I dont think Michelle Carter will get any real punishment.

[dud]

And if a man had done it to a woman, would they feel the same way?

You bring up a good point. My opinion is no, the courts would have treated "him" differently, probably more severely.

The courts often treat males/females differently. Look at divorce, child custody, underage sex, etc. In the US the vast majority of alimony and child support payments are made by men, regardless of who was "at fault". In the US if you have sex with an underage person you are far more likely to be severely punished if you are male ... with female perpetrators getting off (typically) with a slap on the wrist.

There is little "equal" protection under the law in this country and the moment we accept it the sooner we can move on.

 

[Ackmed]

You bring up a good point. My opinion is no, the courts would have treated "him" differently, probably more severely.

The courts often treat males/females differently. Look at divorce, child custody, underage sex, etc. In the US the vast majority of alimony and child support payments are made by men, regardless of who was "at fault". In the US if you have sex with an underage person you are far more likely to be severely punished if you are male ... with female perpetrators getting off (typically) with a slap on the wrist.

There is little "equal" protection under the law in this country and the moment we accept it the sooner we can move on.

100% right, backed up by facts. Yet we never hear women's rights arguments being made to even this particular problem.

 

[SViscusi]

Agree.

David French made a similar argument:

"I see two serious problems with this verdict — one moral, the other legal.

First, Conrad Roy is responsible for his death. To argue that Carter committed manslaughter is to diminish Roy’s moral agency. It denies his free will.

It recognizes that Roy's moral agency was already compromised. He was suffering from a disease that inhibited his abilities to make rational decisions. There's a reason why is legal to for a doctor to place a hold on a someone who's a danger to themselves or others.

It’s wrong to deny compassion to someone so troubled that they’d attempt suicide, but we can’t move so far in the other direction that we race to find who’s “really” to blame when a person voluntarily takes their own life. It’s still an act of self-murder, and while Carter undoubtedly played a persuasive role, I can’t imagine where we will draw the line.

This boy had the mental health equivalent of laying in a ditch slowly bleeding out from a stab to the abdomen. This girl did the equivalent of standing beside him and urging him to plunge the knife further in so he died quicker.

The verdict doesn't deny compassion, quite the opposite actually. It recognizes depression as the disease, the wound, that it really is. It recognizes that someone who is so sick that the only way out they see is death, should be protected from those that take advantage of that.

Will we prosecute mean people for manslaughter when troubled teens kill themselves?

They're mentally ill and are treated that way. They tend to be unable to truly consent to their actions.

Second, there are real First Amendment implications with this verdict. Carter’s actions were reprehensible, but she was sharing with him thoughts and opinions that he may have found persuasive but had the capacity to reject. A legal argument that renders otherwise-protected speech unlawful because it actually persuades would blast a hole in First Amendment jurisprudence. "

She knew he was sick, she knew he had a desire to kill himself and she did everything she could to make sure that desire became a reality. She told him to kill himself, she could have helped him, she could have done any number of things that could have resulted in him getting treatment for his disease, she chose one of the ones that ensured his disease would kill him. We already recognize limits in speech mostly in regard to infringing on others safety all this does is clarify them and recognize the different levels of negligence.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Sentenced to 2 1/2 years.

 

[ch33zw1z]

30 months for psychopathic behaviors hardly seems fitting, but more than I expected.

 

[senseamp]

She is a naughty girl, but should never have been prosecuted. Opens a can of warms that shouldn't be opened.

 

[dainthomas]

She is a naughty girl, but should never have been prosecuted. Opens a can of warms that shouldn't be opened.

wrong

 

[UNCjigga]

I bet she's more upset that the judge barred her from profiting off of any book/TV/movie deals.

 

[JSt0rm]

unfortunate forehead girl got off easy

 

[Capt Caveman]

Bitch still shows no remorse.

 

[preCRT]

She deserved a longer sentence & should be locked up tonight.

 

[UberNeuman]

"YOU BRING GREAT SHAME TO THE KLINGON EMPIRE!!!"

 

[allisolm]

30 months for psychopathic behaviors hardly seems fitting, but more than I expected.

Is 15 months that doesn't have to be served until after her appeal is resolved more like what you expected?

"Carter was sentenced to two-and-a-half years, but all but 15 months of that sentence were suspended. However, her lawyer, Joseph Cataldo, said he plans to appeal her conviction, and Massachusetts Judge Lawrence Moniz agreed to stay her jail sentence until the appeal is resolved."

http://people.com/crime/michelle-carter-sentenced-suicide-texts-conrad-roy/

 

[ch33zw1z]

Is 15 months that doesn't have to be served until after her appeal is resolved more like what you expected?

"Carter was sentenced to two-and-a-half years, but all but 15 months of that sentence were suspended. However, her lawyer, Joseph Cataldo, said he plans to appeal her conviction, and Massachusetts Judge Lawrence Moniz agreed to stay her jail sentence until the appeal is resolved."

http://people.com/crime/michelle-carter-sentenced-suicide-texts-conrad-roy/

Pretty much, or all imprisonment spent in a mental health facility trying to fix her obvious socio/psycopathic behaviors.

 

[shortylickens]

Well, to be honest 15 months is way more than I expected. But since she may not actually do the time, (at least not in prison) I am yet to be impressed by the court system.

 

[bshole]

She is a naughty girl, but should never have been prosecuted. Opens a can of warms that shouldn't be opened.

Pretty much. Not criminally liable but certainly civilly liable.

 

[werepossum]

Well, to be honest 15 months is way more than I expected. But since she may not actually do the time, (at least not in prison) I am yet to be impressed by the court system.

In real terms, 15 months is probably equal to the time she's already served waiting to go through the metal detector each morning.

 

[J.Wilkins]

This sets a dangerous standard that I would not trust courts to hold up to any degree.

What if i told you to go kill yourself, am I then responsible for your death? How about my actions of leaving a woman and telling her that i don't care if she dies and after several phone calls get mad and tell her to just fucking do it and get it over with?

What if she says she doesn't want to kill herself as long as there is a chance and i tell her to just fucking do it because there is no chance?

Guilty of manslaughter? Where is this line drawn, per individual juries ideals on a case to case basis?

Yeah, she was a twat, no doubt about that but he killed himself, she didn't have a hand in it and his family did nothing what so ever. These things don't happen suddenly and while i loathe her I do believe that he was the one ultimately making the choice.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This sets a dangerous standard that I would not trust courts to hold up to any degree.

What if i told you to go kill yourself, am I then responsible for your death? How about my actions of leaving a woman and telling her that i don't care if she dies and after several phone calls get mad and tell her to just fucking do it and get it over with?

What if she says she doesn't want to kill herself as long as there is a chance and i tell her to just fucking do it because there is no chance?

Guilty of manslaughter? Where is this line drawn, per individual juries ideals on a case to case basis?

Yeah, she was a twat, no doubt about that but he killed himself, she didn't have a hand in it and his family did nothing what so ever. These things don't happen suddenly and while i loathe her I do believe that he was the one ultimately making the choice.

She ordered him to get back into the car for the CO poisoning.
Flip side what if a husband did that do his wife?

 

[J.Wilkins]

She ordered him to get back into the car for the CO poisoning.
Flip side what if a husband did that do his wife?

How did she "order" him to do anything? Did she physically force him or was she *allegedly* telling him what she wanted him to do through no force what so ever?

What if a husband was tired of his wife threatening to kill herself and told her that he think she should, is that an order, where is the line drawn?

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning her behaviour but at the same time I'm not sure that juries have the capability to determine where this line is drawn and who should be guilty and who should be not guilty of a crime in these situations.

I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with laymen making these kinds of decisions based on their own experiences that we all have.

I could see myself declaring her guilty in my 20's and not guilty today, those kinds of arbitrary judgements that we all make are mainly based on our own state of mind and I'd much prefer to leave her with board of experts that can properly assess it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

He was in the process of poisoning himself by a way she suggested. He was SMS/texting her as he did it. A point came up where he became afraid and left the car. She messaged him to get back in the car. Essentially saying you've been in pain and talking about this and it's the way to end it or something similar.

 

[J.Wilkins]

He was in the process of poisoning himself by a way she suggested. He was SMS/texting her as he did it. A point came up where he became afraid and left the car. She messaged him to get back in the car. Essentially saying you've been in pain and talking about this and it's the way to end it or something similar.

I am aware of all of this, where is the line drawn?

So if my ex calls me saying she's going to kill herself for the umpteenth time and i tell her to do it properly with a shotgun and she shoots herself in the face with a shotgun...

Do you not get the idea of drawing lines or do you think you are so good at drawing lines that you could determine who is guilty and who is not? If you don't think you're that good, who do you think is? A jury consisting of people like you?

It sets a dangerous precedent, that is what I'm arguing, not the case but the precedent it sets because once that is set, you can become guilty of thought crime by telling people what you think they should do even if you didn't really mean it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I am aware of all of this, where is the line drawn?

So if my ex calls me saying she's going to kill herself for the umpteenth time and i tell her to do it properly with a shotgun and she shoots herself in the face with a shotgun...

Do you not get the idea of drawing lines or do you think you are so good at drawing lines that you could determine who is guilty and who is not? If you don't think you're that good, who do you think is? A jury consisting of people like you?

It sets a dangerous precedent, that is what I'm arguing, not the case but the precedent it sets because once that is set, you can become guilty of thought crime by telling people what you think they should do even if you didn't really mean it.

The line is drawn when you start emailing her instructions of how to shoot herself in the face, provide her info where she can buy the shotgun and ammo with the explicit-ed purpose to shoot herself in the face and then when she messages you saying I have second thoughts about shooting myself in the face you need to reply shoot yourself in the face we'll all be much happier (or something similar)

Edit: it also needs to be obvious to any ordinary person that your GF has an obvious mental disorder too.

 

[J.Wilkins]

The line is drawn when you start emailing her instructions of how to shoot herself in the face, provide her info where she can buy the shotgun and ammo with the explicit-ed purpose to shoot herself in the face and then when she messages you saying I have second thoughts about shooting myself in the face you need to reply shoot yourself in the face we'll all be much happier (or something similar)

Edit: it also needs to be obvious to any ordinary person that your GF has an obvious mental disorder too.

Really, so if she e-mails me "should i use the 30-06 or the 12 gauge" and I respond, "use the 12 gauge you dumb twat" then i am guilty of manslaughter?

You still don't see my point of how this is blurrying a line that has never been crossed before, where suicide can be blamed on others where society see it fit to do so to get out of the idea that it's so bad that the person might have ended it on his or her own?

It's fine I guess, until you are the one on the stand and have people arguing that you are guilty of things that you never even considered.

Everyone who is going to kill themselves have a mental disorder per any psychologist of your choosing, apparently you can't be sane and off yourself if you are perfectly healthy otherwise. Depression is a mental illness, hell everything is out of normalcy these days if you need an expert witness and thus a mental illness.

Guy took his life, his family is pissed, expert witnesses testify and get paid, ex girlfriend tells him to get it over with...

Think a good lawyer could win that case after this precedent? I do.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Really, so if she e-mails me "should i use the 30-06 or the 12 gauge" and I respond, "use the 12 gauge you dumb twat" then i am guilty of manslaughter?

You still don't see my point of how this is blurrying a line that has never been crossed before, where suicide can be blamed on others where society see it fit to do so to get out of the idea that it's so bad that the person might have ended it on his or her own?

It's fine I guess, until you are the one on the stand and have people arguing that you are guilty of things that you never even considered.

Everyone who is going to kill themselves have a mental disorder per any psychologist of your choosing, apparently you can't be sane and off yourself if you are perfectly healthy otherwise. Depression is a mental illness, hell everything is out of normalcy these days if you need an expert witness and thus a mental illness.

Guy took his life, his family is pissed, expert witnesses testify and get paid, ex girlfriend tells him to get it over with...

Think a good lawyer could win that case after this precedent? I do.

In your example probably not because
1st It sounds like sarcasm
2nd your ex is not mentally ill
3rd you didn't explicitly send her info on how to do it
4th She never had second thoughts that you then shot down and said just do it.

*She researched and suggested means to him how to do it that is far beyond just saying something that got her into trouble.

We can go back and forth all night, there is a obvious line that was crossed jury and judge agreed. I'm sure there will be an appeal we'll see where it settles.