I don't get Dark Souls...

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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Damn guys...not OPs fault if he doesn't like the game, leave it at that. He tried it and didn't liked it, simple as that.

Reminds me when I say to my Xbox fanboy friend that I didn't got into Mass Effect. Wow the rant can go on and on and on.

Anyways, humans gotta be humans.

I don't like a lot of things, but I don't go around making threads about them. And then trying to criticize those that do.
 

Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,120
34
91
I don't like a lot of things, but I don't go around making threads about them. And then trying to criticize those that do.

Well good point I must say but some need these forums to express themselves...and you surely know how easy it is to feel above others or make others feel like they're shit when interacting on the interwebs.

Anyways, game's great but just not for everyone.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
Why would he keep playing, even though it's obviously not fun for him?

Why would he insist on bashing the game after he finally couldn't take it anymore and stop?

The answer is clear in my story:

With Grimbones childhood dream shattered, he fell into morose. In that state of sadness, he rationalized that he didn't fail as a gamer, it was the game that failed in its design. Desperately, he tried to convince others to also see the game as a failure. It was simply him trying to reinforce the rationalization of his failure.

Ironically, he also failed in that task. Shamed by failure, his despair masked as anger, he stormed out of the thread.
 
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Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,120
34
91
Why would he keep playing, even though it's obviously not fun for him?

Why would he insist on bashing the game after he finally couldn't take it anymore and stop?

The answer is clear in my story:

With Grimbones childhood dream shattered, he fell into morose. In that state of sadness, he rationalized that he didn't fail as a gamer, it was the game that failed in its design. Desperately, he tried to convince others to also see the game as a failure. It was simply him trying to reinforce the rationalization of his failure.

Ironically, he also failed in that task. Shamed by failure, his despair masked as anger, he stormed out of the thread.

I like the way to think...even though on AT forums some people may seam to be A when in fact they're B...and B isn't really that lattering...but A isn't better...pewpew
 

Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
Why would he keep playing, even though it's obviously not fun for him?

Why would he insist on bashing the game after he finally couldn't take it anymore and stop?

The answer is clear in my story:

With Grimbones childhood dream shattered, he fell into morose. In that state of sadness, he rationalized that he didn't fail as a gamer, it was the game that failed in its design. Desperately, he tried to convince others to also see the game as a failure. It was simply him trying to reinforce the rationalization of his failure.

Ironically, he also failed in that task. Shamed by failure, his despair masked as anger, he stormed out of the thread.

You're kind of a jerk for a christian. Like, what you're doing is publicly shaming me. It's literally hurtful, and stressful to read that. As a christian i would hope you would rethink your actions in the future. Is a game really important enough to you to want to hurt people over? I dunno man.

Here is what happened. A friend recommended Dark Souls to me. Initially i was extremely excited when i installed the game, and found out that i could start out as a naked char, that essentially only had a club....I though...awesome. Then i logged into the game, and found out that dying repeatedly over and over is not fun.

I lashed out, i apologize. I still do not understand how people can find the game fun. It's more of a test of patience than a game of skill imo.

Throughout the entire thread, nobody really mentioned how sloppy the combat feels in regard to another legendarily difficult game--ninja gaiden.

I realize my failures enough to want to post about them, i even admitted my failures in this very thread. I am not the greatest gamer anymore, but this game tested my patience to the limits, and i found it wanting in a number of categories which i mentioned previously in the thread.

Other guy was right, people go onto forums to post their distaste for stuff as a form of empathy...the problem is on the internet people like to insult and make themselves out to be clever by posting humorous and derogatory stuff about others.

I'm sorry, but i should get a tattoo that says: Do not seek empathy on the internet. It's a fools mission, as there are very few who are actually empathetic towards others. Maybe 5 to 10% of people.

Edit: Also, continuing to lambast someone after they admitted defeat and left the thread is tantamount to kicking someone when they are down. Pretty low.
 
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sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Not to get involved with the drama here. My 2 cents:

I played Dark Souls, didnt like it. Quit. Gave it to my brother. Since he lived with me and he had a bunch of freetime he got pretty far. He was doing awesome, killing all the bosses easily, stacking his char. I think he had a really good mage build that seemed to kill everything.

It burned my ego a little bit because he could get that far and I couldn't.

At one point I was in-between jobs, so I played Dark Souls again. This time I played it with an open mind and I looked up the strategy guides.
I really got into it finally getting to Anor Londo before I got a job and didnt have time to play it.

It's a GREAT game. It looks good, game design, gameplay the animations and time put into it make a technically outstanding game.

It's a game you have to put non-casual amount of investment in otherwise it's no fun. That's not for everyone nowadays, including OP.
 
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Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
Not to get involved with the drama here. My 2 cents:

I played Dark Souls, didnt like it. Quit. Gave it to my brother. Since he lived with me and he had a bunch of freetime he got pretty far. He was doing awesome, killing all the bosses easily, stacking his char. I think he had a really good mage build that seemed to kill everything.

It burned my ego a little bit because he could get that far and I couldn't.

At one point I was in-between jobs, so I played Dark Souls again. This time I played it with an open mind and I looked up the strategy guides.
I really got into it finally getting to Anor Londo before I got a job and didnt have time to play it.

It's a GREAT game. It looks good, game design, gameplay the animations and time put into it make a technically outstanding game.

It's a game you have to put non-casual amount of investment in otherwise it's no fun. That's not for everyone nowadays, including OP.

I love a challenge in games. I love the idea of playing a game where you start out with nothing and you have to build yourself up. There is very little feeling of progression to this game though.

One of my favorite MMO's ever was EQ, it was considered a hardcore MMO, and still is considered to be such.

I'll just leave it at this, because i feel like i've been spinning my wheels forever, and am not sure why i reopened this up--i guess because i hate when people feel like they know everything about me from one game i have played....

To me, it's just not worth the stress, and pain involved in dying over and over. Even when i managed to make headway i would be blindsided by a new threat and die, and have to repreat a lot of frustration to get back to where i was. The game is cruel in that respect. It seems to invent ways to grief the player at every turn. I will never understand how people can argue otherwise, and that's just the way it is, so i guess this thread is moot.

I guess some people get off on that stuff. I guess i do not. Sorry i made this thread, but i am unsure if i can close it or not.

A mod certainly can, if they see this post.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
When I played DS, a lot of the deaths were because of cheap mechanics put into the game. Platforming with bad jump controls, walking up an edge when someone is shooting arrows at you that knock you back, griefers invading you just to do the backstab dance while you were fighting something else. I even saw enemies hit me through the wall and knock me off a platform.

I also expected more story. There was some lore and hidden message type stuff but I really wanted more direction to it. I suppose after playing Skyrim, Mass Effect, and Fallout I expected games with a more or less open world to be like that.
 

Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
When I played DS, a lot of the deaths were because of cheap mechanics put into the game. Platforming with bad jump controls, walking up an edge when someone is shooting arrows at you that knock you back, griefers invading you just to do the backstab dance while you were fighting something else. I even saw enemies hit me through the wall and knock me off a platform.

I also expected more story. There was some lore and hidden message type stuff but I really wanted more direction to it. I suppose after playing Skyrim, Mass Effect, and Fallout I expected games with a more or less open world to be like that.

This game to me felt like getting dental work done...

Dentist: "Now if you floss regularly you can avoid this terrible terrible pain in the future."

Me: "Thank you sir, i will remember that, but in the meantime you're causing me incredible pain and suffering and that knowledge is not making me enjoy the process anymore".

The difference between Dark Souls and a root canal, dental work is not a form of entertainment. I guess some people just really enjoy planning stuff out and thinking about every possibility before they round a corner, i don't. If that's the appeal of the game, then okay, you got me, i get it. I just can't have fun creeping gently through a game with no story, poor gameplay mechanics, and constant grief.
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
This game to me felt like getting dental work done...Now if you floss regularly you can avoid this terrible terrible pain in the future. Thank you sir, i will remember that. In the meantime you're causing me incredible pain and suffering. The difference between Dark Souls and a root canal, dental work is not a form of entertainment. I guess some people just really enjoy planning stuff out and thinking about every possibility before they round a corner, i don't. If that's the appeal of the game, then okay, you got me, i get it. I just can't have fun creeping gently through a game with no story, poor gameplay mechanics, and constant grief.

Fair enough. I agree to a point. Like was mentioned before, Ninja Gaiden is one of the harder games out there but it's difficult because it relies on your reflexes and timing rather than luck. I did finish DS and at one point I mentioned walking up a platform while enemies shot arrows at you. I did it 10 times before I passed it, by sheer luck I would guess.
 

turn_pike

Senior member
Mar 4, 2012
316
0
71
You're kind of a jerk for a christian. Like, what you're doing is publicly shaming me. It's literally hurtful, and stressful to read that. As a christian i would hope you would rethink your actions in the future. Is a game really important enough to you to want to hurt people over? I dunno man.

I was waiting for a "/s" at the end 'cos that made me giggle for like half a minute.

But anyways, Dark Souls is certainly among the top of the list of games I love the most. The bad thing about it is that after playing Souls game the old guards that I used to love, like Skyrim and Witcher 2, feels so mundane.

Personally the best thing about Souls games has to be the combat. It is slow and deliberate as opposed to twitchy. Sometimes I feel like I can almost see their muscles straining from heaving and swinging their weapons. It has mass and momentum unlike the floaty combat of Skyrim. The huge range of move set available is something that other games should copy.

I the story and the fact that it only gives you hint and pieces of the puzzle, leaving you gather and recreate the whole narrative. Hence why there are thousands of discussion threads and lore videos on Souls game. In Bioware game, everything is explained in detail leaving little to one's imagination. Unfortunately most player will never discover most of Dark Souls' lore as they are mostly found by combining the knowledge gained from reading item / spell description and NPC conversation.

I love the setting. How the areas of Lordran connect with each other. How Lost Izalith horrify and endearing at the same time. The beauty and vast emptiness of Anor Londo as well as the way it turn into darkness. Discovering the Great Hollow and coming out of Ash Lake to witness the primordial world has to be my personal high point of Dark Souls, such cavalcade of emotions rushing in, melancholy, fear, excitement. Gosh I hope Bethesda developers play the hell out of this game and incorporate many aspects of this into TES 6.

The punishing system of Dark Souls, especially the fact that you cannot even pause -can- be annoying. It is not something that I want in every game but I appreciate that there are games who offer it. Always keeps me on my toes, the feeling that danger lurks in every corner never truly fades. Even when I know I can most likely defeat the enemy, a Dark Phantom might invade at any moment and destroy me. Compare this to playing Skyrim at level 40 and above where even Dragons are momentary distractions that can be dispatched whenever you feel like it.

I dont always love the game. Dying for the 30th time to Smough and Ornstein made me hate the game for a long long time. Losing 45k souls when I was only level 30 got me down for the rest of the day. But for all its flaw, I remember Dark Souls fondly. I can still recall how I felt when I was playing it. OTOH, I finished Dawnguard and felt nothing. Cant even remember what happened most of the time.

PS
I just realize that I was thrashing Skyrim the whole time. Its just that I used to love TES series and now feel like it has stagnated. Souls games now have better combat and settings. Witcher series now have better story and graphics.

PPS
I forgot to mention there's certainly a metagaming aspect in Souls game. Players collectively try to advance and complete the game. So in the first months of the game people leave message to each other about traps and hidden shortcuts. Hence the "trial and error" aspect of the game is designed, I think, to emphasize this collaboration. Obviously by now, most people are "expected" to know where all these things are which would be frustrating for beginners. This type of trial-and-error thing is very far and between however.
 
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JumBie

Golden Member
May 2, 2011
1,645
1
71
Looked cool on PS3, purchased it for pc. Gave it a go with keyboard and mouse and gave up, the the controls were complete and utter shit. And I was not willing to go and get a controller just to play this one game.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
When I played DS, a lot of the deaths were because of cheap mechanics put into the game. Platforming with bad jump controls

Dark Souls is not a platform game. At all. If you were expecting Super Mario Bros., I can understand your disappointment.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
Throughout the entire thread, nobody really mentioned how sloppy the combat feels in regard to another legendarily difficult game--ninja gaiden.

Ninja Gaiden and Dark Souls aren't even the same genre. If you want to play games like God of War and Devil May Cry, this isn't one of them.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
One of my favorite MMO's ever was EQ, it was considered a hardcore MMO, and still is considered to be such.

Lol. EQ was only considered as "hardcore" MMO by EQ players. The rest of us were enjoying not being complete trammies in Ultima Online. Perhaps that is your problem though.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Darksouls punishes you severely for your mistakes. Most people here have said this already, but the more you play the game the better you get, and you understand the game better.

If it truly is that hard for you, play it with a strategy guide so you know where things are and where to find good items. This isn't GTA where you can explore the world and do whatever you want with no reprecussions. There are distinct areas which will be "too hard" for you at the beginning but yet you can access anyway. Doing the dungeons in the right order is the first step towards enjoyment.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
I just can't have fun creeping gently through a game with no story, poor gameplay mechanics

The game has a story, if you pay attention.

It also has amazing gameplay mechanics. The online mechanics of the Souls series are extremely innovative, and the combat extraordinary deliberate, varied, and deep.
 

Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
Smackababy all you do is talk junk in like half the posts i see of yours. I don't value your opinion. I never played Ultima Online, because at the time it came out i was probably like 10. My friend played it, apparently it was really easy to grief others, and that being the case, i'm not shocked you enjoy DS, you're apparently masochistic on some level.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
It's more of a test of patience than a game of skill imo.

Patience (and caution) are skills. But it tests more than patience - it also test you ability to make a decent build, your ability to dodge/block/parry on time, your ability to observe, and you ability to stay calm in the face of suprises and seemingly overwhelming obstacles.

Throughout the entire thread, nobody really mentioned how sloppy the combat feels in regard to another legendarily difficult game--ninja gaiden.

That is false as well. The combat is very precise and deliberate, just simply slower paced than Ninja Gaiden. The game's combat is meant to be somewhat more realistic, so you can't fly through the air spamming atacks with your katana.

Other guy was right, people go onto forums to post their distaste for stuff as a form of empathy...the problem is on the internet people like to insult and make themselves out to be clever by posting humorous and derogatory stuff about others.

That isn't even the problem. The problem is that you came in mouthing off like 'oh man Dark Souls sucks, who could like that crappy game?'. If you had approached in a different, non-hostile tone I am sure this thread would have went differently.

Edit: Also, continuing to lambast someone after they admitted defeat and left the thread is tantamount to kicking someone when they are down. Pretty low.

Lol stop being so dramatic.
 

Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
The game has a story, if you pay attention.

It also has amazing gameplay mechanics. The online mechanics of the Souls series are extremely innovative, and the combat extraordinary deliberate, varied, and deep.

The story is extraordinarily cryptic at best. I'm certainly not going to sit there and write down the two sentences of nonsensical dialogue so that i can make sense of it later. It just doesn't interest me.

I mentioned Ninja Gaiden because they are similar, no matter how you may trick yourself, they are both action games. Ninja Gaiden had slow ponderous weapons also, but they felt very good when you were to swing them.

Most of the weapons in DS felt ponderous and inaccurate and you were unable to adjust if you committed to a gesture. I really like the fact that the game had unique animations for each weapon...that's cool.

It's just not a game i can get into.

Honestly, I would love it if a MODERATOR WOULD LOCK THIS THREAD.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
To me, it's just not worth the stress, and pain involved in dying over and over.

That is just a mindset though. Stop being so upset about dying - you are supposed to die. The game says "PREPARE TO DIE". Dying is expected - it is how you learn how to be better at the game.

Even when i managed to make headway i would be blindsided by a new threat and die, and have to repreat a lot of frustration to get back to where i was.

You almost always only get blindsided because you aren't being careful enough. The amount you have to repeat usually isn't too long, either. And it should get faster each consecutive retry (to a point).

The game is cruel in that respect. It seems to invent ways to grief the player at every turn. I will never understand how people can argue otherwise, and that's just the way it is, so i guess this thread is moot.

You say the game is 'griefing' you. I say the game is 'testing' you. The game doesn't hand everything to you on a silver platter, but it also isn't THAT difficult. It is just a shock for some people not to be told what to do, how to do it, and not being able to do it on the first try. Most modern games are beaten with almost no deaths, and when you do die it is of little or no consequence.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
The story is extraordinarily cryptic at best. I'm certainly not going to sit there and write down the two sentences of nonsensical dialogue so that i can make sense of it later. It just doesn't interest me.

Just like the rest of the game, the story isn't straightforward and traditionally narrated. You have to put a bit of effort it.

I mentioned Ninja Gaiden because they are similar, no matter how you may trick yourself, they are both action games. Ninja Gaiden had slow ponderous weapons also, but they felt very good when you were to swing them.

Uh no, they aren't really similar. Ninja Gaiden is in a group with DMC, Bayonetta, and Metal Gear Rising.

Dark Souls is closer to Monster Hunter or Dragon's Dogma. It is a completely different feeling.

Most of the weapons in DS felt ponderous and inaccurate and you were unable to adjust if you committed to a gesture. I really like the fact that the game had unique animations for each weapon...that's cool.

Only the huge weapons are ponderous, as they should be. If you are trying to swing around a giant 2h sword, it is going to be a bit difficult. If you want something faster, go with a lighter weapon.

As for innacurate -that is hogwash. Dark Souls combat is extremely deliberate and accurate. Come back and say that when you can parry/riposte, roll dodge, or backstab regularly. As for readjustable swings, that depends on the weapon and move.

Honestly, I would love it if a MODERATOR WOULD LOCK THIS THREAD.

Stop trying to run away.

Either 1. converse like an adult, or 2. let the thread die naturally.
 

Grimbones

Senior member
Jun 12, 2004
551
0
0
Patience (and caution) are skills. But it tests more than patience - it also test you ability to make a decent build, your ability to dodge/block/parry on time, your ability to observe, and you ability to stay calm in the face of suprises and seemingly overwhelming obstacles.



That is false as well. The combat is very precise and deliberate, just simply slower paced than Ninja Gaiden. The game's combat is meant to be somewhat more realistic, so you can't fly through the air spamming atacks with your katana.



That isn't even the problem. The problem is that you came in mouthing off like 'oh man Dark Souls sucks, who could like that crappy game?'. If you had approached in a different, non-hostile tone I am sure this thread would have went differently.



Lol stop being so dramatic.

Patience is not a skill. It's a personal attribute, you either have it or you don't. It's like being depressed, you're either depressed or you are not, you can train yourselves to have or avoid both, but there's no skill involved, only knowledge and understanding.

The combat is not precise at all. It's incredibly imprecise. It's deliberate i will grant you, but you don't feel like you are able to adjust, you are simply steering your character. I can dodge/block/parry, i can be patient, i am incredibly observational, i'm able to stay calm sometimes under pressure (though i'm getting older and it's less likely to happen because of that--also i call BS, because being completely blindsided by an attack that kills you requires no amount of calm, you're just dead). I have done everything you are mentioning, i just don't feel it's worth my time because of the frustration level required to continually do that, and then be humbled 30 seconds after you make progress past a point you previously died. Just not worth the effort involved.

Ninja Gaiden also had slower and more ponderous weapons, they just felt like they were locked onto your target a lot better. Again, it felt like the game UI helped you to stay on the best target, in DS they do not help you--which is fine, i guess that's the part of the game that everyone enjoys.

I came into this thread saying that DS sucks? I'll go reread my initial post, but i don't think i uttered that phrase once. I just did not understand why people enjoyed it, not that it sucked...like i've said it's masochistic and cruel, and i don't enjoy the popularity.

Finally, i was being realistic. If you don't want me to be realistic, that's too bad, because that's who i am, i am not going to BS you. I could call you just as dramatic since you're inlove with a game and when someone questions it in any way--however valid--you blatantly make up lies (like about me saying it sucked) in order to defend it.

Edit: I just did CNTRL+F and found usage of the word suck in 3 pages, and the first time it was used, it was by you...as i said, you are a liar. You are tearing down my argument and what i said to suit your argument, and you are wrong. I'm the non adult person? Give me a break.

Edit 2: Also, of the two of us, you are the one who has included personal attacks in your response, not me. I included statements that may have felt harsh, but they were not directed at you personally.
 
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