the whole Jesus died for our sins concept is basically just a guilt trip used to keep believers on the hook.
Yeah. The whole living in poverty as an itinerant teacher was clearly a poor choice on his part. It's a wonder anybody followed him. Must have had some compelling things to say.If I start a religion, I will try to get followers when I am alive so that I can take full advantage of the situation. This Jesus character doesn't sound very smart if he got himself killed/sacrificed. He should have been smart enough to avoid it.
Yeah. The whole living in poverty as an itinerant teacher was clearly a poor choice on his part. It's a wonder anybody followed him. Must have had some compelling things to say.
Nevermind dying for our sins. How the hell did Joseph fall for Mary's excuse lololol.
"Mary, it sure looks like you are pregnant? You're a virgin and we have never had sex?"
*Awkward Silence, where Mary remembers scream "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God" whilst being railed by her neighbor*
"Uh, Joseph, I don't know how to tell you this, but God made me pregnant."
*Mary waits in terror for the impending bitch slap because there is no way her husband could be stupid enough to believe her*
Joseph Says, "Seems Legit. Let's move to Bethlehem."
It is possible for females in other species to become pregnant without a father. It's not documented to happen in any humans that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't put it at the impossible level.
Nevermind dying for our sins. How the hell did Joseph fall for Mary's excuse lololol.
"Mary, it sure looks like you are pregnant? You're a virgin and we have never had sex?"
*Awkward Silence, where Mary remembers scream "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God" whilst being railed by her neighbor*
"Uh, Joseph, I don't know how to tell you this, but God made me pregnant."
*Mary waits in terror for the impending bitch slap because there is no way her husband could be stupid enough to believe her*
Joseph Says, "Seems Legit. Let's move to Bethlehem."
If I start a religion, I will try to get followers when I am alive so that I can take full advantage of the situation. This Jesus character doesn't sound very smart if he got himself killed/sacrificed. He should have been smart enough to avoid it.
WOW! So many misguided responses.
And WAY WAY WAY far too much over-analyzing of an answer so simple.
First... forget most of the biblical wording.
That has been so misinterpreted over the years.
Or twisted like pretzels to suit current society or ones personal beliefs of the moment.
The far right wing religious fanatics know that little game play all too well.
Not to mention the perverted side of misinterpretation. For example...
The bible has been interrupted to justify slavery.
The bible has been interrupted to justify bigotry.
The bible has been interrupted to justify mass murder. Just ask Hitler about that one.
No, the answer is so simple that most people, even so claimed highly religious people and scholars would miss this answer to the ops question.
Upon the cross, Christ cried out,
"forgive them for they know not what they do".
That is the correct answer.
Thats all.
The logic runs as such:
- God created humankind in perfect state, endowing them with free will because without free will there can be no love.
- Humankind chose to fuck it up, thereby introducing sin into the world and separating themselves from God.
- God, in his mercy, introduced a way to atone for sin through sacrifice (animal sacrifice, in this case.)
- This approach dictated a sort of 1:1 sin:animal ratio (because animals aren't all that awesome, I guess?)
- To instead substitute a once-and-for-all sacrifice something more mega and intense and awesome than animals was called for, so God totally perfect and sinless and not at all deserving of death, became incarnate
- And willingly died, undeserved. The act more than equaled out all the sins from ever, making it a simple matter of deciding to willingly accept that act on your behalf.
- Since you don't mess with perfection, death couldn't keep a good guy down. Three days, Cadbury eggs, yada yada and all that.
Not sarcastic, just removed from Christianese language.You may have said this in a sarcastic way, but truth is, that's about it,
You may have said this in a sarcastic way, but truth is, that's about it,
I like how the OP started a flame war and just left.
Why are humans the ones that want to be the all knowing? You can't and never will. Our design in this world makes it so. Who ever created the univeres is beyond all human intellect.
Fuzzybunny, there is a book coming out in September by the New York Times best selling author Bill O'reilly called killing Jesus, Look it up.
Bill O, what a great role model.I like how the OP started a flame war and just left.
Why are humans the ones that want to be the all knowing? You can't and never will. Our design in this world makes it so. Who ever created the univeres is beyond all human intellect.
Fuzzybunny, there is a book coming out in September by the New York Times best selling author Bill O'reilly called killing Jesus, Look it up.
I don't know if Jesus wanted to generate a cult to follow him. I guess it's possible.
Paul on the other hand...
As a previous Christian, I can verify that Christianity only makes sense if you go into it assuming it to be truthful and make sense. Or, rather, that if it doesn't make sense to a human, it's OK, because only God is supposed to truly understand..and Christians are fine rolling with that. But from an outside, logical, objective analysis, it and most other religions or religious-like beliefs (or "relationships", whatever) actually make zero sense. Of course, a religious person is almost always discouraged from even considering these outside views as serious or making true sense, so, really, both sides don't and can't understand or make sense of "the other side."
The real question I have is this: Why would God give us free will knowing full well every action that would occur in the future and then choose to punish us for that? If you say God didn't know what would happen, then you don't actually have a God, because God is clearly defined as being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.
So, God had to have known full well than humans would sin down to every last detail in the event. Of course, if God knows everything that will happen, how do we have free will? We would perceive ourselves as having free will, but God, being outside of time (according to what I was taught), would be able to see the entirety of humanity's existence.
I'm also suspending logic here, because God is apparently outside of time, yet God clearly acts within "our" time according to the Bible. So, let's ignore than inconsistency. Even then, our perception of time and free will would be more akin to an illusion than anything else.
So, in this case, humans wouldn't have free will, or at least not truly free will (which I'd argue is the only kind of free will). Our entire existence would have already been predetermined. So, God would have known we would sin no matter what. In a sense, it would more appear that he is at fault for us sinning, as he was the one that laid this path out for us (or, at least, saw the path in its entirety from the beginning and did nothing about it otherwise).
No free will. God knew we would sin and did nothing about it even though he is against sin. God still chooses to punish us with Hell if we don't repent. Why? How can that seem anything other than petty, unreasonable, and illogical to anyone? It just shouldn't make any sense at all, period.
Imagine if God were instead a computer programmer, and humans are just AI implemented in one of many worlds. The whole notion of sin and punishment for it would be akin to the programmer knowing full well he left bugs in the AI code, knowing that it would cause unwanted results from the AI, and yet still getting angry at his own doing as though it was the AI's fault from the very beginning.
God is no god at all.
I follow everything you said but I don't get why god being all knowing stops us from having free will? Just because he knows what's going to happen doesn't prevent us from acting freely.
Because he knows what we're going to do before we do it? Therefore, you were always going to do it that way.I follow everything you said but I don't get why god being all knowing stops us from having free will? Just because he knows what's going to happen doesn't prevent us from acting freely.
Because he knows what we're going to do before we do it? Therefore, you were always going to do it that way.