I don't understand the Jesus died for our sins thing.

[WHAMPOM]

I have this question pop up in my head from time to time but I always forget to ask it.

So, "Jesus died for our sins."

I don't see what the sacrifice is though. Let's just assume:

Jesus is the son of God.
There IS Heaven (paradise).
Jesus, when he passes from the mortal earth, goes to Heaven to be with his father.
Heaven, by all accounts, is better than the mortal earth.

Um, so except for the excruciating way in which he died, I'm not seeing a big sacrifice?

I hear people say that God sacrificed his only son. Well, no, he doesn't appear to have sacrificed anything, right? His son still exists. In fact, his son is now closer to him and in a much better place.

What am I missing here? I have to be missing a lot.

Religion~logic does not apply. Just think guilt trip thought up by the shysters to bring in the suckers.

 

[blankslate]

Yeah, he should've been killing others for their sins...

 

[MrDudeMan]

There's plenty of logic involved, but most of the actual events and relevant pieces of information aren't posted in this thread. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything, but most of the anti-christian responses in this thread are far dumber than many of you realize. It's equivalent to having a discussion about wave theory with people who know literally nothing about physics. Don't get hung up on any scientific bullshit - it's just an analogy - but it's valid in the sense that there are pieces of information that require a conceptual understanding to actually make sense. You don't have to agree that it ultimately makes any sense, but, in the frame of reference being discussed, it does, in fact, make sense. Saying anything else simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of very, very smart people believe all different kinds of religious concepts that most people here would laugh and scoff at as if they were superior when in fact they're just ignorant. The parts you can easily disagree with are more obvious. This is a deep dive that isn't even possible to accurately discuss without much more knowledge than most of you have. I'm not saying you should have it; I'm simply saying you don't, which is completely fine if that's what you want.


/flamesuit

 

[grrl]

Posting.

 

[Franz316]

The whole dying for your sins thing makes absolutely no sense at all. I went to Catholic elementary school and this stuff never made sense to me, even when I was a kid. I used to ask the teacher why Jesus was talking to god; if Jesus was also god, and I was told to not ask so many questions.

Actually, all religions are full of outlandish mythology, which once you think about, is an insult to your intelligence.

You want even more ridiculousness? How about the fabled holy spirit which is somehow part of Jesus and god but still acts on its own? Or how about communion and the wine. Some guy waves his hands over bread and wine and suddenly I am eating someone's flesh and blood!? Seriously, WTF is up with that!? Meanwhile, ask a Catholic if he has ever seen a pig fly and he'll tell you you're crazy.

Christianity and Islam is all about condemnation, punishment, prosecution and fear. I guess some people are just gluttons for punishment and and need something to guide them. That's fine, I don't care.

You want a real god? Worship the sun. It is literally the source of all life.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

There's plenty of logic involved, but most of the actual events and relevant pieces of information aren't posted in this thread. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything, but most of the anti-christian responses in this thread are far dumber than many of you realize. It's equivalent to having a discussion about wave theory with people who know literally nothing about physics. Don't get hung up on any scientific bullshit - it's just an analogy - but it's valid in the sense that there are pieces of information that require a conceptual understanding to actually make sense. You don't have to agree that it ultimately makes any sense, but, in the frame of reference being discussed, it does, in fact, make sense. Saying anything else simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of very, very smart people believe all different kinds of religious concepts that most people here would laugh and scoff at as if they were superior when in fact they're just ignorant. The parts you can easily disagree with are more obvious. This is a deep dive that isn't even possible to accurately discuss without much more knowledge than most of you have. I'm not saying you should have it; I'm simply saying you don't, which is completely fine if that's what you want.


/flamesuit

Yes, plenty of very, very smart people have all sorts of different, contradicting religious beliefs. Meaning that many of them MUST be wrong because their beliefs contradict each other, which means their beliefs are in fact bullshit and as ridiculous as they appear, and so we high and mighty ignorant people rightfully laugh and scoff at them.

 

[sandorski]

There's plenty of logic involved, but most of the actual events and relevant pieces of information aren't posted in this thread. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything, but most of the anti-christian responses in this thread are far dumber than many of you realize. It's equivalent to having a discussion about wave theory with people who know literally nothing about physics. Don't get hung up on any scientific bullshit - it's just an analogy - but it's valid in the sense that there are pieces of information that require a conceptual understanding to actually make sense. You don't have to agree that it ultimately makes any sense, but, in the frame of reference being discussed, it does, in fact, make sense. Saying anything else simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of very, very smart people believe all different kinds of religious concepts that most people here would laugh and scoff at as if they were superior when in fact they're just ignorant. The parts you can easily disagree with are more obvious. This is a deep dive that isn't even possible to accurately discuss without much more knowledge than most of you have. I'm not saying you should have it; I'm simply saying you don't, which is completely fine if that's what you want.


/flamesuit

An explanation of the Theology involved does not equal Logical reasons. AKA, the "Logic" only holds up if all the Assumptions are true. That's where it gets farcical, the Assumptions necessary are convoluted and defeat themselves.

 

[Red Squirrel]

In simple terms, this is how it works: Heaven is a place where no sin exists, so anyone who has sinned even once cannot go. God does not want people to all go to hell but because of this dilemma something had to be done. Started off with burnt offerings and stuff, but this was quite crude. (Old testament)

Eventually Jesus came down to Earth for the purpose of spreading the gospel, fulfill the prophecies in the old testament as well as to take our place on the cross. He took all our sins, past, present, and future and died on the cross bearing those sins, and brought them to hell. We are now clean, but we simply have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus, to make it official.

If you are serious about this try to find a church that is Born Again Christian (not a religion, just straight up Christian) and ask questions to the elders. You can also talk to local Christians you may know to ask questions or find out what church they go to.

 

[Alienwho]

99.99999% of people (including christian leadership) have no idea why the jesus dying for your sins thing works. They just accept it.

I understand why it works, and it actually makes perfect sense.

 

[sandorski]

In simple terms, this is how it works: Heaven is a place where no sin exists, so anyone who has sinned even once cannot go. God does not want people to all go to hell but because of this dilemma something had to be done. Started off with burnt offerings and stuff, but this was quite crude. (Old testament)

Eventually Jesus came down to Earth for the purpose of spreading the gospel, fulfill the prophecies in the old testament as well as to take our place on the cross. He took all our sins, past, present, and future and died on the cross bearing those sins, and brought them to hell. We are now clean, but we simply have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus, to make it official.

If you are serious about this try to find a church that is Born Again Christian (not a religion, just straight up Christian) and ask questions to the elders. You can also talk to local Christians you may know to ask questions or find out what church they go to.

..iow, a religion(u were supposed to say "Relationship", not that it changes anything)

 

[Red Squirrel]

Relationship works too, and yeah probably is the better word. The word Christian tends to be thrown around and loosely used now days.

 

[Slew Foot]

Religious people are stupid and their crap isnt supposed to make sense.

 

[ahenkel]

Do we get religion threads a lot because of anadtech.com?

 

[mizzou]

In the words of prayer or whatever, they say ALL have sinned. This is truth.

Jesus died for our sins.

Yet we still sin, but because he died, we don't have to like...worry about it as much.

And some stuff.

 

[Via]

Translation: every good thing you have - someone suffered for your ability to have that thing.

Don't feel good about that good thing you have.




And - send money.

 

[Binarycow]

There's plenty of logic involved, but most of the actual events and relevant pieces of information aren't posted in this thread. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything, but most of the anti-christian responses in this thread are far dumber than many of you realize. It's equivalent to having a discussion about wave theory with people who know literally nothing about physics. Don't get hung up on any scientific bullshit - it's just an analogy - but it's valid in the sense that there are pieces of information that require a conceptual understanding to actually make sense. You don't have to agree that it ultimately makes any sense, but, in the frame of reference being discussed, it does, in fact, make sense. Saying anything else simply means you don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of very, very smart people believe all different kinds of religious concepts that most people here would laugh and scoff at as if they were superior when in fact they're just ignorant. The parts you can easily disagree with are more obvious. This is a deep dive that isn't even possible to accurately discuss without much more knowledge than most of you have. I'm not saying you should have it; I'm simply saying you don't, which is completely fine if that's what you want.


/flamesuit

I am not flaming you here but one just cannot obtain logic from pure bullshit. It doesnt work like that. Its what software programmers call "garbage in, garbage out".

For whatever its worth, I do daily do my best to follow Jesus' teachings. Jesus as a philosopher. Not the rest of the fantastical bullshits that you have to lie to yourself in order to swallow it.

 

[John Connor]

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That's all you need to know.

 

[Via]

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That's all you need to know.

If you can explain every aspect of that verse in current day English I might just convert.

 

[Binarycow]

In simple terms, this is how it works: Heaven is a place where no sin exists, so anyone who has sinned even once cannot go. God does not want people to all go to hell but because of this dilemma something had to be done. Started off with burnt offerings and stuff, but this was quite crude. (Old testament)

Eventually Jesus came down to Earth for the purpose of spreading the gospel, fulfill the prophecies in the old testament as well as to take our place on the cross. He took all our sins, past, present, and future and died on the cross bearing those sins, and brought them to hell. We are now clean, but we simply have to ask forgiveness and accept Jesus, to make it official.

If you are serious about this try to find a church that is Born Again Christian (not a religion, just straight up Christian) and ask questions to the elders. You can also talk to local Christians you may know to ask questions or find out what church they go to.

why the hell should I assume that heaven and hell exist as facts to begin with so I can base the rest of my story on it?

basically, people just made up a bunch of crap to hold the poors down, to give them (false) hopes so they wouldnt occasionally raise and strangle the few rich who ride on their heads. the rest of the story is then based on these so called facts and you cant argue with any of it since it's supposed to be a mystery.

you know, what makes you think that church elders or anyone else currently alive or already dead would know anything about any of this? Next time, you ask them what they will have for lunch 2 weeks from now. Im willing to bet none of them would have a definite answer for you much less shit that are supposed to have happened eons ago.

 

[Binarycow]

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That's all you need to BELIEVE

I fixed that for you. Dont mistake faith for fact.

 

[ShagglestheLion]

the truth in knowing Jesus Christ is that you have to know

that you aren't Jesus Christ.

he's no Jesus Christ.

I am not Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ died 2000 years ago on the cross for us,

so that we may have eternal life.

we, even I, sometimes, need to put down my ego

and just accept today.

and know that personal finance issues, or family issues,
or pharmaceuticals, or relationships or friendly problems,

will all work themselves out in the end.

if you are willing to just accept that you are not the second coming of the messiah.

and neither am I.

Jesus Christ is.

 

[Via]

the truth in knowing Jesus Christ is that you have to know

that you aren't Jesus Christ.

he's no Jesus Christ.

I am not Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ died 2000 years ago on the cross for us,

so that we may have eternal life.

we, even I, sometimes, need to put down my ego

and just accept today.

and know that personal finance issues, or family issues,
or pharmaceuticals, or relationships or friendly problems,

will all work themselves out in the end.

if you are willing to just accept that you are not the second coming of the messiah.

and neither am I.

Jesus Christ is.

Is this a Christian rock song?

Are you trying to get me to debate a Christian rock song?

 

[Broheim]

what I don't understand about christianity is that they keep trying to pass off christmas as something christian.

 

[hans030390]

As a previous Christian, I can verify that Christianity only makes sense if you go into it assuming it to be truthful and make sense. Or, rather, that if it doesn't make sense to a human, it's OK, because only God is supposed to truly understand..and Christians are fine rolling with that. But from an outside, logical, objective analysis, it and most other religions or religious-like beliefs (or "relationships", whatever) actually make zero sense. Of course, a religious person is almost always discouraged from even considering these outside views as serious or making true sense, so, really, both sides don't and can't understand or make sense of "the other side."

The real question I have is this: Why would God give us free will knowing full well every action that would occur in the future and then choose to punish us for that? If you say God didn't know what would happen, then you don't actually have a God, because God is clearly defined as being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.

So, God had to have known full well than humans would sin down to every last detail in the event. Of course, if God knows everything that will happen, how do we have free will? We would perceive ourselves as having free will, but God, being outside of time (according to what I was taught), would be able to see the entirety of humanity's existence.

I'm also suspending logic here, because God is apparently outside of time, yet God clearly acts within "our" time according to the Bible. So, let's ignore than inconsistency. Even then, our perception of time and free will would be more akin to an illusion than anything else.

So, in this case, humans wouldn't have free will, or at least not truly free will (which I'd argue is the only kind of free will). Our entire existence would have already been predetermined. So, God would have known we would sin no matter what. In a sense, it would more appear that he is at fault for us sinning, as he was the one that laid this path out for us (or, at least, saw the path in its entirety from the beginning and did nothing about it otherwise).

No free will. God knew we would sin and did nothing about it even though he is against sin. God still chooses to punish us with Hell if we don't repent. Why? How can that seem anything other than petty, unreasonable, and illogical to anyone? It just shouldn't make any sense at all, period.

Imagine if God were instead a computer programmer, and humans are just AI implemented in one of many worlds. The whole notion of sin and punishment for it would be akin to the programmer knowing full well he left bugs in the AI code, knowing that it would cause unwanted results from the AI, and yet still getting angry at his own doing as though it was the AI's fault from the very beginning.

God is no god at all.

 

[Via]

It took me twenty minutes to figure out that this was nonsense.

You win.


But who does your god love? Does he love you?