I don't understand USA patriotism

[J.Wilkins]

Guys, do you really think it's productive to engage in a pissing contest over past history, trying to prove which western imperialist nations were the most destructive? The world is complex and rarely is a single actor responsible for every bad development in a given region. This kind of discussion isn't constructive. We're better off arguing over what we should or shouldn't do in the future.

Actually it's not but this started by me pointing out the result of politics and others whining about ancient stuff as some sort of reply to that which is indeed irrelevant.

The sad part is that no one here or anywhere else will learn anything because the US historical indoctrination is utterly complete, you haven't done a single thing wrong at any point in time, you are the saviours and the great guys at all times.

Meanwhile, every other nation learns history as is. We all know the colonial past of the UK and bringing that up isn't a problem but you mention that puritans actually went on the Mayflower to hang and dismember people they didn't like rather than to escape persecution and you get.... Buh... Buh... BRITAIN DID BAD THINGS TOO!

In the end, a history lesson that is not accepted is not productive so I think you're right, Americans are not fit to deal with the horrid bullshit their own nation was founded on.

 

[Puffnstuff]

In the end, a history lesson that is not accepted is not productive so I think you're right, Americans are not fit to deal with the horrid bullshit their own nation was founded on.

We got tired of being unfairly taxed to pay for yours.

 

[J.Wilkins]

I'm talking about the actual INVASION of Iran, which the Brits and Soviets did in 1941. Yeah dummy, I said it was the Brits and the Soviets because IT WAS. What a fucking moron you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran

The Brits wanted Iran's oil, so you made up an excuse (falsely accused Iran's leaders of being Nazi sympathizers- hey, how History does repeat itself!) and then invaded and set up the Shah. Here it all is for you because I KNOW you're too stupid to read:
----
The British began to accuse Iran of supporting Nazism and being pro-German.[2] Although Reza Shah declared neutrality at an early stage of the Second World War, Iran assumed greater strategic importance to the British government, which feared that the Abadan Refinery (of the UK-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company) might fall into German hands; producing eight million tons of oil in 1940, the refinery was a crucial part of the Allied war effort.[2][5] Tensions with Iran had been strained since 1931 when the Shah cancelled the D'Arcy Concession, which gave the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company the exclusive right to sell Iranian oil, with Iran receiving only 10 percent (possibly 16 percent) of the revenue[6] or of the profits.[2][4]


Though Iran was neutral, the Allies considered Reza Shah to be friendly to the Axis powers, deposed him during the subsequent occupation and replaced him with his young son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.[2]
-----




You mean the way you ignored (because you had no knowledge of) the actual invasion under false pretenses where your nation created the whole situation in the first place! You illustrated my point how your country pretty much is the cause of many of the conflicts in the region- including the whole Israel conflict. But by all means- keep ignoring your own county's ROTTEN history and keep blaming the US for everything.


I'll just leave this here, because actually now I'm curious how a total Brit moron spins all that as America's fault too. Have at it! Should prove for some truly entertaining revisionist drivel!

No, kid, unlike the US we accept our past, you will never accept yours and that is the very problem.

The mandate for Palestine was an effort dismantled by the UN, we didn't do that and we sure as hell didn't start wars to kill Jews or try to ensure their deaths (like the US). We gave up the land and what happened after that isn't up to us. Even with the support of the US the neighbouring countries couldn't fight Israel.

Now you play pretend that you give a fuck about Jews while supporting Wahabbism which is the actual point here, current events.

You are having a fun time condemning Iran and Tchad while the Wahabbis of SA and Sudan, the most terrorist ridden nations on earth are your dear friends and you want me to go ancient history? How about you go fuck yourselves with your retarded politics that always led to more bloody wars enriching the targeted groups that got the people elected?

I know you are not one of them, but you are so stupid that you still support it because you are so fucked up in the skull that you are not politically inclined at all, you are conditioned. Like a dog.

 

[J.Wilkins]

We got tired of being unfairly taxed to pay for yours.

That's also not true, at all.

You got sick and tired of not being able to murder whoever your nobles wanted murdered.

 

[realibrad]

Actually it's not but this started by me pointing out the result of politics and others whining about ancient stuff as some sort of reply to that which is indeed irrelevant.

The sad part is that no one here or anywhere else will learn anything because the US historical indoctrination is utterly complete, you haven't done a single thing wrong at any point in time, you are the saviours and the great guys at all times.

Meanwhile, every other nation learns history as is. We all know the colonial past of the UK and bringing that up isn't a problem but you mention that puritans actually went on the Mayflower to hang and dismember people they didn't like rather than to escape persecution and you get.... Buh... Buh... BRITAIN DID BAD THINGS TOO!

In the end, a history lesson that is not accepted is not productive so I think you're right, Americans are not fit to deal with the horrid bullshit their own nation was founded on.

Lol oh the irony.

So you are angry because you think its okay to bash the UK because of its history, but not okay to bash the US for its mistakes. We learn about US mistakes too. Slavery is a very big part of the education we get. What we did to the Native Americans was also a big part of my education. Its so funny that you cant realize the double standard you have taken.

That said, if you want to compare country to country, then the US has a lot of catching up to do compared to your country.

 

[realibrad]

No, kid, unlike the US we accept our past, you will never accept yours and that is the very problem.

The mandate for Palestine was an effort dismantled by the UN, we didn't do that and we sure as hell didn't start wars to kill Jews or try to ensure their deaths (like the US).

WTF. When did the US try to kill Jews and or ensure their deaths?

We gave up the land and what happened after that isn't up to us. Even with the support of the US the neighbouring countries couldn't fight Israel.

Now you play pretend that you give a fuck about Jews while supporting Wahabbism which is the actual point here, current events.

You are having a fun time condemning Iran and Tchad while the Wahabbis of SA and Sudan, the most terrorist ridden nations on earth are your dear friends and you want me to go ancient history? How about you go fuck yourselves with your retarded politics that always led to more bloody wars enriching the targeted groups that got the people elected?

I know you are not one of them, but you are so stupid that you still support it because you are so fucked up in the skull that you are not politically inclined at all, you are conditioned. Like a dog.

You might be in the top 5 of hateful people on this forum.

 

[J.Wilkins]

WTF. When did the US try to kill Jews and or ensure their deaths?

When they turned away Jewish refugees coming by ships during the 1940's and when you had agents sink refugee ships in Italian harbours during that same time?

When you did business with Germany all through the war? When Ford motor company used slave labour in Germany to build cars?

Do I really fucking need to go on?

You might be in the top 5 of hateful people on this forum.

Of course I am, because pointing out actual facts to those that grew up learning how fantastic their nation is is absolute hatred...

Same reason why the Nazis and the antifa hate me, because you retards can keep it up but in the end, liberals prevail because individual freedom is the only reason for the west to exist in the first place. It's kinda sad that your ancestors produced an utter piece of shit like you, so stupid that you cannot even understand why punching a Nazi is a good thing.

 

[realibrad]

When they turned away Jewish refugees coming by ships during the 1940's and when you had agents sink refugee ships in Italian harbours during that same time?

When you did business with Germany all through the war? When Ford motor company used slave labour in Germany to build cars?

Do I really fucking need to go on?





Of course I am, because pointing out actual facts to those that grew up learning how fantastic their nation is is absolute hatred...

Same reason why the Nazis and the antifa hate me, because you retards can keep it up but in the end, liberals prevail because individual freedom is the only reason for the west to exist in the first place. It's kinda sad that your ancestors produced an utter piece of shit like you, so stupid that you cannot even understand why punching a Nazi is a good thing.

You said this...

"we sure as hell didn't start wars to kill Jews or try to ensure their deaths (like the US)."

When did the US start a war(s) to kill Jews or send them to their deaths? Saying the US turned away Jews is not the same as starting a war. As for sinking Jewish ships, are you talking about Operation Embarrass?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So, if you have 3 billion in aid, and multiply that by 13, you get 39 billion in aid. The US in the Lend-Lease act gave 43-50 billion and in return collected about 8 billion. That is a net loss for the US of 35 to 42 billion dollars in 1945 dollars.

This is aid expense which is what we are talking about.

Canadian aid during the war was 3.5 billion, which was forgiven
After the war they lent 1 billion
4.5 x 13= 58.5
1 x 13= 13 paid back
Canada was out 45 billion in 1945 bucks

 

[J.Wilkins]

You said this...

"we sure as hell didn't start wars to kill Jews or try to ensure their deaths (like the US)."

When did the US start a war(s) to kill Jews or send them to their deaths? Saying the US turned away Jews is not the same as starting a way. As for sinking Jewish ships, are you talking about Operation Embarrass?

Yes, sending them back or sinking the refugee ships was an attempt to ensure their deaths.

How the fuck is this even a discussion, that was the goal. The US supported the Nazi effort to kill Jews in every possible way you could until you didn't have a fucking choice.

 

[realibrad]

Canadian aid during the war was 3.5 billion, which was forgiven
After the war they lent 1 billion
4.5 x 13= 58.5
1 x 13= 13 paid back
Canada was out 45 billion in 1945 bucks

We were talking about during the war. If you want to talk about post war aid, then the American value needs to go up. Also, post your sources, because I have found nowhere that says all 3.5 billion was forgiven.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why spend the time to reply and not answer the question?

Dude, you're not following the discussion. One last time, follow the trail of the little arrows in the replies.

 

[realibrad]

Yes, sending them back or sinking the refugee ships was an attempt to ensure their deaths.

How the fuck is this even a discussion, that was the goal. The US supported the Nazi effort to kill Jews in every possible way you could until you didn't have a fucking choice.

What are you talking about in terms of sinking a ship. The only time I know of that happening was done by your country not mine. Nobody knew that sending back the ships would mean your country would sink them.

 

[J.Wilkins]

We were talking about during the war. If you want to talk about post war aid, then the American value needs to go up. Also, post your sources, because I have found nowhere that says all 3.5 billion was forgiven.

There is something severely wrong with your brain, isn't there?

 

[J.Wilkins]

What are you talking about in terms of sinking a ship. The only time I know of that happening was done by your country not mine. Nobody knew that sending back the ships would mean your country would sink them.

In terms of sinking the refugee ships in Italian harbours? Well I'm talking about just that.

And it was the US that did that, it was also the US that turned down those vessels before they started doing that.

But hey, surely the UK were in bed with Nazi Germany too, while fighting a war that the US was not involved in but profited heavily from and helped facilitate through industry and products.

Next up, the UK WAS Nazi Germany and Captain America was the true patriot, you know that because you read it in a comic book which is just as good as facts....

Go back to third grade history kid and leave me the fuck alone.

 

[Orignal Earl]

We were talking about during the war. If you want to talk about post war aid, then the American value needs to go up. Also, post your sources, because I have found nowhere that says all 3.5 billion was forgiven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Canada gave Britain gifts totaling $3.5 billion during the war, plus a zero-interest loan of $1 billion
Canada also loaned $1.2 billion on a long-term basis to Britain immediately after the war; these loans were fully repaid in late 2006

 

[J.Wilkins]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Canada was a dear friend in our time of need, their efforts allowed us to build shelters to protect the innocent and to keep our economy rolling even when our main industries were bombed.

We owe Canada a great deal, more than money and when the time comes we will repay that debt.

The US did the same thing but for Germany.

 

[realibrad]

In terms of sinking the refugee ships in Italian harbours? Well I'm talking about just that.

And it was the US that did that, it was also the US that turned down those vessels before they started doing that.

But hey, surely the UK were in bed with Nazi Germany too, while fighting a war that the US was not involved in but profited heavily from and helped facilitate through industry and products.

Next up, the UK WAS Nazi Germany and Captain America was the true patriot, you know that because you read it in a comic book which is just as good as facts....

Go back to third grade history kid and leave me the fuck alone.

Cite what you are talking about. As far as I know, the only time Jewish refugee ships were sunk was done by your country. Look up Operation Embarrass. If you are talking about Operation Embarrass, then it appears you have your country mixed up with mine, as it was MI6 that sunk those Jewish refugee ships. The US turned away refugee ships, but I know of no time that the US sunk them.

 

[brianmanahan]

Yes, sending them back or sinking the refugee ships was an attempt to ensure their deaths.

i thought that was a british MI6 thing:

In 1947, British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) launched Operation Embarrass, a clandestine operation to blow up ships in Italian ports that were preparing to take Jewish refugees to Palestine, by having operatives attach limpet mines to the hulls of vessels. From summer 1947 to early 1948, five such attacks were carried out, destroying one ship and damaging two others. Two other British mines were discovered before they detonated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewis...ne#British_restrictions_on_Jewish_immigration

 

[Puffnstuff]

That's also not true, at all.

You got sick and tired of not being able to murder whoever your nobles wanted murdered.

I love it when a foreigner tells me what I'm supposed to believe about my own country. You're pissing into the wind buddy.

 

[BoomerD]

WTF. When did the US try to kill Jews and or ensure their deaths?



You might be in the top 5 of hateful people on this forum.

I can't be sure, but as I mentioned earlier...I suspect this is a John of Sheffield reboot...there's just a certain something about the posting style......

 

[Greenman]

I can't be sure, but as I mentioned earlier...I suspect this is a John of Sheffield reboot...there's just a certain something about the posting style......

Obnoxious, ill informed, hateful, lire, smug, self important, I think that's the certain something you're talking about. While those are pretty common traits in this section, the oaf in question presents them as a text book case.

 

[realibrad]

Its amazing that he can claim the US did something to show that his country was not as bad as us, and it turns out his evidence is the UK doing that thing, and not the US. It was not the US that sunk Jewish refugee ships, it was the UK that did that. So as it turns out its not the evil US, but the evil UK that did it. Stupid people.

The US of WWII is not the same country of today, but that does not change history. Had the US not gotten involved in WWII, Germany would control all of Europe and big parts of Asia. Japan would control all of Asia. It is fact that the US was the biggest reason Axis was defeated. That does not excuse anything bad the US does, but the current problems the US has does not change the historical facts either.

 

[BigDH01]

The US of WWII is not the same country of today, but that does not change history. Had the US not gotten involved in WWII, Germany would control all of Europe and big parts of Asia. Japan would control all of Asia. It is fact that the US was the biggest reason Axis was defeated. That does not excuse anything bad the US does, but the current problems the US has does not change the historical facts either.

That's assertion of fact is probably a little extreme, at least in Europe. The war in Europe was really an eastern front war. By the time of D-Day, the Soviet Union had already retaken Ukraine and were were knocking at the door in the Baltic. Far more men, on both sides, were expended in the east https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...military-deaths-in-Europe-by-theater-year.png.

You might be able to make the claim that the US did all the supplying, which is true to some extent. The Soviets mostly won the ground war with the famed T-34 (and countless men) and that was made in the SU, but perhaps with resources freed because they didn't have to make trucks and trains.

In the pacific, China actually lost more men than the US although you could claim the US had a larger impact. But it's probably unlikely Japan could've hoped for anything more than white peace after Pearl Harbor. http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

 

[Puffnstuff]

I think that the entirety of this threads points to Mayne still attempting to deflect attention from himself after being caught in the HOV lane with blow up dolls for passengers. When stopped its reported that he told the officer that his occupants were full of hot air but that he was trying to deflate their egos. Will we ever know the truth in this matter?