I don't think I have keystone jacks in my cat6 install...more like cheapstone.

[Red Squirrel]

Why would anyone use cat6 for phone? Ridiculous!

Expandability: can convert to ethernet in future if needed (ex: convert phone to a voip system)
Cheaper: only buy a reel of cat6 instead of buying phone cable too. I have a 1000ft reel of cat6 I bought when I moved into my house and I use that stuff for everything, even wiring sensors and other stuff that only require 2-3 wires. I have 500ft left in the box.


Papahogan, nice house! Reminds me when I first moved into mine, was such an exciting moment. It's incredible to walk around and think that it's yours. Even the normally most boring tasks like cleaning or organizing stuff seem so much more exciting at first.

 

[Papa Hogan]

It's REALLY exciting to come home to a nice new place. We lost the 2nd floor in a house fire in March, but the insurance paid to rebuild and we got a contractor that worked with us pretty well and did some upgrades...like central air and cat6, along with the new flooring downstairs, even though there was only a little water damage there. It feels like a new house! It's almost worth it to have a disaster. I'm just glad everyone got out ok.

 

[Papa Hogan]

What rate should I charge for the work I'm planning to do for my general contractor? I'm going to charge him parts and labor to replace the jacks and terminate them in the basement. I don't have any idea what the going rate is to set up 5 jacks as well as the cable tv screwup.

 

[Papa Hogan]

I'll just charge him 5 bucks an hour since I've never done this before and, let's face it, it is in my own house.

 

[Dstoop]

Not to totally de-rail the thread, but i'm moving into a new place soon and would like to have the whole place wired with cat5e jacks so it's not all over the floors It's literally been *years* since i've run any sort of cable and it was a huge PITA that I honestly have no desire to do again.

I've heard tons of horror stories just like this one where an electrician was hired to do datacomm work and did a really awful job of it because they don't actually know it and just assume "its all low voltage". So how do you go about finding a reputable, skilled local datacomm contractor? I'm a little leery of just cracking open the yellow pages and cold calling a company without any sort of references.

 

[Papa Hogan]

Angieslist.com would probably be a good place to start. I hear good things about that site on the radio, though I've never tried it myself. I think ScottMac uses it:

Fire your electrician, then sue him for the replacement costs. In the meantime, go to Angie's list and post a seriously negative review.

 

[frowertr]

I'll just charge him 5 bucks an hour since I've never done this before and, let's face it, it is in my own house.

Don't forget to charge him for the materials.

I still can't believe he thinks those are data jacks.

/shakes head

 

[Dstoop]

Angieslist.com would probably be a good place to start. I hear good things about that site on the radio, though I've never tried it myself. I think ScottMac uses it:

angieslist is unfortunately a pay service, and since it is so high profile i'm weary of a considerable level of astroturfing from contractors and companies despite the sites claims that you cant "pay to be on angieslist." There's nothing stopping Joe Contractor from investing a couple hundred bucks into accounts to post fake positive reviews and draw in business :/ There's gotta be a better way than playing Pin the Tail on the Yellowpages.

 

[ATF678]

I've seen that wall plate in Lowes. It is sold as an RJ45 Network wall plate and makes it easier to put in network jacks around the house without a punchdown tool and without keystones. The low price is what makes them very attractive to use.

http://www.cablesonline.com/1porrjivwalp.html

 

[frowertr]

I've seen that wall plate in Lowes. It is sold as an RJ45 Network wall plate and makes it easier to put in network jacks around the house without a punchdown tool and without keystones. The low price is what makes them very attractive to use.

http://www.cablesonline.com/1porrjivwalp.html

I think that is in the wrong category on that website. That is not a keystone face plate nor is it a service box yet it resides in that category on that site.

That is a telcom jack. If it is labeled as anything other then there is a misprint somewhere along the way.

I'll check Lowes tonight as I have to go there anyway.

 

[Papa Hogan]

well, the patch panel and cables came today, but alas! i'll be laid up probably til sunday, so i won't be able to straighten out the mess in the basement. wouldn't benefit me to hook it up anyway because i don't have the keystones and modular wall plates yet. i GOTTA remember to tell my contractor i need electric in conduit by the switch/router/modem so i can get rid of the extension cord.

 

[kevnich2]

Not to totally de-rail the thread, but i'm moving into a new place soon and would like to have the whole place wired with cat5e jacks so it's not all over the floors It's literally been *years* since i've run any sort of cable and it was a huge PITA that I honestly have no desire to do again.

I've heard tons of horror stories just like this one where an electrician was hired to do datacomm work and did a really awful job of it because they don't actually know it and just assume "its all low voltage". So how do you go about finding a reputable, skilled local datacomm contractor? I'm a little leery of just cracking open the yellow pages and cold calling a company without any sort of references.

Dont hire an electrician to install the data/phone wiring. Hire a telephone guy or an electrical company that actually specializes in data communications wiring. Most electricians i know have no idea about data wiring. They can run the wiring, sure, but terminating it properly is a different all game. To them its low voltage wiring. Find a telecom or communications company that does business phone systems, they will know howto handle the stuff.

 

[ScottMac]

Dont hire an electrician to install the data/phone wiring. Hire a telephone guy or an electrical company that actually specializes in data communications wiring. Most electricians i know have no idea about data wiring. They can run the wiring, sure, but terminating it properly is a different all game. To them its low voltage wiring. Find a telecom or communications company that does business phone systems, they will know howto handle the stuff.

Basically, I agree; someone more specialized is the way to go. However, many of the union electrician schools now include --proper-- installation of Category-rated cabling. So, it is possible to get a data-qualified electrician, but you need to ask if they've had the training.

The program has actually been running for years now, so they shouldn't be that rare, especially amongst the younger ones.

 

[Papa Hogan]

Ok. Now that I've had my coffee, it's time to get to work. Quick question: How much slack should I leave in the basement before the lines go into the patch panel? Electrician left about 10' down there. Should I cut some off or coil it up?

 

[drebo]

Ok. Now that I've had my coffee, it's time to get to work. Quick question: How much slack should I leave in the basement before the lines go into the patch panel? Electrician left about 10' down there. Should I cut some off or coil it up?

5 feet or so is a good service loop. Just coil it up nicely and hang it from a nail/hook on the wall above the patch panel.

General rule of thumb for hiring a data installer is to not hire them if they can't also certify the data runs.

The jacks in the OP would not have certified CAT6.

 

[Papa Hogan]

Well, I straightened out the rat's nest a bit...zip tied the coax up off the floor, and cut off the cat6 ends and punched them down to the patch panel, leaving about 5 or more feet for a service loop fastened with velcro.

Then I connected one of the cables to the patch panel and connected another wireless router to the jack in the dining room. Voila! This laptop actually connects to that router! I know because I have a different SSID for that router. So it turns out the electrician at least used a wiring pattern that the routers could understand.

I've still got to mount the panel to the wall and change out the wall jacks for keystones, but at least until then, my stepson can get on xbox live...that is if he can login. PITA microsoft heightened security on it and he wasn't able to login the other day.

 

[Carson Dyle]

So it turns out the electrician at least used a wiring pattern that the routers could understand.

I don't understand. If you reterminated one or more cables at the patch panel, then you must have used (possibly by luck) the same pattern he used at the jacks. I presume you followed the color codes on the patch panel and that you must have terminated the cable using one of either 568A or 568B. The important thing is that the both ends of the cable use the same wiring pattern.

Ideally, you should use the 568A pattern, as it's now the standard, and also because it allows you to use any wiring run for a one or two-line telephone simply by plugging a phone's four-wire RJ11 plug into the 8-wire network jack (and assuming that you can patch the other end of the run into your phone line).

 

[Papa Hogan]

I don't understand. If you reterminated one or more cables at the patch panel, then you must have used (possibly by luck) the same pattern he used at the jacks. I presume you followed the color codes on the patch panel and that you must have terminated the cable using one of either 568A or 568B. The important thing is that the both ends of the cable use the same wiring pattern.

Ideally, you should use the 568A pattern, as it's now the standard, and also because it allows you to use any wiring run for a one or two-line telephone simply by plugging a phone's four-wire RJ11 plug into the 8-wire network jack (and assuming that you can patch the other end of the run into your phone line).

I used the 568B pattern because I read in a number of different places that it's the standard for ethernet connections. Do you have sources saying that it's 568A?

I don't plan on installing a landline anytime soon, but if I do, I have an RJ11 jack in the kitchen only. Not sure how that one's wired as there's no color code on it either.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Perhaps not so much a standard, but a recommendation in the standard that was published back in 2001. 568B works equally well, albeit without the added advantage of being able to easily use the line for phones. If that's unimportant to you, then use either one.

TIA/EIA-568-B specifies that horizontal cables should be terminated using the T568A pin/pair assignments, or "optionally, per [T568B] if necessary to accommodate certain 8-pin cabling systems". Despite this instruction, many organizations continue to implement T568B for various reasons, chiefly associated with tradition (T568B is equivalent to AT&T 258A). The United States National Communication Systems Federal Telecommunications Recommendations do not recognize T568B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#T568A_and_T568B_termination

 

[ScottMac]

Perhaps not so much a standard, but a recommendation in the standard that was published back in 2001. 568B works equally well, albeit without the added advantage of being able to easily use the line for phones. If that's unimportant to you, then use either one.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#T568A_and_T568B_termination

Phones (line 1) use pins 4&5, which is ALWAYS the blue pair ... regardless of 568A or B.
Phones (line 2) use pins 3&6, which is either green or orange, and easily determined by casual observation.

It is a Bad Thing to use phones and Ethernet Data on the same jumper cable.

 

[imagoon]

Perhaps not so much a standard, but a recommendation in the standard that was published back in 2001. 568B works equally well, albeit without the added advantage of being able to easily use the line for phones. If that's unimportant to you, then use either one.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#T568A_and_T568B_termination

568B is the defacto standard. I mostly only see 568A in home installs done by the home owner. It works fine for phones.

 

[drebo]

I don't understand. If you reterminated one or more cables at the patch panel, then you must have used (possibly by luck) the same pattern he used at the jacks. I presume you followed the color codes on the patch panel and that you must have terminated the cable using one of either 568A or 568B. The important thing is that the both ends of the cable use the same wiring pattern.

Actually, one side being A and the other side being B, you've effectively created a crossover cable. Being that nearly everything now adays is auto-MDIX, most stuff will "just work". However, some older stuff, he'd have to use another crossover cable as a patch cord to flip it back to whichever standard was on the far side in order to get proper connectivity.

 

[kevnich2]

I don't understand. If you reterminated one or more cables at the patch panel, then you must have used (possibly by luck) the same pattern he used at the jacks. I presume you followed the color codes on the patch panel and that you must have terminated the cable using one of either 568A or 568B. The important thing is that the both ends of the cable use the same wiring pattern.

Ideally, you should use the 568A pattern, as it's now the standard, and also because it allows you to use any wiring run for a one or two-line telephone simply by plugging a phone's four-wire RJ11 plug into the 8-wire network jack (and assuming that you can patch the other end of the run into your phone line).

Whether it was A or B, any modern router/switch has auto negotiation. Even if one end was done with A and the other as B, while technically a crossover cable, with auto negotiation the switch would still pick up the link without a problem and work.

 

[Carson Dyle]

It is a Bad Thing to use phones and Ethernet Data on the same jumper cable.

I never suggested running both ethernet and phone on same run. Only that using 568A makes it possible to easily use the run for _either_ one.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Actually, one side being A and the other side being B, you've effectively created a crossover cable.

What?? No, do not do that.

If the jacks are wired 568B and the OP doesn't want to fiddle with the jacks yet, then yes, use 568B at the patch panel. However, if rewiring both, I would use 568A.