally to dislike the game and if you do, there is no reason for us to prove to you why it is good, you start demanding that we "should" be able to defend it.

Now why should Dark Soul fans defend a game to someone who clearly does not like it, is not good at it, or does not have the time to be good at it? None of these 3 traits are bad traits, but they are ones that prevent you from enjoying the game. Furthermore, you are not ready to listen to the opinions of fans who do like the game yet you continue to ask for these opinions.

I don't know if that makes you a troll or a just a person who has a bone to pick with Dark Souls and people who enjoy the game or someone who is seeking validation for his frustration/anger/hate at the game.

I repeat, it is fine to not like the game. Either for the insane difficulty, the non-standard movement/ mechanics/controls, or because you don't have 80 hours to learn the game. I myself can't get far into the game. But don't dismiss other people's sincere opinions on the game especially when you are asking for those opinions.

Actually, 90% of the responses, are telling me how to play the game, that the game is not difficult, and very few are actually about what they like about the game...if any...Honestly, i figured this thread would have died by this morning, but it was not, so i responded to some words a dick had to say...again, i responded--not critically to a guy who was trying to help me.

Almost nobody has responded to my criticisms of the game. None, there are a few people who have shared similar problems, but most others just say you are playing it wrong, and it's fine for me not to like it. That's fine. But it certainly is not what i would call a lively debate. I initially wrote this because i was frustrated--if that was not obvious enough by the context.

Don't defend it, that's fine. I know if someone questioned a game that i enjoyed i would be able to list off plenty of things that i enjoyed about it...not just tell people why they did not enjoy it.

Edit: Honestly, i just went back through, and not one person said what they like about the game, more what you have to do in order to enjoy the game, basically telling me to play better...as for you guys telling me that i don't have to enjoy the game, i don't mean to be a dick, but that's obvious, you guys have no bearing over whether i like it or not.

By implying that "i do not get" Dark Souls, i was trying to see why some people may get it...or what they do find rewarding about the game.

I bought DS, xcom, and BF4 during their holiday sales... I'm playing BF4 right now, and while i hate the fact that they have map packs that i suddenly would have to spend more money on "china rising" on a game that came out so recently, i'm enjoying it. Even if i'm not playing particularly well, and my computer struggles to run it smoothly.

 

[pong lenis]

Grimbones, you asked for our opinions on this game, a game you clearly dislike or are frustrated with. When we stated our opinions (some quite detailed) on why the game is good or fun, you dismissed them as out of touch comments or elitist opinions.

When we said that it is fine for you personally to dislike the game and if you do, there is no reason for us to prove to you why it is good, you start demanding that we "should" be able to defend it.

Now why should Dark Soul fans defend a game to someone who clearly does not like it, is not good at it, or does not have the time to be good at it? None of these 3 traits are bad traits, but they are ones that prevent you from enjoying the game. Furthermore, you are not ready to listen to the opinions of fans who do like the game yet you continue to ask for these opinions.

I don't know if that makes you a troll or a just a person who has a bone to pick with Dark Souls and people who enjoy the game or someone who is seeking validation for his frustration/anger/hate at the game.

I repeat, it is fine to not like the game. Either for the insane difficulty, the non-standard movement/ mechanics/controls, or because you don't have 80 hours to learn the game. I myself can't get far into the game. But don't dismiss other people's sincere opinions on the game especially when you are asking for those opinions.

Stop being such a drama queen

 

[HeXen]

Dark Souls is actually not that difficult. It punishes mistakes brutally is all. Most people try and rush through lesser enemies thinking they are just junk to get to the boss. Each enemy in DS can and will kill you if you don't treat the fight correctly.

There are clues in the environment to make you give caution. From burnt bodies on a bridge to other corpses around areas, they are not just for decoration, but are in fact your warning signs.

The game does not hold your hand at all and requires you to pay attention to everything. The overwhelming vast majority of games nowadays do so much hand holding that we don't even think to pay attention to stuff in so many cases now. Well DS is not like that and has no problems punishing you for your mistakes.

The combat is quite good, you need good timing to attack and defend yourself. Most enemies have only a few moves and you can learn them rather quickly to dispatch them and not get take any damage.

You have to play the game cautious, running around a corner? You're going to be punished, try and get an extra attack in? You're going to be punished! Going into somewhere you haven't been before or don't know very well, you better be slow and cautious. The WORST thing you can do in the Souls games is not take your time, you will be punished each and every single time if you don't. Oh, one more hit and the boss is dead, I can finish it right now! Boom!, YOU DIED!

Greed will take you nowhere in this game.



All that being said, it isn't a game for everyone as it requires much more from the player than your average game does nowadays. Not saying that in a negative way, but most games are so dumb downed we don't even realize it till a game comes along to make us actually use brains for more than the most basic of things.

Well said. I think OP wants to play Golden Axe or some other mindless button masher.

 

[Revolution 11]

Edit: Honestly, i just went back through, and not one person said what they like about the game, more what you have to do in order to enjoy the game, basically telling me to play better...as for you guys telling me that i don't have to enjoy the game, i don't mean to be a dick, but that's obvious, you guys have no bearing over whether i like it or not.

The difficulty of the game is exactly what they enjoy. Specifically the precision of attacks, timing, and gameplay required is what makes this game different from its peers and what attracts fans. You do have to play better to get what they like about the game. Note that I have said many times that you don't have to like this type of game. I certainly don't like Dark Souls and am not good at it. I do plan on playing Dark Souls 2 to see if they fixed some of the UI issues I have and if the combat feels different. But I don't harp on the game for this.

The game probably is overhyped but not because of the normal reasons. It reminds me of the older Devil May Cry games on the harder difficulties. There are so few games like that, people who like them will flock relentlessly to them.

Stop being such a drama queen

Um, ok. I am just pointing out that it doesn't make sense to bash other people's thoughts when you are the one asking for them. Didn't know that makes me a drama queen.

 

[Grimbones]

NVM IM DONE WITH THIS THREAD. Have your cake, whatever.

 

[akahoovy]

I loved Demon's Souls, probably for the reason that if I got stuck in one realm, I could go browse and mess around in another realm, and maybe take down a boss or find some equipment. Also, this is probably what Grimbones is trying to get it, is that it felt like Demon's Souls taught you new encounters better than Dark Souls. Dark Souls just blindsides you with encounters, and a lot of them are fatal compared to Demon's Souls. There were a few fatal traps in Demon's Souls, but not to the level like Dark Souls.

All that said, I fucking hate their stat system. Convoluted doesn't begin to describe it, and you have no idea what is really going to be beneficial down the road. You want guides to know how to build a character, or just replay the game forever until you know it by heart.

 

[TheSlamma]

Grimbones, you asked for our opinions on this game, a game you clearly dislike or are frustrated with. When we stated our opinions (some quite detailed) on why the game is good or fun, you dismissed them as out of touch comments or elitist opinions.

When we said that it is fine for you personally to dislike the game and if you do, there is no reason for us to prove to you why it is good, you start demanding that we "should" be able to defend it.

Now why should Dark Soul fans defend a game to someone who clearly does not like it, is not good at it, or does not have the time to be good at it? None of these 3 traits are bad traits, but they are ones that prevent you from enjoying the game. Furthermore, you are not ready to listen to the opinions of fans who do like the game yet you continue to ask for these opinions.

I don't know if that makes you a troll or a just a person who has a bone to pick with Dark Souls and people who enjoy the game or someone who is seeking validation for his frustration/anger/hate at the game.

I repeat, it is fine to not like the game. Either for the insane difficulty, the non-standard movement/ mechanics/controls, or because you don't have 80 hours to learn the game. I myself can't get far into the game. But don't dismiss other people's sincere opinions on the game especially when you are asking for those opinions.

good post

 

[TheSlamma]

NVM IM DONE WITH THIS THREAD. Have your cake, whatever.

Thank goodness

 

[TallBill]

Good post McWatt. I need a wired 360 controller so I can give this game another go. I played a long time ago on my xbox and barely used guides and got so pissed off and quit. I'd like to try again except this time with a guide and playing safer.

 

[Rhezuss]

Dark Souls is actually not that difficult. It punishes mistakes brutally is all. Most people try and rush through lesser enemies thinking they are just junk to get to the boss. Each enemy in DS can and will kill you if you don't treat the fight correctly.

There are clues in the environment to make you give caution. From burnt bodies on a bridge to other corpses around areas, they are not just for decoration, but are in fact your warning signs.

The game does not hold your hand at all and requires you to pay attention to everything. The overwhelming vast majority of games nowadays do so much hand holding that we don't even think to pay attention to stuff in so many cases now. Well DS is not like that and has no problems punishing you for your mistakes.

The combat is quite good, you need good timing to attack and defend yourself. Most enemies have only a few moves and you can learn them rather quickly to dispatch them and not get take any damage.

You have to play the game cautious, running around a corner? You're going to be punished, try and get an extra attack in? You're going to be punished! Going into somewhere you haven't been before or don't know very well, you better be slow and cautious. The WORST thing you can do in the Souls games is not take your time, you will be punished each and every single time if you don't. Oh, one more hit and the boss is dead, I can finish it right now! Boom!, YOU DIED!

Greed will take you nowhere in this game.



All that being said, it isn't a game for everyone as it requires much more from the player than your average game does nowadays. Not saying that in a negative way, but most games are so dumb downed we don't even realize it till a game comes along to make us actually use brains for more than the most basic of things.

Best description of the game I read so far, great job KaOTiK.

That's how I like my games, hard and punishing but equally rewarding.

There's also a clever implemented to get better loot. When you're alive (not Hollowed) the more monsters you kill the better your chances they will drop loot. I just started the game myself and i'm half through to the Undead Church (for the first bell). At first I died every 4-5 combats but then I started thinking more and not playing it WoW style. Sure combats can take more time but it's overall quicker if you don't die and a lot more rewarding.

I'm actually starting to see really cool loot dropping since I didn't died and started to play more cautiously.

But it's really not for everyone and I can understand if you don't like the game.

 

[Ferzerp]

Hmmm. There really are no random unavoidable deaths in this game if you take your time and don't just run haphazardly through things. Archers don't shoot your back if you make sure there are none behind you, etc.

Pretty much any death you have is because you failed. If you think you're dying for no reason, you're not only failing, but you're also failing to recognize the cause of your failure and blaming it on the game.

 

[clok1966]

this thread is what happens when a successful game is bought by somebody who doesn't like it. the game sold well, there is only one reason, people liked it. This is not HALO5, its not bought without seeing on day one, people dont buy games like this without word of mouth or good reviews. If you don't like it, that's not a problem, you don't (its ok, really it is). If you get butthurt about it and feel the need to post and tell all the people who do like it they are idiots, you might get some flack.

I hate halo, but tell any xbox user that and it sacrilege.. so i don't tell um.. they enjoy it, i don't, who cares.

And Demons Souls and Dark Souls are great games (opinion). I didn't die on Demons soul till the KNIGHT boss on my first play through.. but then again, I had heard the game was all about being prepared. once you play awhile there are so many clues its hard not to see stuff coming.. giant rock at top of stairs.. hmm, why? sword tip sticking out around corner (is it floating in air? or might an enemy have hold of it), dark room, lets just rush in and hope I can swing away and win!, room with really high ceiling, nah, nobody above me. Sounds of movement, lets just rush in. Arrows shooting at me, no sense using shield i cant swing then, but if i wait and get enemy between me and arrows, wow! he get hit not me! Enemy has shield, lets flail away at it, not get to its side.. etc..

but in the end, you don't like that, you don't.. simple.

 

[gorcorps]

Never played Dark Souls, but I played Demons' Souls and didn't care for it. I couldn't easily get into the game myself and needed to read a lot of guides to make sure I didn't miss anything, or get screwed over. After beating a couple bosses I realized I wasn't playing a game but basically just following directions and that isn't fun.

 

[smackababy]

It is definitely a different kind of exploring, which is appealing for a lot of players. Having to figure out what each monster, boss, weapon, etc does is part of the fun (for me, at least). Dark Souls even expanded it further, as the story was "hidden" from plain sight and took a lot of searching to extract and a lot of speculation to understand.

 

[PowerYoga]

I'm beginning to think you guys are just in denial or completely blind to a number of very obvious design decisions that involve archers blasting you in the back when you are facing other people...Or have you needing to get into cover to avoid some damage, and then get jacked from the side where someone was hiding around the corner.

Is it really that difficult to learn where the enemies are positioned? It's not like the stage changes when you run through it for the 4th or 5th time. I don't think anybody can honestly say they never had problems with the game since they'd be liars, the game IS brutal and difficult.... if you've never played demon's souls.

Most people mentioned that it's brutal in it's punishment, but you can beat any boss or any mob in the game with enough skill and finesse. I believe there's a naked speed run video out there somewhere with a guy finishing the game with just a sword hilt.

This game is not your child, you do not have to defend it so blindly. It's really actually quite embarrassing.

Most of you guys also tend to ignore my specific scenarios in your defense of the game also...just kind of generalizing about lack of skill and the fact that i must not have enough knowledge...as if knowledge would have somehow prevented a dragon from melting my face off, when the prior time i encountered him he did nothing at all. Stuff like that, specific scenarios...

Then you act as though you did not have trouble in those specific scenarios--and that bothers me more than the game itself. Holier than thou types. Keep preaching, though, whatever.

Since you're going to be condescending about it, game's not for you because it's too hard and you can't be assed to learn anything. You should stick to something easier like hello kitty online or cartoon network flash games.

 

[Jodell88]

Most people mentioned that it's brutal in it's punishment, but you can beat any boss or any mob in the game with enough skill and finesse. I believe there's a naked speed run video out there somewhere with a guy finishing the game with just a sword hilt.

I watched a girl beat it using a steering wheel.

 

[smackababy]

I believe there's a naked speed run video out there somewhere with a guy finishing the game with just a sword hilt.

I did 3 playthroughs SL1 starting gear only, no magic no upgrades. (New Game, NG+, NG++). Once you learn how to properly play, the game isn't exactly difficult.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Grimbones wanted to be a real gamer, but his dream was shattered to pieces by Darksouls. Unable to pass this test, forever known as a noob, he is currently in denial.

 

[Rhezuss]

Damn guys...not OPs fault if he doesn't like the game, leave it at that. He tried it and didn't liked it, simple as that.

Reminds me when I say to my Xbox fanboy friend that I didn't got into Mass Effect. Wow the rant can go on and on and on.

Anyways, humans gotta be humans.